My wishes in FA ( and how it would influence my thinking on our draft)

[joeshmo]

Wow do I disagree with your take on Robertson. The kid's had bone on bone in one knee since surgery after his rookie year and he continues to never miss an NFL game. he's having statistically his best year in sacks, he's a run stuffer at heart. I don't know if he's complaining or not given how bad the Jets season has gone it would surprise me if anybody on that team were happy.

But a "lazy" person doesn't play 28 games with no cartilage in one knee, that's the same injury that essentially ended Eric Swann's career.

has Ngata managed a full year in college yet let alone 44 straight starts in the NFL playing hurt much of the time?

I made a big mistake. I got him and Sullivan confused for a second. Both were highly touted DT prospects in 03 and got them mixed up for a second. I just got into a debate with a guy in a cube next to and it was fresh on my mind.

 

[joeshmo]

has Ngata managed a full year in college yet let alone 44 straight starts in the NFL playing hurt much of the time?

Yes his freshman year and this past year. 2003 knee injury took him out for 2003 and came back with pain to complete the last half of the 2004 season with a bang.

 

[Russ Smith]

I made a big mistake. I got him and Sullivan confused for a second. Both were highly touted DT prospects in 03 and got them mixed up for a second. I just got into a debate with a guy in a cube next to and it was fresh on my mind.

yep sullivan is the kid we were going to take if we didn't make that trade. When we all get mad about BJ and pace remember theyre better than Sullivan. Sullivan is the guy who got caught eating hotdogs on the sideline during a game last year or something nutty like that.

Boy did Graves and mac blow it that year in talent evaluation.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

I can't understand why you would want to use a first rounder on a complementary RB when we have other, more significant holes to fill. You can easily find that complementary RB in the later rounds.

If we can't trade up for Matt Leinart, I like the big DT, Ngata from Oregon (sp?). He would be the final piece to make our D-line very good.

So you can't understand why we use a first rounder on a complementary running back? How about this for an answer. Our runningbacks are on pace to finish in the lowest 5 alltime rushing yards in the history of the National Football League. Is our offensive line at fault? Absolutely, but not all of the blame can be put on our O-Line. The prevailing arguement is that not even Ladanian Tomlinson could run behind our line and be successful. Would LT get 1600 yards behind our o-line? Doubtful, but would he suck as back as Shipp and Arrington have? No way. I wouldn't draft Lendale White as a complimentary back, I'd draft him to be the man. Let JJ be the change of pace guy and let White be the workhorse. 54 touchdowns in 3 seasons is awesome. If we had a goal line banger like White this year we could easily have 3 more wins (St. Louis, Carolina, Jacksonville).

 

[RobbleRobble]

D. Ferguson - 1st Pick
Steve Hutchinson <--- What are we thinking if he isn't at the top of our list?
Stepanovich/Leckey/ Maybe Bently.
L. Bently <---- Versatility makes this easy.
O. Ross <--- Don't like him but Denny does so.....

Defensive Line with our next 2 or 3 picks.

Ferguson, Hutchinson and Bently? That's definately a "best case scenario". I'd be happy if we landed one of the three.

 

[joeshmo]

No way. I wouldn't draft Lendale White as a complimentary back, I'd draft him to be the man. Let JJ be the change of pace guy and let White be the workhorse.

Well then there wouldnt have been as much debate if that was used as the reasoning for some of the White heads out there.

 

[Snakester]

Every team needs three above average CB's. While we saw very little of Rolle this year, my guess is that he'll turn out to be an excellent one. Eric Green needs more seasoning but he has all the markings of becoming an elite nickel back. Macklin has been solid but isn't what I'd call above average. Our options for getting the third CB are through the draft or in FA. Using the draft would mean that we have three CB's that are all youngsters.

I wouldn't mind going the FA route to get a little veteran help and the marquee guy available will be Nate Clements. He'd be awful expensive but is clearly a star. A CB secondary consisting of Clements, Rolle and Green would be formidable (with Macklin for dime/depth/special teams. His contract runs out in '07 I believe).
I love the thought of picking up Clements. I think you are right on with this. He would be expensive but we can afford him. He would also bring some experience to the CB position and he has just hit his prime. This is his fifth year.

