My Thoughts on Horton

[Mitch]

First of all, I am happy that MB is doing his due diligence---

I am also thrilled that MB had the humbleness and perspicacity to ask Ray Horton what Horton thought he (Bidwill) could do better as an owner.

To me, that speaks volumes to MB's character...and his integrity.

I really like the fact that Horton has already been in the building for two years.

Even better, I love the fact that when the team was 1-6 and thoroughly demoralized last year, Horton, that's right, Horton got the full attention of his defense---and the results were at times eye-popping.

What that tells me is that when times are tough, Horton is a guy who will get the attention of the team.

Furthermore, I love Horton's passion and energy.

I can see him and his players not wanting to take one iota of sheit from the 49ers, Seahawks and Rams.

Plus---I firmly believe that Horton has a talent for encouraging the players to take the ownership and the responsibility for their performance on the field.

Last, but not least, I thoroughly believe that if Ray Horton gets greater input on personnel, he will build a juggernaut defense.

Here are my issues, however.

1. If Horton said he would continue to call the defensive plays---I would be ecstatic---I don't want anyone else calling those plays when he is in the building.

I get the whole "delegate" thing---

But---we would have a better chance of winning with Horton calling the defensive plays---there is no doubt in my mind.

In the NFC West we need Ray Horton to call the defense. Period.

Not Louie Cioffi or anyone else.

2. I really want to move on from Kevin Kolb. I don't know if Horton and Reid are talking up Kolb to appease Michael Bidwill.

I think we need a fresh face at QB---and we need a QB who has far better durability.

3. I would love to know what Horton's offensive staff looks like before I completely endorse his candidacy. He says he as an offensive staff ready to go---this will say a great deal about how astute he is about being able to oversee the entire football team.

If Horton were to say:

1. Don't worry the defensive plans each week will be my blueprint and I will run it...

2. We need a fresh face at QB...

3. Here are my offensive coaches---and here's why the choices are smart....

I am totally in on Horton.

 

[MadCardDisease]

1. If Horton said he would continue to call the defensive plays---I would be ecstatic---I don't want anyone else calling those plays when he is in the building.

I get the whole "delegate" thing---

But---we would have a better chance of winning with Horton calling the defensive plays---there is no doubt in my mind.

In the NFC West we need Ray Horton to call the defense. Period.

Not Louie Cioffi or anyone else.

There is no if. Horton was pretty clear that he would have a true OC and DC calling the plays.

 

[D-Dogg]

I completely disagree. I don't want the HC calling plays.

His answers were spot on, IMO.

And we aren't cutting bait with Kolb. We will draft someone to replace him I'm sure, either this year or next, but he's going to be the starter going into the season next year and you can bank that.

 

[kerouac9]

I think it's hard to call plays either way from the sideline. Some coaches do it fairly well, but if you want a schematic, real-time understanding of how people are attacking you, you need to see it from upstairs.

Head coach/playcallers don't have time to look through all the Polaroids coming off the printer; they have other things to do.

 

[desertdawg]

I completely disagree. I don't want the HC calling plays.

His answers were spot on, IMO.

And we aren't cutting bait with Kolb. We will draft someone to replace him I'm sure, either this year or next, but he's going to be the starter going into the season next year and you can bank that.

I still think Horton will play a very heavy role in game planning, watching the game film with said DC. I think he can still help put a blue print defensively on every game, and then leave the playcall to the DC when we're on the field. The way Horton keeps saying he is different, I don't know what to expect.

But this will be 3 years I've had the same Az QB jersey to sport, new personal record. He's only played like 8 games, but I hope I can wear it to a playoff game someday.

 

[PJ1]

I too would like to move on from Kolb. Love Horton but hiring him as HC is a gamble. Although anything we do will be a gamble.

 

[kerouac9]

I completely disagree. I don't want the HC calling plays.

His answers were spot on, IMO.

And we aren't cutting bait with Kolb. We will draft someone to replace him I'm sure, either this year or next, but he's going to be the starter going into the season next year and you can bank that.

We'll cut bait on him if he doesn't accept a massive pay cut. You can bank on that.

