Nash: We have no real kind of power forward

[AzStevenCal]

I wonder how many on this board would be griping and complaining about how much we paid Amare, if we had stepped up and resigned him. Seems like we were all on board with this last trade too. Interestingly enough, the Spurs path to success is to keep a team together, even if it underachieves one year.

At this point, this team has no identity and no abilitly to play fast or slow.

I still don't have a problem with not re-signing Amare. I wanted us to do it earlier in the season but his price tag clearly rose during the season. I loved watching the guy play (still do) and often commented that people were overstating his faults while ignoring his strengths. Still, we offered him about the best contract we could justify and I don't fault anyone for the way it eventually played out. Like many here, I'm more bothered how we then chose to spend the money we saved by letting him walk.

I still haven't soured on our latest trade. Gortat isn't everything we hoped for but he's the best big guy on our roster and my biggest regret is we didn't have him last season. I'd love to see him playing next to Amare in a Suns uniform.

You're right about the identity. Unfortunately, that direction is usually identified in the preseason and fleshed out in the early days of the season. We're pretty much stuck with this mess until they start cleaning house (and for quite a while after). It's past time to move Nash and receive full value but he needs to be traded even if all we receive is a late first rounder.

Steve

 

[Griffin]

I wonder how many on this board would be griping and complaining about how much we paid Amare, if we had stepped up and resigned him.

It isn't so much that the Suns didn't re-sign Amare, but that they did not replace him with anyone. It seems like the Suns management preferred to only sign players to smaller, more "manageable" contracts to avoid risk in the long run. So this translates to replacing a starting all-star power forward with three bench players. In the world of finance, that might seem like a good way to diversify your investment portfolio. In basketball, that's just bad management. Having a David Lee-type player instead of Childress and Warrick would do wonders for this team now.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It isn't so much that the Suns didn't re-sign Amare, but that they did not replace him with anyone. It seems like the Suns management preferred to only sign players to smaller, more "manageable" contracts to avoid risk in the long run. So this translates to replacing a starting all-star power forward with three bench players. In the world of finance, that might seem like a good way to diversify your investment portfolio. In basketball, that's just bad management. Having a David Lee-type player instead of Childress and Warrick would do wonders for this team now.

+1.

Steve

 

[jibikao]

It isn't so much that the Suns didn't re-sign Amare, but that they did not replace him with anyone. It seems like the Suns management preferred to only sign players to smaller, more "manageable" contracts to avoid risk in the long run. So this translates to replacing a starting all-star power forward with three bench players. In the world of finance, that might seem like a good way to diversify your investment portfolio. In basketball, that's just bad management. Having a David Lee-type player instead of Childress and Warrick would do wonders for this team now.

Exactly. Amare wanted to leave and Suns didn't want to risk 6-years. The problem is we didn't sign anybody to replace Amare. Suns signed several players that don't play Amare's position. I could be very wrong but I still think they should start Warrick with Nash on the get-go but instead they start Hedo with Nash which is chemistry problem. They had a plan but didn't stick to it and I think the whole team suffers. Lopez's injury seems to start the whole mess. blah

 

[Mainstreet]

It isn't so much that the Suns didn't re-sign Amare, but that they did not replace him with anyone. It seems like the Suns management preferred to only sign players to smaller, more "manageable" contracts to avoid risk in the long run. So this translates to replacing a starting all-star power forward with three bench players. In the world of finance, that might seem like a good way to diversify your investment portfolio. In basketball, that's just bad management. Having a David Lee-type player instead of Childress and Warrick would do wonders for this team now.

I think we all found something we can agree upon... the Suns did not find anyone remotely qualified to replace Stoudemire.

 

[AfroSuns]

I think we all found something we can agree upon... the Suns did not find anyone remotely qualified to replace Stoudemire.

absolutely no argument with that logic.

I say Gentry should just pick a starting lineup and stick with it for the remainder of the season. my preference will be:

Starter
Nash
Hill
Carter
Frye
Gortat.

Bench
Dragic
Dudley
Pietrus
Childress
Lopez


Yes, Frye sucks balls right now,he is in a funk, we cant afford to let him sink deeper, he is one of our better big man. He was playing a littl better when he was starting earlier this season, now it seems his confidence is at all time low.
Carter his no longer the vinsanity but at least he is consistent, you know you are going to get at least between 15-19pts a night from him.
Gortat is not great but he is better than Lopez and that should do, plus he needs more playing time too to get better.

I pick Childress over Warrick because Warrick is predictable (see how Amare easily swatted his dunk yesterday), all he wants to do is dunk, so can Childress and he is smarter and plays better with Dragic.
Just stick Lopez there and hope to God a ball will bounce his way.

 

[Chaplin]

I wonder how many on this board would be griping and complaining about how much we paid Amare, if we had stepped up and resigned him. Seems like we were all on board with this last trade too. Interestingly enough, the Spurs path to success is to keep a team together, even if it underachieves one year.