The other FA that I want to target is LeCharles Bently, currently playing C with the Saints but has Pro Bowl years as a G. Not only does he offer versatility, but would be exactly what we need at LG. Addressing this in FA means we don't have to use a 1st or 2nd round pick on an O-Lineman. An O-Line of : L.Davis; L.Bently; N.Leckey; E.Brown and O. Ross will be all we need to establish a solid running game and could be as good an O-Line group out there.
Bently is suppose to be a good one. If he is as good as you say he is then he would be a good alternitive to landing Steve Hutchinson.. The only thing I would do different is I would keep him at center and put either Ross or Brown over at LG. I would still draft a guy to play RT because I don't like Ross at RT. We could draft a guy like Eric Winston in the first round or a guy like Trueblood in the second. I think Ross would be a very good guard. The line would look like this. L. Davis, Ross, Bentley, Brown, Winston. I like the looks of that line. I would keep a TE on the right side until Winston and Brown got a year under their belt together

In terms of our other key need (NT), I believe that Ryan Pickett is exactly what the doc ordered. Again, it saves us using a 1st or 2nd rounder on a run stuffing NT.
Even if we sign Pickett I think it would be a good idea to draft a guy in the second round. There are no dominant DTs in free agency this year and there will be a hand full of DTs in the second round to choose from that are run stuffer types.

All three were former #1 or #2's from Ohio State within the last four years. They are young, mean and talented. They would bring experience to an even younger group of players.

If we could pull off this tri-fecta we could use our day one picks on select skill players that we need. My picks would be as follows:

Round #1: LenDale White (6'1"/230) RB from USC. Every team needs two complementary running backs with differing attributes. White becomes the power RB and Arrington functions as the potential game breaker RB. This would make for a terrific 1-2 punch, especially behind the O-Line that I've proposed.
I do like White. He would be a nice powerback to go with Arringtons speed and shiftyness. I just think we need to go offensive line or defensive line in the first, unless we take Leinart or Bush. There is a guy that we could pickup in the second or third round named Michael Bush that is an excellent power runner as well.

Round #2: Greg Blue (6'2"210) FS from Georgia. Griffith is here for one more year.....maybe not even, especially if we can find someone like Blue. He's fast, battle tested, and is an experienced FS who is a true center-fielder with ball hawking skills.....a great compliment to Adrain Wilson. Our defensive backfield (Clements; Rolle; Green; Wilson and Blue) awesome.
I have not studied the free safeties out there yet so I cannot give an opinion on Blue. I agree that we need to get a replacement for Griffith soon. If Blue is everything you say he is then by all means lets get him.

Round #3: Best QB left on the Board. Will Jay Cutler/Charlie Whitehurst fall this far.....if so, jump all over either in a NY minute.
When it comes down to the third round then I wouldn't mind taking a chance on a guy with great upside at QB. He can sit and learn for a while. I would really like to trade up and draft Leinart instead.

I like the thought of getting Nate Clements the best.

 

[RobbleRobble]

Ferguson, Hutchinson and Bently? That's definately a "best case scenario". I'd be happy if we landed one of the three.

Top RB = very important for your fantasy football team, not nearly as important for a real NFL team.

Arrington has shown signs of coming around and I would like to see him get a chance to be the guy this year. A guy like D'Brickshaw Ferguson would help our winning a chances a lot more than adding a "complimentary" RB IMO.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Ferguson, Hutchinson and Bently? That's definately a "best case scenario". I'd be happy if we landed one of the three.

With over 20 mill to spend and one being a draft pick I don't see why we can't get all three.

Fortify the O-Line through FA. If Hutch goes anywhere it HAS to be us. Overwhelm him if you have to.
Fortify the D-Line through the Draft.

Let our CB's, WR's, & RB's grow, Let our LB's get more time together. And find a long-term Replacement for Griffith.


How bout this: Ferguson - Hutchinson - Bently - Davis - Ross????

Any questions? LOL

 

[BigDavis75]

With over 20 mill to spend and one being a draft pick I don't see why we can't get all three.

Fortify the O-Line through FA. If Hutch goes anywhere it HAS to be us. Overwhelm him if you have to.
Fortify the D-Line through the Draft.

