nash is back

[nowagimp]

We pretty much look at it the same way. Nash has adapted his game in regard to not having to create plays for others by driving deep into the lane looking for a kick out pass. .

It also could be that defenses cannot afford to be so preoccupied with Nash and his kickouts when shaq is around. The suns are less predictable as they can do something other than kick the ball out.

 

[nowagimp]

he'll disappear in the playoffs since there's not a lot of guys he can post up among playoff teams. like i said, he's good, just not scary good. if the hornets are to win it all, either west or chandler needs to be upgraded. and he made the all star team IN THE WEST (and i don't disagree). if that's still underrated then i don't know how much appreciation is needed...

I was checking wests contributions this year and the team he played best against was the spurs(yeah and TD was not injured). He absolutely scortched the spurs for 32, 29 points on 29/47 shooting in two games. Other good teams that he was high scorer for the hornets in victories included houston(2x) and utah(2x) as well as portland(2x) and denver. David West apparently has proven he can score effectively against a number of good teams with good post defenders. the hornets apparently have more talent than some have thought. Im sure Nash wouldnt mind a backup PG like Bobby Jackson to give him a rest and Jackson would likely run the offesne better than LB when nash sits.

 

[cly2tw]

CP3 is unique in that he has the KJ-type of athletic ability but plays more like Nash. Even if his passing is not as artistic as Nash's, because his ability to finish strong like KJ the defense has to be honest at the rim all the time, thus opening the passing lanes a lot more than Nash's drives would create. As a result, also a result of the league being adapted to Nash's style by now, PC3 is less prone to TOs than Nash is for the same number of assists, and more importantly higher impact on the game.

 

[passenger]

everyone is back,even shaq is back

 

[Phade]

nash playing like **** tonight

 

[mjb21aztd]

nash may have had bad turnovers tonight but he did hit some huge 3's that really allowed us to win the game

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Double double with 5/6 3pt% is ****?

 

[nowagimp]

CP3 is unique in that he has the KJ-type of athletic ability but plays more like Nash. Even if his passing is not as artistic as Nash's, because his ability to finish strong like KJ the defense has to be honest at the rim all the time, thus opening the passing lanes a lot more than Nash's drives would create. As a result, also a result of the league being adapted to Nash's style by now, PC3 is less prone to TOs than Nash is for the same number of assists, and more importantly higher impact on the game.

Naaah, cp3 doesnt have the KJ hops, but he is better in a number of other ways. KJ was a monster athletically, even cp3 cant compare. KJ's 15-17 foot jumper had incredible elevation cp3 can only dream of. But cp3 is a smarter player, and will be a better pg if he stays healthy, no doubt.

 

[cly2tw]

Naaah, cp3 doesnt have the KJ hops, but he is better in a number of other ways. KJ was a monster athletically, even cp3 cant compare. KJ's 15-17 foot jumper had incredible elevation cp3 can only dream of. But cp3 is a smarter player, and will be a better pg if he stays healthy, no doubt.

Well, the point was to explain why CP3 doesn't have as many turnovers for the same number of assists as Nash. I think he is kind of a hybrid between KJ and Nash, not as good as either at what they do best but maybe just the perfect NBA PG in the end.

 

[nowagimp]

nash may have had bad turnovers tonight but he did hit some huge 3's that really allowed us to win the game

The suns were standing around with the shot clock winding down. Half of nashs turnovers werent even his fault. The bench players were giving more effort than most of the starters. Diaw played harder than amare for crapsakes! Amare was lazy and unmotivated and had 9 turnovers of his own. Nine turnovers for a guy who doesnt run the offense is just incredible, amare needs to focus his efforts and earn his paycheck. Amare had 9 turnovers leading to at least 14 easy points, and let the sonics bigs have a ton of easy shots, pretty much undefended. And amare had the least minutes last night vs the blazers of any of the suns bigs except skinner. If amares knee is hurting, I apologize personally to him, but if not, his effort tonight sucked.. He just didnt have any motivation to play defense, and didnt take care of the ball, apparently

 

[nowagimp]

Well, the point was to explain why CP3 doesn't have as many turnovers for the same number of assists as Nash. I think he is kind of a hybrid between KJ and Nash, not as good as either at what they do best but maybe just the perfect NBA PG in the end.

