nash is back
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cly2tw
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I don't remember one single time Nash dribbled deep into the paint. He didn't have many chances to turn it over this way. With saved energy, his shots felt better as his defense.
nowagimp
Registered User
Raja is back, Nash is back, LB is back(shooting), damn everybody came back. OR, shaq is nearly integrated (and improved outside shooting is improving spacing) and making everyone else better, giving nash more room to operate. Certainly shaqs low post production is giving the outside shooters more room.
Rab
Angry Vedder
Nash seemed like a 2 guard sometimes last night. He got a lot of shots of double teams and kick outs. It was strange to see.
joshstmarie
Hall of Famer
NO, NASH HAS DEF LOST A STEP!!!!!
Nash to me no longer appears to be pressing. He is making better decisions with the ball. My gosh is he shooting lights out from 3. Every time he puts one up I am shocked if it doesn't fall.
Nash was either trying to do too much or he was hurting.
Nash was either trying to do too much or he was hurting.
LV-Suns
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No
not even close
Bufalay
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Most importantly Diaw doesn't suck that much!!
Michael
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Only his assists seem to be low, lately. Very likely for Chris Paul to grab the title of assists leader this year.
Not that it matters too much, though.
Not that it matters too much, though.
jbeecham
ASFN Addict
Nash & Paul are tied at 11.3 apg right now (Paul's played 2 less games and has 27 fewer assists overall). Nash plays less minutes and beats him in assists per 48 minutes 15.8 to Paul's 14.4 per 48m. Paul has a lot less turnovers (162 total, 2.5/gm) than Nash (249 total, 3.8/gm) or Deron Williams (240 total, 3.5/gm) or Jason Kidd (227 total, 3.4/gm). Paul has already taken the reins from Nash as best PG in the league (especially when defense is included in the evaluation) so he might as well take his assists title too.
nashman
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I disagree that CP has taken over as the best PG. He hasn't proved anything when it matters the most, the playoffs. If I got a playoff game to win its Nash as my PG hands down, he's clutch and is still the best PG in the game, CP is right behind him until he does something other than regular season victories.
jbeecham
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I think Nash is better at making great passes and finding guys when it looks like no one is open, but trying to make those difficult passes also leads to more turnovers and obviously his defense is no where near the level of Paul's defense. Chris Paul is #1 is steals in the entire NBA at 2.7/gm, the next closest Baron Davis at 2.38/gm. On top of that, Paul's leading a team less talented than the Suns to one of the best records in the NBA. Nash is better offensively (although Paul averages 21.6ppg) and is a better shooter in every category, but Paul isn't far behind shooting 49.4% fg, 36.8% 3pt, and 86.5% ft this season. I think when you add in Paul's defense then he becomes better than Nash.
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nashman
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Again what has CP ever done when it counts? Has he even got his team to the playoffs before? Ever made clutch daggers in the playoffs? Just saying that until CP does some of these things I am still taking Nash over him come playoff time. Maybe in a year or two CP will be better, in my eyes hes not yet as he is unproven when it counts, lots of regular season guys that suck it up come playoff time and pressure.
jbeecham
ASFN Addict
ok fair enough......Chris Paul is the best "regular season" PG in the NBA right now
Interesting to note that Paul idolized Nash as a youth and has professed to modeling his game (at least on the offensive end) after Steve. Quite a compliment and something CP3 fans conveniently forget when they try to prop up Paul at the expense of Nash.
Informed of this during the latest all-star game Nash said it made him feel "flattered, and a little old". I definitely got a feeling of the "changing of the guard" during Hornets/Suns matchups this season.
Based on the facts mentioned above Paul would seem to be the better all around point guard at this point in time. However I don't see one-tenth of the jaw-dropping creativity and intelligence from Paul that I saw in Nash during his prime (and continue to see). Steve also leaves him in the dust shooting-wise. He has elements to his game that I can't even really describe without resorting to comparisons to high art.
On the defensive end, gimme Paul, on the offensive end, it's still Nash any day of the week. Mark my words, if the Hornets and Suns meet up during the playoffs we'll see who is truly the best. You can guess my opinion. I don't think Nash is quite ready to pass the torch.
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I don't remember one single time Nash dribbled deep into the paint. He didn't have many chances to turn it over this way. With saved energy, his shots felt better as his defense.
We pretty much look at it the same way. Nash has adapted his game in regard to not having to create plays for others by driving deep into the lane looking for a kick out pass. He is using Shaq more to create plays in the key. I am much happier because opposing defenses were not only hammering him on the outside but especially on the inside.