Let our CB's, WR's, & RB's grow, Let our LB's get more time together. And find a long-term Replacement for Griffith.


How bout this: Ferguson - Hutchinson - Bently - Davis - Ross????

Any questions? LOL

Several questions, is there any possible way to get Bentley, Hutch, and Ferguson??? We need only 1/3 and I seriously doubt we get even that. Also, Davis was an excellent RG so I can see him moving there, I would rather have him there than LG, since he hasn't started a game at LG. For me though I would rather keep him at LT unless we get Ferguson. Ross has done well enough since his injury and we don't really have someone who is better than him at RT, so keep him there.

 

[Chainthroer]

Hopefully, we'll take either a big DT in the first and either an OG or OT (that can also be used at guard) in the 2nd.
after that, there's a big Center from N. Mexico named Ryan Cook - 320 lbs. He can really punch holes up the middle. I

 

[BigDavis75]

Hopefully, we'll take either a big DT in the first and either an OG or OT (that can also be used at guard) in the 2nd.
after that, there's a big Center from N. Mexico named Ryan Cook - 320 lbs. He can really punch holes up the middle. I

Isn't Ryan Cook massive? Like 6'6"? That would better suit him to be a G then IMO.

 

[Harry]

I've talked to two people in N.O. who should know and they assure me N.O. will keep Bentley, even if they have to tag him. Keep in mind that's not a hugely high dollar tag. By they way guys, give him his "e." Guys named Greene are sensitive about things like that. This is a very thin FA market. The Cards can't look for much help in it, especially on the lines. They probably would do better picking up a safety and a MLB. I'm not saying Hayes can't do the job, but he is no sure thing. That's yet another guy with a hidden "e."

 

[overseascardfan]

Ferguson, Hutchinson and Bently? That's definately a "best case scenario". I'd be happy if we landed one of the three.

Realistically unless Ferguson drops, the most realistic possibility is either Winston or McNeill if you want a OT. Hutchinson and Bentley are wonderful possibilities along w/ Clements. Either way I think the draft should go either OT, DT or DT, OT in the 1/2 rounds. Unless Vince Young comes out.

QB's such as Chris Simms, Mike McMahon, Aaron Brooks, Patrick Ramsey, and Drew Brees are QB's that could hit the open market. In my perfect draft scenario Jay Cutler is available to us in the third round.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Round #1: LenDale White (6'1"/230) RB from USC. Every team needs two complementary running backs with differing attributes. White becomes the power RB and Arrington functions as the potential game breaker RB. This would make for a terrific 1-2 punch, especially behind the O-Line that I've proposed..

Sorry spanky this would be a nightmare draft for me. We need a NT and olineman.

Besides, I cant think of one NFL team with a first round pick and a second round pick that is successfull. I cant even name too many teams that have RB's that split carries and be successful on or at a 50/50 level. JJ should be our starter. plain and simple. No reason to rock the boat.

Real successful teams have one main stud at RB. Ravens, Seattle, Green Bay(did), Chiefs. etc. etc.

 

[BACH]

Free Agency:
Hutch will get franchised. No doubt.
There's a possibility that Bentley will get tagged too, eventhough DE Howard is a FA again and the Saints tagged him last season.

Clement is going to cost a lot of money. I wouldlove to have him, but it woould be a waste IMO, since Rolle and Green have developed nicely. Use a 3rd rounder on a CB instead and spent the money on another position.

I honestly believe that we need to sign both a quality DT and OL and draft a DT and OL in the first 3 rounds. The draft is very deep at OL, so we can probably get more talent in the 2nd round than in FA, if we don't sign Hutch or Bentley. Sign a very solid starter like Backus or Metcalf and draft a OL in the 2nd.

Not a lot of options at DT in FA, but there are two players, who really have taken their game to a new level this season - Ma'ake Kemoeatu and Kendrick Clancy. The Broncos and Colts are facing massive cap problems, so both Simon and Warren are very likely cap casualties. If one of them are let go, they should signed ASAP.

Speaking of cap casualties... Lavar Arrington is going to be cut. What about signing him as our big FA if Simon and Warren aren't available.