At this point, this team has no identity and no abilitly to play fast or slow.

Geez, JC, you too? I'm not sure how many times you have to repeat something before people will understand it.

It has nothing to do with this season, or even next season. The reason we didn't pay him was because of the last years on his deal. Period.

Griffin is right, the problem is that we didn't replace him.

 

[cly2tw]

It isn't so much that the Suns didn't re-sign Amare, but that they did not replace him with anyone. It seems like the Suns management preferred to only sign players to smaller, more "manageable" contracts to avoid risk in the long run. So this translates to replacing a starting all-star power forward with three bench players. In the world of finance, that might seem like a good way to diversify your investment portfolio. In basketball, that's just bad management. Having a David Lee-type player instead of Childress and Warrick would do wonders for this team now.

I don't think so. The only sensible move after letting Amare walk was to go into rebuilding mode right away. Warrick signing was fine. But Frye, Childress, and Hedo deals were nonsense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Geez, JC, you too? I'm not sure how many times you have to repeat something before people will understand it.

It has nothing to do with this season, or even next season. The reason we didn't pay him was because of the last years on his deal. Period.

Griffin is right, the problem is that we didn't replace him.

I think the problem is bigger than we didn't replace him. The problem is that a guy who averages 27 ppg and 9 rebounds is basically IRREPLACEABLE.

 

[Griffin]

I don't think so. The only sensible move after letting Amare walk was to go into rebuilding mode right away. Warrick signing was fine. But Frye, Childress, and Hedo deals were nonsense.

Perhaps a Lee-type player would not turn us into a title contender (many would argue that even with Amare we were never really much of a title contender), but we certainly wouldn't be 6 games under .500 if we had a reliable power forward, no?

I think the problem is bigger than we didn't replace him. The problem is that a guy who averages 27 ppg and 9 rebounds is basically IRREPLACEABLE.

But do we need a guy as dominant offensively as Amare to be competitive in this league? I think a less risky and a bit cheaper 20/10 player would have come close to making up for Amare's absence. But as it stands, we have nobody.

 

[JS22]

I'm thinking the Suns need to just hire me as GM. According to NBA 2K11, I should be able to get them the #1 seed next season.

Nash / Dragic
Richardson / Affalo
Dudley / Korver
A. Randolph / T. Murphy
Millsap / Frye (And a washed up, but still effective, Kurt Thomas.)

Sarver, are you reading this? Tell me where to mail my resume.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Perhaps a Lee-type player would not turn us into a title contender (many would argue that even with Amare we were never really much of a title contender), but we certainly wouldn't be 6 games under .500 if we had a reliable power forward, no?

But do we need a guy as dominant offensively as Amare to be competitive in this league? I think a less risky and a bit cheaper 20/10 player would have come close to making up for Amare's absence.

uh, those guys don't grow on trees either.

 

[Mainstreet]

It would have been nice if the Suns had gone after a legitimate PF in free agency such as Drew Gooden. Instead Sarver makes all these other signings in the off season that are more or less finesse players.

 

[SunsTzu]

I don't think so. The only sensible move after letting Amare walk was to go into rebuilding mode right away. Warrick signing was fine. But Frye, Childress, and Hedo deals were nonsense.

Completely agree. I was against the Frye deal at the time but some of the prevailing wisdom was that other players are getting overpaid so the Suns should overpay Frye.

I just found the Hedo deal bizarre. It seemed like a deal the Suns would make knowing they have a deal in place for a good PF and the team will be competitive, yet I knew their intention was to play Hedo at PF. Amazes me how professional basketball minds could have thought that was a good idea.

 

[Griffin]

uh, those guys don't grow on trees either.

Perhaps not but even a 15/7 PF would make a big difference, and it's really hard to believe that we don't have anyone on our roster who could even do that. However, Lee did average 20/12 last season (15/10 this year after major injury). And Lee was very much available. So no, I don't think that losing Amare alone meant the team was done. Losing Amare and not having any sort of a contingency plan other than to start a SF in his place, that is what started this mess. Utah lost Boozer and they are doing fine. Of course it helped that they replaced him with another PF who is averaging 17/9 this season.

 

[devilalum]

C
I just found the Hedo deal bizarre. It seemed like a deal the Suns would make knowing they have a deal in place for a good PF and the team will be competitive, yet I knew their intention was to play Hedo at PF. Amazes me how professional basketball minds could have thought that was a good idea.

You can't really rip the Hedo deal anymore because the deal is now LB for Gortat and Pietrus.

 

[BC867]

Did you see that Hedo had 17 assists as Orlando beat Dallas by ten on the road yesterday?

It's amazing how good a player can be when on a team that plays him at the right position -- a phrase that the Suns front office just can't grasp.

It ain't rocket science, friends. It's common sense.