Anyway now if Nash wants to create by driving deep into the key it is more because he wants to do it rather than he has to do it. I think Nash previously was forcing the issue which created turnovers. Also I think Nash has lost some speed which is not all bad because speed is not what makes Nash so special. It's his decision making, passing ability and his shooting accuracy both inside and out. As I look at it, the arrival of Shaq may prolong Nash's career because he does not have to take all the inside pounding.
nowagimp
Registered User
some points:
1) steals is not a good indicator of overall defensive ability. Marion gets alot of steals, much more than prince, but I'd take prince as a defender in a heartbeat. Steals is an indication of gambling on defense, which paul can afford to do with tyson chandler backing him up. Nash has had amare for most of the season backing him up, case closed there. The suns have a recent history of terrible post defenders, no backup for the perimeter defenders. Baron Davis and Deron Williams take CP3 to school all the time, he cant defend those guys, just like like nash. Is Paul a better defender than Nash, yes, but hes not a good defender at the PG IMO.
2) Paul Kills the suns, but he is an average outside shooter , DWil is a better shooter, defender and is playoff proven. Nash is a way better shooter than both, just check the stats. Paul is a 33% shooter from 3 pt range career wise, not quite as good as shawn marion. Perhaps he will get better with time.
3) the hornets arent as talented as the suns? Well maybe that is true, but West is very underrated PF, certainly much better defensively than amare, and no sun can defend West. West has a more sophisticated game than amare, a whole range of moves that he uses with deadly effect. Peja is argueably a better shooter than any sun save Nash, a former all star for his outside shot(41% career, 46% from 3 this year), and Tyson Chandler is a better post defender than any sun.
The hornets bench of Wells, Bobby Jackson, Mike James and Mo Peterson looks better than Diaw, Barbosa, GG, and skinner to me. I would say that before the shaq trade, the hornets were a better balanced, certainly a better rebounding team.
The irony is that CP3 has a decent backup PG(Jackson), but Nash doesnt when Nash @ 34 is much more in need of one. How many wins would the suns have with a decent backup PG? 50?
As far as the stats go, I expect Nashs asst numbers to drop with shaq, as the diesel is a very good passer himself. The hornets NEED Paul to get alot of assts, the "new look" suns are less dependent on nash with guys like Diaw, shaq and Hill dishing dimes.
If I was going to pick a PG to start a team around, I'd take Deron Williams over Paul, for the better defense and better shooting. When the playoffs start and things get more physical, DWil shines, he is one tough PG. CP3 needs to show he can play that kind of physical game, the kind that counts in the NBA.
Dont get me wrong, I love the way CP3 plays the game, he's the most fun to watch at this time. I just think he's not playoff proven and his small physical stature may be an issue int he playoffs.
Bufalay
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Awesome! The Hornets have two good backup PG's in James and Jackson and a solid all around contributer in Wells.
On the other hand the Suns have Diaw and Joe Johnson as well as Shaq, Marion, Kurt Thomas, Quentin Richardson and Marbury.
joshstmarie
Hall of Famer
bobby jax is a rocket
You had me until then. Amare is still average close to 30 points per game against Hornets isn't he? West is guarding Amare most of the time. So if he can't stop Amare I would hardly call that "much". Amare might not be as good defense wise but that is not saying much. Even though West can score he is also not as explosive offensively and nearly as dominate and unguardable as Amare is much of the time.
French Fries
Mangaworm
you guys really think west is underrated? other than being ridiculously agile and able to make jumpshots there's really nothing special about the guy. he's good and all but he's not someone to be scared of, at least not in the western conference's lineup of talent...
nowagimp
Registered User
This year amare has gone for 16, 17, 26, 32= 23ppg against the hornets
West has gone for 15, DNPinjured, 21 27= 21ppg
Not such a big edge is there?
And Al Jefferson didnt abuse the hornets for 30/14 in two games did he?
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nowagimp
Registered User
Without west the hornets dont have an inside out game at all. He is their low post presence on offense. You dont think Pargos mo petes, and pejas open jumpers are because the suns forgot they were on the team do you?
Now with shaq in a suns uni, things will be different. But then Nashs stats werent accumulated with shaq int he lineup and the comparison of CP3 and Nash is using mostly pre shaq stats for Nash, and the terrible defense the preceded shaqs arrival that CP3 took advantage of.
nowagimp
Registered User
The premise here was made that CP3 is a good defender or at least good enough to make him better han Nash as PG. I disputed that part as when you have good defensive bigs behind you, you looks like a much better defender as when your man beats you, your back is covered. Well CP3's back has been covered and Nashs has not ... until now. Why dont you ask Jarret Jack why he couldnt take advantage of Nashs defense last night? Get the drift?
French Fries
Mangaworm
he'll disappear in the playoffs since there's not a lot of guys he can post up among playoff teams. like i said, he's good, just not scary good. if the hornets are to win it all, either west or chandler needs to be upgraded. and he made the all star team IN THE WEST (and i don't disagree). if that's still underrated then i don't know how much appreciation is needed...