The Draft:
The draft is very strong at OL and DL, so we can get awesome value in the 2nd and 3rd round. That is why I would use the #1 pick on our QB of the future. If Young declares he's projected to go around #12, which is where we're going to end up picking. Spending our 1st round pick on a RB is IMO stupid. More and more teams are going with a RB by commitee and RBs are easy to find later in the draft. With JJ already here a RB in the 1st would be a waste IMO. If we want to add a better RB instead of Shipp, then sign William Green.

Since the draft is so deep at OL, someone will slip to the 2nd. If we pick up a very good DT in FA, then I would go for a future FS in the 3rd. A CB/FS tweener for Griffth to groom.

My ideal scenario:
FA:
DT Simon
G Bentley
LB David Thornton
RB William Green
Re-Sign Davis

Draft:
1st QB Vince Young
2nd OT Trueblood
3rd CB/FS Anwar Philips

 

[overseascardfan]

Free Agency:
Hutch will get franchised. No doubt.
There's a possibility that Bentley will get tagged too, eventhough DE Howard is a FA again and the Saints tagged him last season.

Clement is going to cost a lot of money. I wouldlove to have him, but it woould be a waste IMO, since Rolle and Green have developed nicely. Use a 3rd rounder on a CB instead and spent the money on another position.

I honestly believe that we need to sign both a quality DT and OL and draft a DT and OL in the first 3 rounds. The draft is very deep at OL, so we can probably get more talent in the 2nd round than in FA, if we don't sign Hutch or Bentley. Sign a very solid starter like Backus or Metcalf and draft a OL in the 2nd.

Not a lot of options at DT in FA, but there are two players, who really have taken their game to a new level this season - Ma'ake Kemoeatu and Kendrick Clancy. The Broncos and Colts are facing massive cap problems, so both Simon and Warren are very likely cap casualties. If one of them are let go, they should signed ASAP.

Speaking of cap casualties... Lavar Arrington is going to be cut. What about signing him as our big FA if Simon and Warren aren't available.

The Draft:
The draft is very strong at OL and DL, so we can get awesome value in the 2nd and 3rd round. That is why I would use the #1 pick on our QB of the future. If Young declares he's projected to go around #12, which is where we're going to end up picking. Spending our 1st round pick on a RB is IMO stupid. More and more teams are going with a RB by commitee and RBs are easy to find later in the draft. With JJ already here a RB in the 1st would be a waste IMO. If we want to add a better RB instead of Shipp, then sign William Green.

Since the draft is so deep at OL, someone will slip to the 2nd. If we pick up a very good DT in FA, then I would go for a future FS in the 3rd. A CB/FS tweener for Griffth to groom.

My ideal scenario:
FA:
DT Simon
G Bentley
LB David Thornton
RB William Green
Re-Sign Davis

Draft:
1st QB Vince Young
2nd OT Trueblood
3rd CB/FS Anwar Philips

I think Simon is more of a pass rusher so I would probably go w/ Warren. Bentley would be a great acquisition along w/ Manuwai if Hutchinson is tagged. I agree w/ Young if he's there but I'm thinkng either Wright or Ngata or Williams. I like McCree out of Jacksonville. Trueblood would be a great addition and maybe another OT for depth as we learned you can never have to much especially this year. Williams would be great opposite Rolle and keep Green as a nickel back. BJ and Macklin have some trade value so we should see what they would get us on the trade market.

 

[Redrage]

Free Agency:
Hutch will get franchised. No doubt.
There's a possibility that Bentley will get tagged too, eventhough DE Howard is a FA again and the Saints tagged him last season.

Clement is going to cost a lot of money. I wouldlove to have him, but it woould be a waste IMO, since Rolle and Green have developed nicely. Use a 3rd rounder on a CB instead and spent the money on another position.

I honestly believe that we need to sign both a quality DT and OL and draft a DT and OL in the first 3 rounds. The draft is very deep at OL, so we can probably get more talent in the 2nd round than in FA, if we don't sign Hutch or Bentley. Sign a very solid starter like Backus or Metcalf and draft a OL in the 2nd.

Not a lot of options at DT in FA, but there are two players, who really have taken their game to a new level this season - Ma'ake Kemoeatu and Kendrick Clancy. The Broncos and Colts are facing massive cap problems, so both Simon and Warren are very likely cap casualties. If one of them are let go, they should signed ASAP.

