My review of our Quarterbacks as the season begins.

[Bert]

Well the season is FINALLY upon us and the roster has really taken shape over the last week. After much controversy, speculation and confusion Derek Anderson, Max Hall and John Skelton are the three QB’s for our Arizona Cardinals. It’s been such a whirlwind over the last month with all the Leinart drama and so much has been said, so I thought I would just start a thread so we can organize our thoughts about how the QB situation really looks and spare all the overreaction and hype
.
So without further ado, here are my thoughts about our QB's:

#3 John Skelton – Rookie – Fordham
6’5 250

While Skelton did play for a small school (I-AA) he still played very well. He set school records for career completions (802), yards (9,923) and touchdowns (69) and passed for 3,708 yards as a senior. Skeltons physical tools are absolutely perfect for a prototype NFL QB. His arm strength is also exceptional. The drawback with Skelton is that he is as raw as they come. Going from Div I-AA to the NFL is going to take some adjustments. He’s definitely slow out on the field both with his feet and his reads. Skelton has POTENTIAL though. He has all the tools he just needs time to develop and I think we might have an exceptional NFL QB on the bench.

#2 Max Hall – Rookie – BYU
6’1 205

Ok first of all, there is a lot of hype around Max Hall right now. Mark Asher on GAMBO AND ASH has been praising him since the first day of training camp. He played well in the preseason and a lot of fans are on board. I see flashes of excitement from the kid but I am not willing to go all-in with the hype just yet. He’s still limited by his size and inevitably will struggle with getting passes over defenders who are getting taller every year. That being said, Hall is definitely a spark plug out there.

As a senior at BYU, Hall broke Ty Detmer’s record for the most wins by a starting quarterback with 32 career victories. He led BYU to 11-2 record, including 3-1 mark against nationally ranked teams, a #12 final ranking and a bowl victory over Oregon State. Hall is also mature for a rookie at 24 years old (he took 2 years off to be a missionary). So he has his head on right, and he has faced the pressure of big (nationally televised) games before.

Hall has sentiment on his side as a local product, a good churchgoing kid (ala Kurt Warner) and the nephew of local hero Danny White. This is leading to a lot of people rooting for him and wanting to see him as the starter. Let’s not bring that kind of hype into this for now. It’s great that he’s a good guy and a local kid but I’m just talking about what I’ve seen on the field because honestly, I had no idea he was a local product until someone said it when we were playing in Chicago. Hometown sentiment shouldn’t solely dictate who starts on an NFL team. On the same note, people shouldn’t hold his religion against him either.

Here’s the real interesting thing about Hall for me right now, he’s the opposite of Anderson and Skelton and I really like that about him. Max Hall will never be better than he is right now. The reason? His style… He’s not a project like Skelton. He doesn’t need to learn the speed of the game or the reads to make, he’s already there. The kid just runs out there and plays like he’s in the park with some buddies. It’s not about developing his skills and his physical talent, Max Hall is an all guts player and it will be reflected if and when he plays. There will be amazing plays that thrill you and bonehead plays that make you want to kill him. The real question is can he succeed in the NFL playing that way? He showed accuracy in camp/preseason and the ability to make reads but with Hall it’s more about the desire to make plays. He reminds me of Doug Flutie. I honestly don’t know if he’s a franchise QB, but he’s definitely someone that will make things interesting when he enters the game. I’m glad he’s our #2. Like I said, sparkplug.

#1 Derek Anderson – 6th year – Oregon State
6’6 235

Ok I will be the first to admit it; when Kurt retired, upon hearing that news back in January if I had to face the reality that Derek Anderson, the dude who just got dumped by maybe the worst team in the NFL was his replacement, I would have been a lot more bummed out. I guess I was still hopeful that Leinart would pan out and everything would wind up being ok. Atleast that’s what I told myself. That’s how I coped with the loss of our HOF QB. So here we are and ML is gone and we have Derek Anderson starting for the Arizona Cardinals. Yay! or OH NO! That’s the question, here are some clues to the answer.

So who is Derek Anderson? He was in Cleveland for 5 seasons but only saw action in 4 of those. (did not play his rookie year after being dumped by Bal) He started a total of 34 games (played in 39) had 46TD’s, 45INT’s and a rating of 69.7. He went to the pro bowl in 2007 and led the Browns to the playoffs. Following that playoff run the Browns drafted Ohio native Brady Quinn and the all too familiar QB controversy was born. Anderson was benched several times over the next 2 seasons and eventually the Browns cut ties with both him and Quinn.