 

[52brandon]

What that tells me is that when times are tough, Horton is a guy who will get the attention of the team.

...

Plus---I firmly believe that Horton has a talent for encouraging the players to take the ownership and the responsibility for their performance on the field...

EXACTLY why I want him at HC

1. If Horton said he would continue to call the defensive plays---I would be ecstatic---I don't want anyone else calling those plays when he is in the building.

I get the whole "delegate" thing---

But---we would have a better chance of winning with Horton calling the defensive plays---there is no doubt in my mind.

In the NFC West we need Ray Horton to call the defense. Period.

Not Louie Cioffi or anyone else.

while I don't disagree that Horton calling plays would have the best effect on D, he WILL not be our DC this year, regardless. I'd rather him as our HC with a DC he chooses, than just completely gone. Plus, I think his presence on the sideline will be better for morale in all honesty, and it takes away from his ability to coordinate

2. I really want to move on from Kevin Kolb. I don't know if Horton and Reid are talking up Kolb to appease Michael Bidwill.

I think we need a fresh face at QB---and we need a QB who has far better durability.

We need a QB going into camp. No buts about it. I think we will get another one. But Kolb is still our best option right now, like it or not. And he did lead the offense on our 4-0 start until he got his ass kicked

3. I would love to know what Horton's offensive staff looks like before I completely endorse his candidacy. He says he as an offensive staff ready to go---this will say a great deal about how astute he is about being able to oversee the entire football team.

I'm sure it's something he and Bidwill either have, or intend to discuss upon deeper consideration. It's something that would obviously want to be known before just throwing him the keys (like he did the cook in PIT for his old SL. Which still sticks with me as an indication of his character)

If Horton were to say:

1. Don't worry the defensive plans each week will be my blueprint and I will run it...

2. We need a fresh face at QB...

3. Here are my offensive coaches---and here's why the choices are smart....

I am totally in on Horton.

1: I'm good with who he trusts to run the D, he knows the job amazingly well, anybody he trusts to do the job, I believe will be capable of doing the job

2: I fully expect a fresh face at QB. I would PREFER one that can be groomed behind Kolb for a couple seasons if we can keep him healthy enough to win games

3: again. I'm sure it will be a factor in MB's decision, but I doubt we will know until the ink is on paper. Doesn't make sense to tip off the other teams/coaches as to what guys you intend to tab

 

[desertdawg]

I also think Mikey might be leaning Horton because it will be a lot easier to split up that power pie. Reid will want the whole thing. Nice stuff Mitch.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

HC: RAY
QB: Smith
OC: Norv
DC: Keith Butler?

 

[TRW]

I am OK with Horton. If he stays "hands on" on the defense during a game I think it would work until the new DC has a handle on it eventually.

Hopefully, he can assemble a quality OC and assistants that can run a viable NFL offense. To do that I agree that a change at QB is vital. I have no confidence that Kolb will ever be above a below average QB, even if he stays healthy. He just has the propensity for making boneheaded plays that can kill a team from being a true contender.

He has shown good leadership skills with the defense but running the whole show is a big step up. But, he has to get the chance some time and this may just be his time to shine.

 

[52brandon]

We'll cut bait on him if he doesn't accept a massive pay cut. You can bank on that.

going into next year? I'm not so sure on that. And what do you consider "massive" out of curiosity?

 

[D-Dogg]

We'll cut bait on him if he doesn't accept a massive pay cut. You can bank on that.

He will. He's practically forced to. He ain't getting a starting job elsewhere for any decent scratch.

 

[Mulli]

Why did it take the team going 1-6 to get the attention of the team? Edit: of the defense

 

[52brandon]

Why did it take the team going 1-6 to get the attention of the team?

it didn't. But it's easy for a team to just give the bird to a brand new OC with a brand new scheme when you're not winning. But they didn't he kept their trust and we saw the dividends before the season even ended

 

[Russ Smith]

Why did it take the team going 1-6 to get the attention of the team?

It didn't, it took 1-6 for the defense to figure out Horton's new system.