Speaking of cap casualties... Lavar Arrington is going to be cut. What about signing him as our big FA if Simon and Warren aren't available.

The Draft:
The draft is very strong at OL and DL, so we can get awesome value in the 2nd and 3rd round. That is why I would use the #1 pick on our QB of the future. If Young declares he's projected to go around #12, which is where we're going to end up picking. Spending our 1st round pick on a RB is IMO stupid. More and more teams are going with a RB by commitee and RBs are easy to find later in the draft. With JJ already here a RB in the 1st would be a waste IMO. If we want to add a better RB instead of Shipp, then sign William Green.

Since the draft is so deep at OL, someone will slip to the 2nd. If we pick up a very good DT in FA, then I would go for a future FS in the 3rd. A CB/FS tweener for Griffth to groom.

My ideal scenario:
FA:
DT Simon
G Bentley
LB David Thornton
RB William Green
Re-Sign Davis

Draft:
1st QB Vince Young
2nd OT Trueblood
3rd CB/FS Anwar Philips

I think the William Green idea is intrigueing. Dude could be on a train straight out of the league if he doesn't produce and that might light a fire under his ass.

I'm higher on Blue than some. I've seen him play a good bit being that I primarily watch the SEC. Ok, not to sound like a homer but if KO SImpson comes out he may be the best afety in the draft. He's a Soph who didn't play during his first year out of highschool (not redshirt) and last year he was the SEC defensive frosh of the year and he was a preseaon all american. The kid is the fukll package. I read that right now he is projected to go in the 2nd round if he declares. He'd be a steal there.

 

[Redrage]

...and yes I have pimped KO in previous posts. South CArolina has produced some good DBs recently like Sheldon Brown and Dunta Robinson.

 

[joeshmo]

Clement is going to cost a lot of money. I wouldlove to have him, but it woould be a waste IMO, since Rolle and Green have developed nicely. Use a 3rd rounder on a CB instead and spent the money on another position.

Not a lot of options at DT in FA, but there are two players, who really have taken their game to a new level this season - Ma'ake Kemoeatu and Kendrick Clancy. The Broncos and Colts are facing massive cap problems, so both Simon and Warren are very likely cap casualties. If one of them are let go, they should signed ASAP.

Speaking of cap casualties... Lavar Arrington is going to be cut. What about signing him as our big FA if Simon and Warren aren't available.

Lavar would be a cap casualty and wouldnt mind bringing him in. him and Dansby opposite of each other is a good thing.

The Colts are not facing massive cap problem. A few tweaks here and there and they are good to go and still sign a few FA's and re-sign a few guys. As for Simon being a cap casualty, dont count on it. First they will be under the cap next year and Simon just signed a new deal and would actually cost the Colts if Cut at the tune of about 6 mill. I believe.

Kemo would be nice, but not clancy, he is a 300 lb UT type.

As for Clement, we have 30+ Mill. to spend why not on a top 3 CB easily. A much much better then Green will ever be. I like the kid but he is in no where near the league that Clement is. If you can sign a pro bowler you do it.

 

[BACH]

The Colts are not facing massive cap problem. A few tweaks here and there and they are good to go and still sign a few FA's and re-sign a few guys. As for Simon being a cap casualty, dont count on it. First they will be under the cap next year and Simon just signed a new deal and would actually cost the Colts if Cut at the tune of about 6 mill. I believe.

???

I'm sorry, Joe. You usually got all cap details under control, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

1. Simon is going to be cut if he doesn't reconstruct:

Colts | Simon’s Cap Figure Escalates in 2006 - from www.KFFL.com
Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:27:19 -0700

Mike Chappell, of the Indianapolis Star, reports Indianapolis Colts DT Corey Simon has a cap-friendly $1.5 million figure this season, but that figure will jump to $5.5 million next season then $6.95 million in 2007. In each of the final two years of the deal, Simon is scheduled to count $8 million. There is an $8 million option bonus in '06 that is not guaranteed and base salaries of $2.5 million in '06, $3.95 million in '07 and $5 million in 2008-09.

