My Thoughts on Horton

[DemsMyBoys]

Mitch it's a pity you're missing the local TV interviews with Horton about his interview. The man seems totally pumped about what he and Michael talked about. His enthusiasm for possibly getting the job is obvious. And contagious!

 

[Mitch]

Mitch it's a pity you're missing the local TV interviews with Horton about his interview. The man seems totally pumped about what he and Michael talked about. His enthusiasm for possibly getting the job is obvious. And contagious!

I heard his interview and I loved it. He says all the right things, Dems. I want to say yes yes yes---but I want more info first---I want to know what his offensive staff choices are and I could tell you right then and there whether they are good or not so good.

 

[52brandon]

As for coaching on the sidelines and not from above---that's the reason for headsets and coaches in the booth.

You see, here's the problem with excellent coordinators becoming head coaches. The best guy for making the calls is no longer making them.

To me, if Horton doesn't make the calls, I would just as soon gamble that he doesn't get a HC gig in order to keep him doing what he does best.

Everyone is saying---but we don't want to lose Horton...but then again we lose his gift for calling defensive plays if he becomes a HC who delegates.

Lastly, consider this---no one knows yet what Horton's choices are for OC and DC---but it's quite possible that they would be two coaches who have never called a play in an NFL game. I could fathom one hot prospect coordinator---but what are the odds that two rookie coordinators could get the job done versus the established coordinators in the NFC West?

I will bet you anything that he is not a Defensive Coordinator next season. Whether he's the HC here, or elsewhere, he WILL be a HC

 

[gmabel830]

1. If Horton said he would continue to call the defensive plays---I would be ecstatic---I don't want anyone else calling those plays when he is in the building.

I get the whole "delegate" thing---

But---we would have a better chance of winning with Horton calling the defensive plays---there is no doubt in my mind.

In the NFC West we need Ray Horton to call the defense. Period.

Not Louie Cioffi or anyone else.

I don't have the time or inclination to look it up, but just out of curiosity Mitch -- what were your thoughts on Whiz calling the offensive plays when he did that?

 

[DemsMyBoys]

I heard his interview and I loved it. He says all the right things, Dems. I want to say yes yes yes---but I want more info first---I want to know what his offensive staff choices are and I could tell you right then and there whether they are good or not so good.

Maybe you can answer a question: Horton said he spoke to someone in the FO besides Michael. It was a name I'm not familiar with. Do you know who it was?

Anyone?

 

[JeffGollin]

Maybe you can answer a question: Horton said he spoke to someone in the FO besides Michael. It was a name I'm not familiar with. Do you know who it was?

Anyone?

Possibly Licht and/or Keim?

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Possibly Licht and/or Keim?

Of course. (Slaps forehead) He said Keim. Thanks Jeff.

 

[MrYeahBut]

I could tell you right then and there whether they are good or not so good.

I suppose I'll have to wait until you pass judgement and then I'll know for sure whether Mr Horton can make the proper decisions regarding his staff choices.



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[JeffGollin]

Of course. (Slaps forehead) He said Keim. Thanks Jeff.

Just occurred to me how strange it must be to have a guy who's in the running to be GM present at the interview of another guy who's up for HC.

I wonder if anything can be read into this. (i.e. wouldn't being present at HC interviews and visits to Fiesta Bowl practices give Keim a leg up on other GM candidates)?

 

[artp]

I've never worried about R Horton as a HC from a Defensive side. I would like to know how he answered the question about fixing the Offense?

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Just occurred to me how strange it must be to have a guy who's in the running to be GM present at the interview of another guy who's up for HC.

I wonder if anything can be read into this. (i.e. wouldn't being present at HC interviews and visits to Fiesta Bowl practices give Keim a leg up on other GM candidates)?

I've been thinking about that too. I think it's a result of Michael really thinking this through. Seeing how everyone would work as a team maybe?
Judging by Horton's report of how things went it seems like Michael wants to make sure all the pieces of the puzzle fit and that he'll have a group that can work well with each other.

The more I think about it the more I think Michael was thinking about all this weeks ago. Like in the middle of the nose dive. Keep Whiz for the rest of the season to avoid chaos then Boom. Make the decision and proceed with something he started planning about week 13 or 14.

 

[CtCardinals78]

Mitch, I enjoyed your write up as usual, but I cannot disagree more about having Horton be both the HC and call plays at the same time. That's a recipe for disaster and ultimately what started the Whisenhunt offense of suck. It's also what had Jason Garrett in trouble in Dallas. Rarely does it work. The best thing is for him to find a DC who has a similar philosophy as him.

 

[binkar]

You see, here's the problem with excellent coordinators becoming head coaches. The best guy for making the calls is no longer making them.