Anderson has all the physical tools to be a great QB. He clearly has the vision to see open receivers but he tends to lock on to them with his eyes which is easily picked up by savvy defenders and leads to INT’s. He has a cannon for an arm but he sometimes lacks touch on his short passes which leads to inaccuracy. There is a period of adjustment to be expected as our receivers get used to catching fastballs instead of change-ups but Anderson still needs to improve his touch on throws both long and short.

For me, the most interesting thing about Anderson’s weaknesses is that they are all correctable. Surely he can take something off those short passes, surely he can learn to swivel his head and look off receivers, that can be coached right? That being said, after 5 seasons why hasn’t he corrected them? I believe this is a result of him playing for an extremely bad football team with poor leadership and coaching. The Brows ownership acknowledged that they have failed in the QB department and brought in Mike Holmgren to start from scratch and rebuild. Either that or he's too stubborn or too dumb to improve. I really dont know.

Sometimes a change will do you good and the Cardinals have an excellent coaching staff so who knows; maybe they can help Anderson? Warner praised our strength and QB coaches for improving his game when he came here, Anderson is no Warner, but maybe they can help him too.

So all in all the jury is still out on all three of our QB’s but don’t lose hope people. Anything can happen in the NFL and you never know what a guy can do when he’s put in the right situation. Anderson has 10x the talent around him than he ever had in Cleveland. He’s got the coaches and the team behind him for now, so now he just has to go out there and win the fans over too. This is no small task as he has some extremely large shoes to fill but there is no disputing that DA has the talent to make good throws in this league. He has never been more set up to succeed than he is right now. Can he? Will he? Time will tell.

…and if he fails, let’s put the spark plug in and see what happens

GO CARDINALS!

 

[THESMEL]

mute

 

[Bert]

mute

Coming from the person who writes some of the most incoherent, unreadable nonsense I've ever read, I take that as a compliment, thank you very much!

 

[lobo]

Well the season is FINALLY upon us and the roster

…and if he fails, let’s put the spark plug in and see what happens

GO CARDINALS!

Well put together agree or not....a couple of thoughts...wasn't it "the walrus" who dumped Warner out of GB...I know Mariucci was involved, but I thought Mike had soemething to do with it. Regardless as much as I an rooting for Anderson, I do get a queezy feeling when Holmgren comes in a dumps him...I think on the whole he can evaluate a Qb's worth.

Try and make a list of guys...Warner aside....who made major improvements after being traded or cut..yeah, you can put Johnny U on the list just to make yourself feel good!

 

[Mitch]

Bert, thanks for the time, thought and effort you put into this post. It was fun to read. I agree with most of it, except your prediction that Hall won't get any better. Great comeptitiors are always seeking an edge...look at Kurt Warner. Do you remember him taking notes on the sidelines in Week 17 when the Cardinals were getting pummeled by the Packers? Warner could have simply watched the game and rested on his laurels thinking he would light GB up the following week.

In Max Hall I believe he will prepare as hard and diligently as any QB in the league. He came to training camp 100% prepared and Whiz was amazed at how Hall had gained a command of the offense in such a short time. He's not in there just chucking the ball around and winging it. He knows what's excpected of the QB on each play...which is why he and Whiz got in a little heated exchange on the sidelines last week when Hall should have checked down. Hall knew it before Whiz said anything.

As for his size being a detriment, the thing about Hall is that he is nifty at shuffling his feet to find clear passing lanes, and the uncanny thing about him in just his first few months as an NFL QB is that when Hall is moving his feet to dodge pressure and to create good passing lanes his vision is still exactly where it should be: down the field. He does not play scared or panicky under pressure in the least. In fact he seems to relish the challenge of being able to think on his feet. Also being smaller works well for him in that he can duck the big hits if he has to or sneak right through the traffic into the open field.

What will be interesting is how much he will improve his distance and accuracy on the deep throws. Hall has the arm...but the deep throws are so much more about timing than anything else...and thus he won't have the time to shuffle around to set up for the deep throw unless it's on a broken play. He's going to have to prefect the five to seven step drops while looking off the FS, crow hop forward and let'r loose. This is the area of his game that needs the most improvement. One gets the sense he will be working on this day and night.