2. The Colts are going into next season with a $92M cap number. The projected cap number is expected to be $92M -$95M. Whatever excess cap space the Colts are going to have is going to be eaten by the rookie pool, right? So, lets assume that the Colts are at zero cap space.

3. The Colts have more core players becoming FAs than any other team
UFAs:
WR Reggie Wayne
FB James Mungro
RB Edgerrin James
WR Troy Walters
DE Raheem Brock
LB David Thornton
DT Larry Tripplett
LB Rocky Calmus
DT Larry Tripplett
LB Rob Morris
S Joseph Jefferson
K Mike Vanderjagt

6 starters are UFAs (including Vanderjagt) James,Vanderjagt and Wayne are all Pro-Bowl players.

RFAs:
LB Gary Brackett (RFA)
LB Cato June (RFA)
DE Robert Mathis (RFA)
S Gerome Sapp (RFA)
LB Keith O'Neil (RFA)
OT Makoa Freitas (RFA)
WR Brad Pyatt (RFA)

Yes, they are only RFAs, but look at the names. The current NFL sack leader and two very good starting LBs. All 3 is going to command the highest tender if the Colts want to keep them.

4. That Defensive Player of the year will demand a new deal...
Freeney is probably the top candidate to Defensive Player of the Year, and only has one year left on his contract. The Colts will have to pony up the biggest contract ever to a defensive player if Freeney holds out.

 

[Redsz]

So you can't understand why we use a first rounder on a complementary running back? How about this for an answer. Our runningbacks are on pace to finish in the lowest 5 alltime rushing yards in the history of the National Football League. Is our offensive line at fault? Absolutely, but not all of the blame can be put on our O-Line. The prevailing arguement is that not even Ladanian Tomlinson could run behind our line and be successful. Would LT get 1600 yards behind our o-line? Doubtful, but would he suck as back as Shipp and Arrington have? No way. I wouldn't draft Lendale White as a complimentary back, I'd draft him to be the man. Let JJ be the change of pace guy and let White be the workhorse. 54 touchdowns in 3 seasons is awesome. If we had a goal line banger like White this year we could easily have 3 more wins (St. Louis, Carolina, Jacksonville).

You can blame the poor run game on the o-line. For the first half of the year the run blocking was abysmal at best. How many times did you see JJ or Shipp get hit in the backfield or tackled for a loss? That's why we don't don't run. That's why we are last in the NFL in rushing offense. That's why we have adapted a short passing game. Not because JJ 'sucks' as you put it.

And yet after using a high 2nd round pick on JJ Arrington, who is now starting to come into his own, you want to use another high draft pick on a RB when the Cardinals could use it towards drafting a NT, FS, LG or even a long term solution at QB which are the pressing needs of this team.

 

[Redsz]

Well then there wouldnt have been as much debate if that was used as the reasoning for some of the White heads out there.

To me atleast, it's a moot point. Because Green isn't going to draft a full time or complimentary RB in the first round considering he just used a high second on JJ Arrington.

Additionally, Green has said over and over again that it's not the QB's or RB's, but it's the line. And I would bet it's far more likely that he looks to fix the line, than he looks to draft more skill postions and have similar results.

I'm thinking that if SF doesn't draft Reggie Bush, that Lendale White ends up a 9er.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Real successful teams have one main stud at RB. Ravens, Seattle, Green Bay(did), Chiefs. etc. etc.

Hmmmm....The Chiefs had TWO good backs....Priest Holmes AND Larry Johnson. And the same could be said for the Ravens with Lewis AND Taylor. And the Packers have Green AND Davenport.

Now, the question is: Should we use a high 1st rounder on a runningback? We could definitely use a top level back, but is it worth it with all of our needs? Personally, I go with best available player, whether that's Len Dale White, Deangelo Williams, Ferguson, etc. Green and Co should draft the BPA not highest need...

Two positions I would downgrade though: Receiver and Corner. I also don't like using high picks on safeties (Roy Williams, Shaun Taylor, etc. have never been worth it) and Tight ends...

 

[Duckjake]

I wonder what it will take to get Ricky Williams from Miami. I think he'd be a solid replacement for Shipp if he doesn't cost too much.

I know a lot of people think he's gone to pot but I think he's still got a couple of good years left in him. The only question I have is if he can still be the power runner he was in years past.