To me, if Horton doesn't make the calls, I would just as soon gamble that he doesn't get a HC gig in order to keep him doing what he does best.

Everyone is saying---but we don't want to lose Horton...but then again we lose his gift for calling defensive plays if he becomes a HC who delegates.

Lastly, consider this---no one knows yet what Horton's choices are for OC and DC---but it's quite possible that they would be two coaches who have never called a play in an NFL game. I could fathom one hot prospect coordinator---but what are the odds that two rookie coordinators could get the job done versus the established coordinators in the NFC West?

I was of the same mindset. I know Horton is confident he'll get a job, but I still think it's 50/50 at best. I'd just assume take the risk and hire Reid or McCoy whom I'm very confident could improve our offense.

However, the thing I was most impressed with of the entire interview was Horton saying he's a big believer in delegating. That tells me Horton isn't power hungry, and is willing to bring in established, successful coaches. I also think it makes him a more attractive coach to work under.

One of the biggest problems I had with Whiz (and I liked Whiz) was that he seemed completely unwilling to hire an established, successful coordinator on either side of the ball, and seemed to want as much control possible. He fired CP, who was forced on him, to promote Billy Davis? When Todd Haley left he went with no offensive coordinator before finally promoting Miller. Even through the hiring of Horton, which turned out to be a homerun, there was never an established former DC interviewed.

The thing I like about Horton is he seems to be willing to bring in an established, very well regarded OC like Norv Turner, whereas I don't think Whiz would have been willing to. This is why, all things being considered, I wouldn't be disappointed if Horton got the job.

 

[DoTheDew]

2. I really want to move on from Kevin Kolb. I don't know if Horton and Reid are talking up Kolb to appease Michael Bidwill.

I think we need a fresh face at QB---and we need a QB who has far better durability.

Agreed and an interesting thing about Reid is that all of his QB's have had injury problems. McNabb only played in 16 games in 3 of his 11 seasons with the Eagles. Vick's been hurt. Kolb of course got hurt every time Reid let him see the field.

 

[schutd]

I suppose I'll have to wait until you pass judgement and then I'll know for sure whether Mr Horton can make the proper decisions regarding his staff choices.



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1/SNIDE. I mean 5. This is the exact kind of retort this board could use a lot less of.

 

[HoodieBets]

1/SNIDE. I mean 5. This is the exact kind of retort this board could use a lot less of.

Oh so you just believe in blind faith, I have been watching these cardinals for tooooo long to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. Ill call it a good hire when I see the rest of the staff.

 

[Cardiac]

Couple of interesting quotes from Horton during the course of the season. Well not exact quotes, I'll be paraphrasing.

I like to get inside the OC's head. I like to know what he likes for breakfast and .....
In other words know thyne enemy.

Looking back on this year their are only a couple of times I would have changed the defensive call I made.

Looking at the first "quote", love the preparation and have to believe he will make sure his DC will be doing the same. Maybe even get involved with this aspect when the DC is putting together the game plan.

The second "quote" is where I believe Mitch has the concern about Horton not calling the plays on D. Now we would need to define what Horton means by only changing a couple of calls. Does he mean he was right 98% of the time and the players didn't execute or does he mean given the same set of circumstances he would make the same call again even though there was a better one to be made. In other words not allowing for hindsight.

Obviously Horton is very adept, if not brilliant, at calling a game on D. He has also shown a great ability to coach and teach players up. I would think that this would translate to being able to coach up his DC.

Since Horton has demonstrated the ability to "get inside his opponents head" and obviously understand how their offense runs then I would think he has plenty of knowledge on the offensive side of the ball and can help his OC has well.

I want Horton not to be saddled with making all the calls on D and have the ability to manage the game and give input everywhere.

His true test will be can he hire/promote and then train his new DC to become as proficient a game planner and caller as he is. Well he better be because that's why he got the job.

 

[JeffGollin]

One of the biggest problems I had with Whiz (and I liked Whiz) was that he seemed completely unwilling to hire an established, successful coordinator on either side of the ball...

Excuse me for being contentious, but didn't Wiz hire Horton?

 

[MadCardDisease]

Lastly, consider this---no one knows yet what Horton's choices are for OC and DC---but it's quite possible that they would be two coaches who have never called a play in an NFL game. I could fathom one hot prospect coordinator---but what are the odds that two rookie coordinators could get the job done versus the established coordinators in the NFC West?

