"Naive question," you may say.

[RugbyMuffin]

As well I can't believe domestic assault gets you two games and a guys repeat minor drug offense gets an entire season suspension.

It is a direct effect of our legal system.

People still go to jail for smoking pot, but politicians that screw millions of people out of billions of dollars, and circumvent, under mine our entire society/country for their own benefits, get fines, and firm talking to's.

What it comes down to, sadly, and pathetically, is there is no money in domestic violence, and big money in drugs, so well....that speaks for itself.

Its FUBAR.

 

[Chopper0080]

Are you saying that the state pays twice that in treatment of marijuana? I seriously need a link for that one.

I am working on this for you. I work in the judicial system, and am trying to find something onlie that you can view as well.

 

[D-Dogg]

I am working on this for you. I work in the judicial system, and am trying to find something onlie that you can view as well.

It better be focused strictly on the costs associated with MJ rehab, and not other substances.

And then that should also be balanced against the costs of jail, trial and policing of the substance as well if you really want to put costs on the table vs. the tax revenue.

We can dismiss the violent crime and policing costs associated with trafficking at the moment since we are only talking about a state-by-state legalization atmosphere and not a federally recognized, nationwide legalization.

 

[ozzfloyd]

Rehab for a pot head is being broke and not being able to smoke for a few days.

 

[D-Dogg]

It better be focused strictly on the costs associated with MJ rehab, and not other substances.

And then that should also be balanced against the costs of jail, trial and policing of the substance as well if you really want to put costs on the table vs. the tax revenue.

We can dismiss the violent crime and policing costs associated with trafficking at the moment since we are only talking about a state-by-state legalization atmosphere and not a federally recognized, nationwide legalization.

Oh, and also this should be represented as cost per patient (and compared to other substance treatment programs) and then a line item to denote the portion of that which is dedicated to start-up, training and infrastructure costs, with a projection of future cost per patient once those startup costs have been absorbed.

 

[desertdawg]

I am learning so much in this thread! :haveadrink:

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Rehab for a pot head is being broke and not being able to smoke for a few days.

+1

 

[EndZone]

Most use marijuana for one reason...to get high, period.

The "medicinal" use is just a ploy to get it more accepted and legalized, at least IMO. I know that is an "all inclusive" statement and I know that marijuana can be used for medicinal purposes and is effective in certain medical situations.

BUT, like alcohol, the main purpose is to get the euphoria and "buzz" that comes with the substance. It really is that simple to me.

Like most causes that people are championing the ancillary benefits of the situation are added in to make it more palatable and less sinister to get the goal accomplished. In marijuana's case, it is to get it legalized under the guise of the "benefits" it carries with it.

I am in favor of its legalization across the board. Don't care what it is used for or why someone would smoke it. I believe it is no more of a danger (and maybe less) than pounding down a bunch of beers or mixed drinks. If people want to be trashed and get wasted then that's up to them. Of course, that goes with the caveat that they don't endanger others by driving their car while being trashed and wasted, for instance.

The health care costs from abusers being physically affected won't be any different than rehab for alcohol, pain killers or any other substance that people already abuse anyway. Rugby had it right as far as those issues being present, madness, power and control.

It is a complex issue due to many, many years of laws and control of what drugs are legal/illegal and those in control won't let go easily. The "war on drugs" for the last 25 or 30 years is a farce and has done NOTHING to stop anything.

As far as the NFL guys continuing to be caught doing it, they are stupidly ignoring the consequences for the pursuit of selfish pleasures. As I said before, they just want to get high, period. It isn't to soothe their pain or medicate themselves, it is to be wasted. At least, that's what I think.

As long as it is illegal and as long as the league determines that it is not acceptable, then the players take the risk and must live with the consequences. Until that changes they will forfeit their privilege of playing in the league for a while or, eventually, permanently.

Maybe this wasn't the forum for all of that but I get tired of the excuses, the arguments over the penalties and the constant rationalizations of why it SHOULD be OK in these cases. It ISN'T OK at this time, it is illegal and that's the fact. Maybe it will change but until it does the players need to "just say no" until it does.

Forgive my soap box diatribe, but I had to vent. Sorry if it offends anyone, these are just my thoughts.

/rant off

Well put!

 

[Chopper0080]

It better be focused strictly on the costs associated with MJ rehab, and not other substances.

And then that should also be balanced against the costs of jail, trial and policing of the substance as well if you really want to put costs on the table vs. the tax revenue.

We can dismiss the violent crime and policing costs associated with trafficking at the moment since we are only talking about a state-by-state legalization atmosphere and not a federally recognized, nationwide legalization.

If that is what you want, you aren't going to get it. You can "win" the arguement or say I am full of crap if that is what it is going to take.

The state's offender services budget is not limited to treatment costs. Treatment sessions are normally split between the defendant and the state, with the state paying the majority of the cost. In general terms, if the deucation class costs $40 per session, the state will pay $25 and the defendant will pay $15. Same goes with UAs, & ETGs. The state will voucher defendant's costs due to financial hardship which happens a significant portion of the time, even if it is just some of the classes.

Moreover, there is never going to be a breakdown of treatment for any specific drug. Honestly, I saw less cases for possession that required offender services than I did for theft cases, and that was before the legalization. And while there is no real basis for the arguement that marijuana is a "gateway drug" it doesn't change the fact that a majority criminal addicts cite marijuana use along with other illeagal substances. Not all marijuana users are going to use heroin, but most heroin users use marijuana.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

The top word I associate with every pot smoker I have ever known, including my present roommate is:

1. Procrastinate

(except for when it comes to getting and having their next high)

2. Ascew (everthing they do seems to be a bit off - mistake prone, poor judgement, and excuse oriented)

3. Conspiratory - great tendency to believe all sorts of conspiracy theories, pseudo-science, and internet gossip.

 

[CardLogic]

2. Ascew

I think you were high when you wrote this.