What Hall brings that will now be a nightmare for DCs and opposing HCs is his ability to scramble...which makes it so much harder for teams to play strict man-to-man covers. With Warner teams never had to worry about this. Now teams will have to keep a LB in to guard the scramble, meaning one less defender in the coverage and with the depth and talent the Cardinals have at WR, man, covering these guys with a mobile QB is going to quite a challenge.

 

[wa52lz]

Nice write up. One thing though, the browns didnt make the playoffs in 2007.

 

[Shane]

Good stuff Bert!

 

[Bert]

To wa52lz, You are correct, I was misinformed.

To Mitch,

Yes I suppose that was poorly worded because I really didn't mean that he's NEVER going to get better I just mean in terms of his physical tools and techniques. He'll certaily gain experience and become wiser (like you said) I just mean in terms of being 'ready' and improving overall Skelton has a lot farther to go than Hall. Thanks for the kind words!

 

[kerouac9]

Thank you for the compliment.

However,
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2007.htm
They did.

To Mitch,

Yes I suppose that was poorly worded because I really didn't mean that he's NEVER going to get better I just mean in terms of his physical tools and techniques. He'll certaily gain experience and become wiser (like you said) I just mean in terms of being 'ready' and improving overall Skelton has a lot farther to go than Hall. Thanks for the kind words!

Dude, they didn't: http://www.nfl.com/standings?category=div&season=2007-REG&split=Overall

Who did the Browns play in the playoffs? Yeah, they went 10-6, but they finished second in the AFC North behind Pittsburgh on tiebreakers. The finished behind the 10-6 Titans for the Wild Card on tiebreakers. Pittsburgh lost to the Jags when they couldn't stop the run.

 

[Mitch]

Thank you for the compliment.

However,
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2007.htm
They did.

To Mitch,

Yes I suppose that was poorly worded because I really didn't mean that he's NEVER going to get better I just mean in terms of his physical tools and techniques. He'll certaily gain experience and become wiser (like you said) I just mean in terms of being 'ready' and improving overall Skelton has a lot farther to go than Hall. Thanks for the kind words!

Bert, you deserve kudos for this thread. It's a very good one.

I'd just say that with Whiz...everyone is being coached to improve, both physically and mentally. Look at what Whiz has done with Larry Fitzgerald. There's no status quo with Whiz, nor with his players.

Look to at what he did with Kurt Warner...I honestly believe that last year was Warner's best by far, because he showed he was able to iron out his weaknesses...he didn't hold onto the ball too long, he didn't fumble the ball as often and he led the Cardinals to the #1 Red Zone % in the NFL.

So when you apply these factors to Max Hall, or anyone else in Whiz's offense, you know these players will be trying to improve each year both physically (see John Lott), fundamentally (see Whiz and coaches) and mentally (see Whiz).

 

[Bert]

Dude, they didn't: http://www.nfl.com/standings?category=div&season=2007-REG&split=Overall

Who did the Browns play in the playoffs? Yeah, they went 10-6, but they finished second in the AFC North behind Pittsburgh on tiebreakers. The finished behind the 10-6 Titans for the Wild Card on tiebreakers. Pittsburgh lost to the Jags when they couldn't stop the run.

Idk I apologize I was looking at their 2007 summary on profootballreference and it says 10-6 1st in AFC North so obviously I assumed they went to the playoffs. lol My bad, but I was misinformed.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2007.htm

I dont follow the Browns closely enough to contradict the website. Thank you for the correction.

 

[D-Dogg]

 

[Duckjake]

Idk I apologize I was looking at their 2007 summary on profootballreference and it says 10-6 1st in AFC North so obviously I assumed they went to the playoffs. lol My bad, but I was misinformed.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2007.htm

I dont follow the Browns closely enough to contradict the website. Thank you for the correction.

Technically profootball-reference.com is correct. The Browns did tie for first in the AFC North. Just lost out to the Steelers in the tiebreaker and since there was an 11-5 second place team they missed the playoffs.

 

[slanidrac16]

We need to keep our enthusiasm in check with Max, however, he is a much better talent then, BSP, Tyler Palko, John Navarre and the likes of which I want to forget.

There was one play against the Redskins that Max won me over with. The Cards had called a middle screen. As the play developed the Skins defense recignized it. Instead of just throwing it away he pumped, pulled it back down and hit the running back (Smith) who broke off his pattern for a 20 yard gain.
That takes a little field awareness to say the least. Many, I repeat, MANY Qb's out there would have played it safe and killed the play.