 

[Chaplin]

Did you see that Hedo had 17 assists as Orlando beat Dallas by ten on the road yesterday?

It's amazing how good a player can be when on a team that plays him at the right position -- a phrase that the Suns front office just can't grasp.

It ain't rocket science, friends. It's common sense.

They may not have started him at the 3, but he certainly played more of the 3 during the last few games he played with us. Your tired argument doesn't really work. And he still was terrible. Steve Nash is the reason why he didn't get 17 assists for us.

 

[AfroSuns]

I still think Hedo will suck on any team that intend on making him a second or third option. I cringe sometimes when the guy shoots, but with players like Howard dominating inside now, he can get away with it.
If Amare was here with Hedo, we would have most likely returned to the WCF and very likely the NBA final.

 

[elindholm]

Did you see that Hedo had 17 assists as Orlando beat Dallas by ten on the road yesterday?

It's amazing how good a player can be when on a team that plays him at the right position -- a phrase that the Suns front office just can't grasp.

It ain't rocket science, friends. It's common sense.

And you believe that Turkoglu would be just as effective if his center was Joe D-League instead of Dwight Howard? Or does the quality of the players at the power positions also matter? I don't think that's rocket science either.

Next time the Suns turn down an opportunity to acquire a center like Howard, get back to me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You can't really rip the Hedo deal anymore because the deal is now LB for Gortat and Pietrus.

Actually, wouldn't it be more like LB and JR for Gortat, Pietrus and Carter. The loss of JR is really showing right now, hopefully Gentry can work someone else into the scoring role.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Steve Nash is the reason why he didn't get 17 assists for us.

Exactly! Nash is a dominant Point Guard and Hedo is a Point Forward. That's why our Front Office shouldn't have even thought of bringing him here . . . as well as hoping to change him from a Small Forward into a Power Forward, following Amar'e.

And you believe that Turkoglu would be just as effective if his center was Joe D-League instead of Dwight Howard?

I do?!? 'Still more proof that Turkoglu couldn't maximize his talents here and the Front Office should have anticipated that.

And that the Front Office has been oblivious to the concept of team chemistry. Finding the right piece for every place in the puzzle.

That's obvious. with our preponderance of Wings and, as Steve said, "We don't really have a Power Forward.", even after the second trade.

I commend Channing Frye for trying hard, but he has to be perfect to fit that role and, as we've seen, it's a stretch.

 

[jibikao]

And you believe that Turkoglu would be just as effective if his center was Joe D-League instead of Dwight Howard? Or does the quality of the players at the power positions also matter? I don't think that's rocket science either.

Next time the Suns turn down an opportunity to acquire a center like Howard, get back to me.

I think it's more about finding the "right pieces". I had a feeling Turkoglu wouldn't fit the team because he is a pretty good "point forward" but this team didn't have anybody that's even 50% as reliable as Howard down low and the team still relies on Nash creating shots. Turkoglu is pretty ineffective without the ball.

I kinda like Turkoglu as a player. I think he is pretty smart but he'll need a guy like Howard to be even better and Howard needs somebody like Turkoglu. Much like Amare/Nash combo. It works both way. Magic's offense was pretty bad before they made the trade but now they are so efficient with Turkoglu passing and Richardson scoring.

I do think defense-wise, it is easier to defend with Howard down-low because he makes opponents think twice before they try to come in and dunk; whereas when Turk/Richardson were here, the opponents almost had a free-pass to drive in and score because our interior threat is non-existent.

 

[jibikao]

Exactly! Nash is a dominant Point Guard and Hedo is a Point Forward. That's why our Front Office shouldn't have even thought of bringing him here . . . as well as hoping to change him from a Small Forward into a Power Forward, following Amar'e.


I do?!? 'Still more proof that Turkoglu couldn't maximize his talents here and the Front Office should have anticipated that.

And that the Front Office has been oblivious to the concept of team chemistry. Finding the right piece for every place in the puzzle.

That's obvious. with our preponderance of Wings and, as Steve said, "We don't really have a Power Forward.", even after the second trade.

I commend Channing Frye for trying hard, but he has to be perfect to fit that role and, as we've seen, it's a stretch.

I agree and I also think Gentry thought Lopez could have helped more. The whole slide starts when Lopez got injured and then Suns tried to find a new center and other so-called Defense help. Not sure how much our defense has improved... our offense certainly has gotten worse.

 

[BC867]

Despite the criticism of his defense (and I certainly value playing defense), Hakim Warrick is back in the rotation and delivering.

Lifting the team with slam dunks (I think they said he is sixth in the league, despite a lot of bench time). Rebounding. Making his free throws. (Just as I typed that, he missed his first two of the night.)

He's not an ideal Power Forward at 219 lbs., but he's the best we have to backup Frye, now that Frye is starting to play like a big man.

I can even accept Frye and Warrick getting 4th quarter minutes at C and PF (did I say that?) at this time.