We shall see, but I'd like to see him win one playoff series before annointing him as top PG int he NBA, at least one series. TMAC looked alot like kobe until the playoffs, but then .... he was not too impressive. As a suns fan, I know that regular season stats dont mean much.

 

[arwillan]

We shall see, but I'd like to see him win one playoff series before annointing him as top PG int he NBA, at least one series. TMAC looked alot like kobe until the playoffs, but then .... he was not too impressive. As a suns fan, I know that regular season stats dont mean much.

TMAC not making it past the first round isn't completely his fault. He usually plays as well as you can expect him to, it's just his team as a whole that can never seem to make it. Last year they lost to a utah team that was, in my opinion, better than the rockets were.

 

[mojorizen7]

Jinx thread.

 

[green machine]

Jinx thread.

 

[nash2crosby]

You guys are all talking about Bobby Jackson being a support behind CP3; he doesn't even play for the Hornets anymore. He's a Rocket, traded for Bonzi and Mike James.

 

[nash2crosby]

Yes, Nash had a lot of turnovers while they were figuring how to use Shaq. Were all those turnovers his fault or partly Shaq's, who hadn't really played much in the previous month?

 

[nash2crosby]

Every time Nash starts down court with the ball I'm expecting something good is going to happen...and often enough I'm smiling at the result.

 

[Phade]

nash is better than 7 turnovers or however many he had.. you cannot blame someone else for nash's turnovers..

actually the team had 27 turnovers.. wow.. no wonder they didn't spark the sonics by like 50..

 

[nash2crosby]

Then lets talk about your Nash played like **** tonite. He was 5/6 on threes and got his usual double-double. I do think you should FADE.

 

[Phade]

Then lets talk about your Nash played like **** tonite. He was 5/6 on threes and got his usual double-double. I do think you should FADE.

i could care less if he was 5/6 on three's.. he's better than 7 turnovers and if you dont think so you have his junk in your mouth..

 

[supernova]

Interesting post from the ESPN board:

I was talking to my brother about this the other day. He pointed out that statistically Nash is doing things that have never, ever, been done in terms of EFG% from the field, volume of jump shots, combined with an extremely low assisted rate. There is no precedent for this sort of shooting.

Nash obviously has an extremely pure stroke, but he seems to have absolutely mastered it these days. It's not as if he's sitting in the corners waiting for his teammates to get him a wide open jump shot. This year Hollinger argued that he was now the greatest shooter in NBA history and Hollinger is a big Nash critic.

I think we all take his shooting for granted. This year he has struggled with consistent energy either due to age or perhaps mental fatigue (he has greatly improved since Shaq arrived) when compared to guys like Paul and Williams, yet I still think we take his shooting for granted.

Players with high EFG% on jump shots and their assisted rate :

Ray Allen: 51.6% (69% assisted)
Posey : 53.9% (90% )
Matt Carroll: 52.5% (85% )
Daniel Gibson: 61.% (76%)
Anthony Parker: 56.3% (79%)
Jason Kapono: 56% (83%)
S. Vujacic: 56.5% (91%)
K. Korver: 57% (94%)
Caldron: 56.6 (37%)
Barbosa: 51% (72%)
Nash: 60.4% (24%)

Nash is an anomaly. He's a ridiculously efficient shooter who doesn't sit in the corner and take wide open 3s (eg. Gibson) or take a low volume of threes like Calderon.

Gibson for example only makes 41.7% of his two point jump shots while Nash leads the entire NBA in that category.

For example, Gibson has taken 43.3% of his threes from the corners.

Kapono is at 53.1%.
Korver is at 56.5%
Anthony Parker is at 63.3%
Vujacic is at a low 28.3%
Ray Allen is at an impressive 26.6% ( which helps to explain his overall relatively inefficient shooting).
Nash?
6.6% !

He combines the shooting efficiency of an easy-look jump shooting specialist with the degree of difficulty of a low percentage volume bailout shooter . It's really quite remarkable. Those who understand what Nash does aren't surprised that Suns could win without Amare and now without Marion, yet seem to fall apart whenever Nash is out.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

That's because Nash has accepted the Pick'n'Roll as his Lord and savior.