When I saw that I just said "wow".

That being said I would love to see Max play Sunday....only because we are up 41-10 going into the 4th quarter. Then again, if he gets in there and does good, we could have qb controversy around here. Oh well, it's been a while since we've had that.

 

[Covert Rain]

Good post.

I think Max Hall is a project and I really am not impressed by his arm strength. He is a "dink and dunk" QB IMO. I think he has potential to get better so I don't agree with you there but I don't think he will be a star either.

DA is crap IMO. Sorry. I think he sucks.

Skelton might be the best "prototypical" QB on the roster. He is not ready this year.

I think we are screwed at the QB position. My only ray of hope is that DA loses his job early and Hall just tries to come in a play mistake free football.

 

[8ndkorner]

Coming from the person who writes some of the most incoherent, unreadable nonsense I've ever read, I take that as a compliment, thank you very much!

I agree man. This guy needs to go to the Houston Texans board and follow their #3 QB.

 

[Russ Smith]

To wa52lz, You are correct, I was misinformed.

To Mitch,

Yes I suppose that was poorly worded because I really didn't mean that he's NEVER going to get better I just mean in terms of his physical tools and techniques. He'll certaily gain experience and become wiser (like you said) I just mean in terms of being 'ready' and improving overall Skelton has a lot farther to go than Hall. Thanks for the kind words!

I was going to say the same thing, Hall will get better because if/when he plays he'll still make rookie mistakes like the INT in his first game or a couple of the throws in his last game. The difference between him and Skelton(and probably Anderson) is that I believe Max can process that information and learn from it MUCH quicker. Skelton's a very bright kid but he was making the same mistakes in his last game that he made in his first game, he's not dumb, he just has to convince himself that throws he could get away with in college won't work in the NFL, especially given the level of competition he played against. Similar to an article about Leinart, Skelton is still learning that if you stand back there waiting for the receiver to be wide open, you're going to find they very rarely are wide open.

Hall learned that already, that's why everyone keeps praising him for getting rid of the ball so quickly, it's not just a quick release it's quick decisions. It seems so simple but the difference between good and bad NFL QB's is often
the ability to deal with things not going according to plan. NO matter how smart the coaches are and how talented the players are on virtually every called play things happen that weren't supposed to happen, WR slips, OL misses his block, safety isn't where you thought he'd be given the formation etc. Bad QB's wait and watch hoping the primary guy opens up, good QB's recognize the first option isn't there and look to the next one. Matt was doing that too quickly thus all the checkdowns, one thing Hall showed right away was no fear of going downfield if the play is there.

If Hall plays this season I have no doubt he'll make mistakes, but it will be interesting to see what he can do, he plays like a guy who's been sitting on an NFL bench for several years soaking up the game, he appears to be way ahead of the normal rookie in that regard.

 

[joeshmo]

he didn't fumble the ball as often

11 Fumbles in 2008, 11 in 2009

 

[Rasputin]

So far in his NFL career, Derek Anderson has been atrocious. Almost as horrible as Steve Young was starting out.

the Buccaneers posted 2–14 records in each of Young's two seasons with them, and Young's record as starter was 3–16. In his 19 games, he threw for only 11 touchdowns with 21 interceptions while completing fewer than 55% of his passes. Although his time in Tampa Bay was miserable, San Francisco 49ers coach Bill Walsh was impressed by Young's natural abilities and felt that his problems were due to the struggling Bucs organization.

Of course, he's probably no Steve Young. Then again Jeff Hostedler was no Phil Simms. And anyone remember when when Joe Theisman got murdered on the field and the Redskins got stuck with scrubs like Doug Williams and Mark Rypien?

 

[Russ Smith]

So far in his NFL career, Derek Anderson has been atrocious. Almost as horrible as Steve Young was starting out.



Of course, he's probably no Steve Young. Then again Jeff Hostedler was no Phil Simms. And anyone remember when when Joe Theisman got murdered on the field and the Redskins got stuck with scrubs like Doug Williams and Mark Rypien?

Good examples. He's nothing like Young, Steve had no idea what he was doing when he came into the NFL, great athlete who had to learn to be a QB. It started in SF when he worked with Shanahan who taught him to be a QB. He's a much better athlete than DA is, didn't have as strong of an arm though.