People were saying Horton was over his head and the whole defense looked confused, because in fact they WERE confused. Then they figured it out and suddenly Horton was a genius.

the offense was a completely different issue that year but the defense didn't start slowly and then turn it on because Horton got their attention, it's because they finally figured out what he wanted to do. You could see it, everyone got their role, believed in it, and it worked.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think it's hard to call plays either way from the sideline. Some coaches do it fairly well, but if you want a schematic, real-time understanding of how people are attacking you, you need to see it from upstairs.

Head coach/playcallers don't have time to look through all the Polaroids coming off the printer; they have other things to do.

This!

 

[Mulli]

It didn't, it took 1-6 for the defense to figure out Horton's new system.

People were saying Horton was over his head and the whole defense looked confused, because in fact they WERE confused. Then they figured it out and suddenly Horton was a genius.

the offense was a completely different issue that year but the defense didn't start slowly and then turn it on because Horton got their attention, it's because they finally figured out what he wanted to do. You could see it, everyone got their role, believed in it, and it worked.

That is how I remember it.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think it's hard to call plays either way from the sideline. Some coaches do it fairly well, but if you want a schematic, real-time understanding of how people are attacking you, you need to see it from upstairs.

Head coach/playcallers don't have time to look through all the Polaroids coming off the printer; they have other things to do.

Agreed. I like my head coach to have significant input into the gameplan, but to let his coordinator call the plays. Same goes for personnel control. I'm ok with the head coach having a say, but he shouldn't have final say over the decisions.

 

[JeffGollin]

Mitch - The problem with Horton calling defensive plays as HC may be more mechanical than political.

Ray likes to call defensive plays from a vantage point in the press box high in the stadium. As HC, he'd logically have to be down there at ground-level on the sideline. He may feel he can't see the field well enough or get quick and accurate info relayed from the press box in order to dial up the right plays quickly enough.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Agreed. I like my head coach to have significant input into the gameplan, but to let his coordinator call the plays. Same goes for personnel control. I'm ok with the head coach having a say, but he shouldn't have final say over the decisions.

Otherwise why would they have all those scouts and what not.

 

[kerouac9]

going into next year? I'm not so sure on that. And what do you consider "massive" out of curiosity?

He's scheduled to make $9 million in salary, $2 million roster bonus, and $500K workout bonus. $11.5 million is a tough salary to swallow for a guy who's started maybe a dozen games in two seasons. His salary cap number is north of $14 million.

I'd like to see that number down by half. I'd love to see him get the $2 million roster bonus and reduce his salary to $5 million and not have to tear up the contract that we have with him.

If we cut him and then try and re-sign him, I think we'd end up having to swallow some $11 million in accelerated bonus money, then whatever actual salary he'd make when we re-sign him.

 

[Buckybird]

We'll cut bait on him if he doesn't accept a massive pay cut. You can bank on that.

I agree. I'm on board if he takes $4/mil a year after pocketing $21 for 2 years of injuries.

But...we still need to add a veteran QB who can play & cut bait with Skelton & Lindley. Colt McCoy anyone? He's my choice

 

[Buckybird]

Mitch, count me in 100% on Horton as of today after thinking long & hard about it. So much of what I see went wrong with & lead of Reid's demise in Philly, looks so much like what happened to Wiz.

Something makes me think Horton will get us back to the SB & every time I hear him speak, I become more impressed.

 

[Mitch]

As for coaching on the sidelines and not from above---that's the reason for headsets and coaches in the booth.

You see, here's the problem with excellent coordinators becoming head coaches. The best guy for making the calls is no longer making them.

To me, if Horton doesn't make the calls, I would just as soon gamble that he doesn't get a HC gig in order to keep him doing what he does best.

Everyone is saying---but we don't want to lose Horton...but then again we lose his gift for calling defensive plays if he becomes a HC who delegates.

Lastly, consider this---no one knows yet what Horton's choices are for OC and DC---but it's quite possible that they would be two coaches who have never called a play in an NFL game. I could fathom one hot prospect coordinator---but what are the odds that two rookie coordinators could get the job done versus the established coordinators in the NFC West?