 

[nowagimp]

Interesting post from the ESPN board:

I was talking to my brother about this the other day. He pointed out that statistically Nash is doing things that have never, ever, been done in terms of EFG% from the field, volume of jump shots, combined with an extremely low assisted rate. There is no precedent for this sort of shooting.

Nash obviously has an extremely pure stroke, but he seems to have absolutely mastered it these days. It's not as if he's sitting in the corners waiting for his teammates to get him a wide open jump shot. This year Hollinger argued that he was now the greatest shooter in NBA history and Hollinger is a big Nash critic.

I think we all take his shooting for granted. This year he has struggled with consistent energy either due to age or perhaps mental fatigue (he has greatly improved since Shaq arrived) when compared to guys like Paul and Williams, yet I still think we take his shooting for granted.

Players with high EFG% on jump shots and their assisted rate :

Ray Allen: 51.6% (69% assisted)
Posey : 53.9% (90% )
Matt Carroll: 52.5% (85% )
Daniel Gibson: 61.% (76%)
Anthony Parker: 56.3% (79%)
Jason Kapono: 56% (83%)
S. Vujacic: 56.5% (91%)
K. Korver: 57% (94%)
Caldron: 56.6 (37%)
Barbosa: 51% (72%)
Nash: 60.4% (24%)

Nash is an anomaly. He's a ridiculously efficient shooter who doesn't sit in the corner and take wide open 3s (eg. Gibson) or take a low volume of threes like Calderon.

Gibson for example only makes 41.7% of his two point jump shots while Nash leads the entire NBA in that category.

For example, Gibson has taken 43.3% of his threes from the corners.

Kapono is at 53.1%.
Korver is at 56.5%
Anthony Parker is at 63.3%
Vujacic is at a low 28.3%
Ray Allen is at an impressive 26.6% ( which helps to explain his overall relatively inefficient shooting).
Nash?
6.6% !

He combines the shooting efficiency of an easy-look jump shooting specialist with the degree of difficulty of a low percentage volume bailout shooter . It's really quite remarkable. Those who understand what Nash does aren't surprised that Suns could win without Amare and now without Marion, yet seem to fall apart whenever Nash is out.

Yep nash is probably the best pure shooter in the NBA today considering he creates more of his own shots than those catch and shoot guys. Now that shaq is dishing dimes, perhaps Nash can be used more as a spot up shooter. I do think that Ray Allen is the best shooter of contested long range jumpshots, he shoots over guys easier due to his length and hops. Gibson and Kapono shoot alot of wide open shots, as their defenders are mostly helping elsewhere. The fact that Nash is such an accurate shooter while putting so much energy into creating shots for others is amazing. Most on that list do not create for others, they just sit on a wing and wait for the ball. Nash is fatigued I think because he is generally the target of opposing teams, they look to post him up alot and he has had no real defensive post presence behind him most of the past 4 years.

Now that shaq is here things are already changing, posting up Nash might mean bringing the diesel at you. This should help him conserve his energy. The teams that may match up most successfully against the suns will be the ones with a '5' that can shoot from outside like the pistons(Rasheed) and the jazz(Okur).

 

[malooga]

Interesting thread. A lot of what is mentioned here is I think missed by the average NBA fan. A lot of them couldn't understand how Steve could be the mvp of the league - and twice to boot! He doesn't play the game the way most of the other point guards in the league played it before he arrived. Most fans were conditioned to expecting an mvp to play like Michael Jordan with eye-popping one-on-one offensive skills. The things Steve does are easy to miss when he's surrounded by guys like Allen Iverson, Lebron James, and Dwayne Wade.

Fortunately, the people who actually get to vote for mvp could see through this and recognized that Steve has revolutionized the point guard position - and that he does a lot of incredible things too. His FG% alone puts him in a very elite group of players, especially given the kinds of shots he routinely makes. Then there are his assists, FT%, 3PT%. Oh yeah... then there's his winning record over the last 7 years on teams that were horrible when he arrived. In that period, the teams he's led are 399 - 175 for a .695 winning percentage. Not bad for a skinny boy from Canada with no athletic ability

 

[Phade]

nash is the best point guard ever and best person on the planet..

basically nash is a God.