Williams and Rypien are good examples, big guys with strong arms, it's certainly not unprecedented for a guy to play well later in his career, Plunkett did it too. It's just pretty rare, there's a handful of guys who did it so you just have to hope Anderson joins that handful of guys.

 

[Duckjake]

Good examples. He's nothing like Young, Steve had no idea what he was doing when he came into the NFL, great athlete who had to learn to be a QB. It started in SF when he worked with Shanahan who taught him to be a QB. He's a much better athlete than DA is, didn't have as strong of an arm though.

Williams and Rypien are good examples, big guys with strong arms, it's certainly not unprecedented for a guy to play well later in his career, Plunkett did it too. It's just pretty rare, there's a handful of guys who did it so you just have to hope Anderson joins that handful of guys.

Hard to believe that Jim Plunkett in 16 years in the NFL only had 4 seasons where he threw more TD passes than interceptions and was in the NFL 12 years before having a QB rating over 80.

Trent Green is another guy who played well later in his career.

Sadly our Steve Young didn't pan out and we don't have 4 years for DA to sit behind a future HOF QB.

 

[desertdawg]

I think it all comes down to which QB will do better when the pocket collapses. DA has more experience at this level, while Hall appears to think on his feet and manifest plays. Hall is way too green, and DA has his best shot in the NFL right now. If he can't do good things with this squad, well , hopefully Hall adapts quickly. Who ever is driving the car, is who I will root for. It would take a lot more than a missed pass or two (by DA) for me to jump on the rookies bandwagon. One of these guys should do just fine. Can't wait to see more of Hall, loven the style!

 

[D-Dogg]

Hall ~snip~ it's not just a quick release it's quick decisions.

THAT is the reason I completely flipped on my assessment of Max Hall. I thought he looked good at camp, but the second preseason game I was wary because he was skittish out of the pocket and throwing on the run. My first thought was "Oh no." I don't like that kind of QB and assumed too much.

I turned that around in the 3rd preseason game when he stayed in the pocket, and threw some gorgeous passes, the prettiest ones of all preseason by any QB. I thought "ah, he can stay in the pocket, he can make throws." I hit the bandwagon then.

Game 4 of the preseason, he showed both pocket passing ability and scrambling awareness, and I realized what it was that caused me to assume the first time. He makes a decision, and goes with it. Fast. If he's going to run, he runs. If he's got someone open, he throws to them. Very good and fast decision making. That first game, he simply saw the best option was to move out of the pocket fast and make a play. In retrospect, now seeing that wasn't all he had (that was my initial fear) it just cements my thoughts on the guy. He's an excellent decision maker and processes information quickly. Oh, he'll make the wrong decision for sure and will make mistakes galore, but the fact that he isn't worried about BEING decisive is crucial. He doesn't seem like the type that will get easily rattled or shellshocked. Enormously confident, quick decision maker, ability to move in the pocket, nice touch, good looking ball, and likeable...we can and have done a LOT worse at the QB position.

 

[Duckjake]

It's Jake Plummer with one very important distinction. When Jake moved in the pocket he became a running back and had his head down looking for escape routes. (Hey we all loved Jake the afternoon of Jan. 2nd 1998) Hall, as was noted by the announcers during the Skins game, keeps his head up and is looking to throw while he moves. It is the number one difference maker in whether a mobile QB is successful.

I like Hall but he is too small and too old for a rookie.

 

[Rasputin]

Good examples. He's nothing like Young, Steve had no idea what he was doing when he came into the NFL, great athlete who had to learn to be a QB. It started in SF when he worked with Shanahan who taught him to be a QB. He's a much better athlete than DA is, didn't have as strong of an arm though.

Williams and Rypien are good examples, big guys with strong arms, it's certainly not unprecedented for a guy to play well later in his career, Plunkett did it too. It's just pretty rare, there's a handful of guys who did it so you just have to hope Anderson joins that handful of guys.

My main point is that losing a HOF QB doesn't necessarily kill your team. There are several mediocre to be generous QBs with Super Bowl rings. A couple of which stepped in for HOF caliber predecessors and managed not to lose. What they have in common is good coaching, a dominant defense and a strong running game. Which we should have if the offensive line comes together (which I have no doubt Boss Hogg will make happen) and if Toler is the answer at CB.

Anderson did manage to have one good season with the Cleveland Freaking Browns.Which is more than Heisman boy ever accomplished as a pro. Imagine what he can do on the Cardinals.