:BIM: askew

 

[puckhead]

I think you were high when you wrote this.

:BIM: askew

Or he's just putting off correcting it.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Rehab for a pot head is being broke and not being able to smoke for a few days.

Also known as "Breaking your car window and rifling through your chit".

 

[ozzfloyd]

Also known as "Breaking your car window and rifling through your chit".

Yeah, because stoners are big-time petty thieves too.
Your typical pot smoker is not going to go looking to jack your stuff to score weed for his next fix. He'll just not be high until he can buy more or bum some off a friend. This isn't meth or smack we're talking about here.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Yeah, because stoners are big-time petty thieves too.
Your typical pot smoker is not going to go looking to jack your stuff to score weed for his next fix. He'll just not be high until he can buy more or bum some off a friend. This isn't meth or smack we're talking about here.

I'm not attacking weed.. But your delusional if you think people don't steal for pot $$

Hell, I went to school with a kid who robbed a local RV center of all their radios.. He needed weed $$

I'm sure you think the spike in homelessness since the legalization of weed in Colorado, is nothing more than coincidence?

Btw.. what profile accurately depicts the "typical pot smoker"?

 

[ozzfloyd]

Lol. The spike in homelessness is due to homeless from out of state moving to CO. If you're homeless, may as well move somewhere where you won't get hassled for smoking. Seems logical. It's more of a product of surrounding states with outdated, draconian laws than legalization. I'm sure a lot of these imports will leave when winter comes.

Pot harms society about as much, or likely less than alcohol. Sure, some smokers may steal for weed money, but it's more akin to kids making a beer run than a meth or heroin junkie whose willing to steal and maybe event use violence to get their next fix as they're going thru withdrawal. And if you think it is the same I'd say you were the delusional one. Will you be railing at the folks drinking beer at the Cards game? As it's really on the same level.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

And if you think it is the same I'd say you were the delusional one. Will you be railing at the folks drinking beer at the Cards game? As it's really on the same level.

Never even remotely implied it.

 

[desertdawg]

All I know is if you puffing the kind while the NFL is trying to make a point, your done and you could possibly lose more money than Dave Chappelle. This takes a person that is very stupid... millions of dollars... or the blunt. I partake more than anybody here but if you offer me even $250,000... what blunt?

 

[BullheadCardFan]

All I know is if you puffing the kind while the NFL is trying to make a point, your done and you could possibly lose more money than Dave Chappelle. This takes a person that is very stupid... millions of dollars... or the blunt. I partake more than anybody here but if you offer me even $250,000... what blunt?

Exactly

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Or he's just putting off correcting it.

2nd hand smoke? Lol

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

All I know is if you puffing the kind while the NFL is trying to make a point, your done and you could possibly lose more money than Dave Chappelle. This takes a person that is very stupid... millions of dollars... or the blunt. I partake more than anybody here but if you offer me even $250,000... what blunt?

It's really just this simple.

 

[D-Dogg]

If that is what you want, you aren't going to get it. You can "win" the arguement or say I am full of crap if that is what it is going to take.

The state's offender services budget is not limited to treatment costs. Treatment sessions are normally split between the defendant and the state, with the state paying the majority of the cost. In general terms, if the deucation class costs $40 per session, the state will pay $25 and the defendant will pay $15. Same goes with UAs, & ETGs. The state will voucher defendant's costs due to financial hardship which happens a significant portion of the time, even if it is just some of the classes.

Moreover, there is never going to be a breakdown of treatment for any specific drug. Honestly, I saw less cases for possession that required offender services than I did for theft cases, and that was before the legalization. And while there is no real basis for the arguement that marijuana is a "gateway drug" it doesn't change the fact that a majority criminal addicts cite marijuana use along with other illeagal substances. Not all marijuana users are going to use heroin, but most heroin users use marijuana.

So basically, you threw out a large, questionable claim that you don't really have the true stats to back up, and especially broken down to isolate the affect of the substance itself to compare to the actual tax revenue from the substance.

Your framing of it alluded to some knowledge that MJ treatment cost twice the amount of $ than the tax revenue it brought in. That's an unfounded number that you can't support even on its face, even without taking into account the reduction in policing the issue, jailing the offenders and court and other judicial processing costs.

It isn't about "winning" an argument. You laid out a pretty big claim:

Yes, taxes on marijuana do generate revenue for the state, but the state pays out twice that in treatment for addicted criminal offenders who can't quit the suddenly addictive drug.

That can't be backed up and especially not to the stringency of which I ask. And the reason I ask in such a matter is because if I were the person making the decision to vote for it or not, and this was an element of my decision, the complete ROI picture or net cost to the society would be a crucial part of my decision. It initially sounded like you had some insight into this, but it appears you don't.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a dick. I would LOVE to see the numbers laid out the way I am asking for them to be. However, I don't believe they would be net positive for the anti-legalization side of the argument. In fact, my opinion is that if you isolate all the variables you will have a significant net positive ROI that would have every state in the nation pushing for legalization ASAP and spending that sweet, sweet green lucre before its even realized.

 

[schutd]

You may want to include the cost of enforcing the illegality in your equation. Cops, judges, prisons, etc.

Not to mention the amount of money spent on treatment for the legal drug known as alcohol. Id love to see the report where CO is spending twice as much on treatment as they take in from taxation. Everything Ive read is its been an ENORMOUS windfall for the states coffers.