This is directly from Horton's mouth:

Q. When they ask you about staff structure, do you say I’m still going to run the defense?
A. “Nope. I delegate. I think a guy that controls everything, controls nothing. I would be there to assist and help if needed. But I trust the coaches I hire to be experts at their positions. Now am I going to get 11, 15, 22 experts who are going to be experts at every position? Probably not. But the two coordinators are going to be experts. Really, in my power structure, that’s how it works. Your head coach and two coordinators have to be expert at their position. It’s a trickle-down effect of getting this guy to do this and hey, coach this this way and do that. There’s a hierarchy of critical positions. The quality control is not the most critical position on the staff.”

So I don't think he is going to bring in a rookie coordinator at OC or DC.

 

[PJ1]

Excuse me for being contentious, but didn't Wiz hire Horton?

He was a good hire. Only the bad hires count.

 

[MrYeahBut]

1/SNIDE. I mean 5. This is the exact kind of retort this board could use a lot less of.

While the comment may have seemed snide to you, how can it be any more snide than someone saying they could make a judgement on the spot? I just found that remark to be condescending to the poster he replied to. Maybe I didn't cloak my sentiments as well as I should have. For that, I apologize if I offended you.

On topic, My personal opinion is, should Horton be hired as coach, the assistants he hires may have a different chemistry with him than they've had previously on other staffs. Under his guidance it's quite possible to have a completely different level of success going forward.


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[john h]

First of all, I am happy that MB is doing his due diligence---

I am also thrilled that MB had the humbleness and perspicacity to ask Ray Horton what Horton thought he (Bidwill) could do better as an owner.

To me, that speaks volumes to MB's character...and his integrity.

I really like the fact that Horton has already been in the building for two years.

Even better, I love the fact that when the team was 1-6 and thoroughly demoralized last year, Horton, that's right, Horton got the full attention of his defense---and the results were at times eye-popping.

What that tells me is that when times are tough, Horton is a guy who will get the attention of the team.

Furthermore, I love Horton's passion and energy.

I can see him and his players not wanting to take one iota of sheit from the 49ers, Seahawks and Rams.

Plus---I firmly believe that Horton has a talent for encouraging the players to take the ownership and the responsibility for their performance on the field.

Last, but not least, I thoroughly believe that if Ray Horton gets greater input on personnel, he will build a juggernaut defense.

Here are my issues, however.

1. If Horton said he would continue to call the defensive plays---I would be ecstatic---I don't want anyone else calling those plays when he is in the building.

I get the whole "delegate" thing---

But---we would have a better chance of winning with Horton calling the defensive plays---there is no doubt in my mind.

In the NFC West we need Ray Horton to call the defense. Period.

Not Louie Cioffi or anyone else.

2. I really want to move on from Kevin Kolb. I don't know if Horton and Reid are talking up Kolb to appease Michael Bidwill.

I think we need a fresh face at QB---and we need a QB who has far better durability.

3. I would love to know what Horton's offensive staff looks like before I completely endorse his candidacy. He says he as an offensive staff ready to go---this will say a great deal about how astute he is about being able to oversee the entire football team.

If Horton were to say:

1. Don't worry the defensive plans each week will be my blueprint and I will run it...

2. We need a fresh face at QB...

3. Here are my offensive coaches---and here's why the choices are smart....

I am totally in on Horton.

I agree with most of what you say Mitch in particular moving on from Kolb. He has had more chances than most any QB I can think of. The injury problem is not going to go away no matter who is HC. We need to draft the best QB we can and sign the best experienced QB we can. You apparently know Horton or have heard him talk or spoken with him. Few if any of us have done that. It is hard to make a decent judgement on a man for any job without having at least talked to him and heard him speak. To me he is the most likely choice at this time. He did an excellent job as DC and he is already there and in place. He may want to go to a better team but then he may be up to the challenge. MB made the necessary moves so far. I never thought I would see the day that Graves was fired. Here is looking to a new year and a new Cards front office and hopefully a real NFL QB. My best to all Cards fans. We have lived through hell longer than we deserve.

 

[52brandon]

Excuse me for being contentious, but didn't Wiz hire Horton?

Horton, while very good at DC now, was far from established/experienced at the position at the time though

This is directly from Horton's mouth:



So I don't think he is going to bring in a rookie coordinator at OC or DC.

I wouldn't bank on that. By the same token, he said the HC needed to be an expert. If being a first year coach at that spot disqualified you from being an expert, he wouldn't qualify as an acceptable HC on his own team

 

[MadCardDisease]

I wouldn't bank on that. By the same token, he said the HC needed to be an expert. If being a first year coach at that spot disqualified you from being an expert, he wouldn't qualify as an acceptable HC on his own team

Good point.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I wouldn't bank on that. By the same token, he said the HC needed to be an expert. If being a first year coach at that spot disqualified you from being an expert, he wouldn't qualify as an acceptable HC on his own team

Just because he hasn't been a HC before doesn't mean he isn't a football expert.