NAZ tryouts Sept 29

[Mainstreet]

Was it? He nixed a trade for Shai Gilgeous-Alexander... I like Bridges but I find it difficult to say he was the better choice over SGA, especially given our needs.

Looking back it's hard to see why Ryan McDonough was not fired before the 2018 Draft.

Aside from Devin Booker his second best draft pick was probably Bogdan Bogdanovic who he traded before he ever put on a Suns uniform. TJ Warren was traded for negative value. I think Ayton was the consensus choice by Sarver and the Suns organization.

You mention Shai but McDonough passed over De'Aaron Fox in the 2017 Draft to select Josh Jackson.

It should never have come down to Shai or Bridges much less McDonough making that choice. Thankfully it didn't.

 

[Hoop Head]

Looking back it's hard to see why Ryan McDonough was not fired before the 2018 Draft.

Aside from Devin Booker his second best draft pick was probably Bogdan Bogdanovic who he traded before he ever put on a Suns uniform. TJ Warren was traded for negative value.

You mention Shai but McDonough passed over De'Aaron Fox in the 2017 Draft to select Josh Jackson.

It should never have come down to Shai or Bridges much less McDonough making that choice. Thankfully it didn't.

I think he wasn't fired because we got the #1 pick and virtually everyone knew that was Ayton. If we didn't have Igor as our coach I doubt Doncic at #1 would have been discussed as much as it was. Notice how Sacramento got a pass for not taking Luka at #2? If he should have been #1 then surely he would be taken at #2 but he wasn't. That meant the only way McD would be canned is if he pushed for someone over Ayton. He didn't, at least not that hard, so they kept him to make the selection. It wasn't McD's doing so much as the lottery gods though for giving us the #1 pick.

The Bridges trade was reportedly something Sarver worked on. So McD doesn't get credit for that and the writing may have been on the wall for him then. Firing a GM after the draft would have been awful, with free agency right then. I think McD was told what he could do to save his job but ultimately he was on his way out regardless of what he did. It also allowed James Jones some experience to watch an experienced GM handle free agency and the draft.

I'll still give McD credit for Warren, even if we traded him for negative value. He wasn't a negative asset and that falls on James Jones rushing to get a deal done ASAP this offseason. Warren was on a good contract and was a fine player but he didn't fit her anymore because he didn't want a 6th man role.

 

[BC867]

It was said by a city councilman. Sarver mentioned moving the team from Phoenix to Scottsdale and the councilman spun it into he was moving the team out of the state. Here is a tweet from Gambo that backs Sarver in that he never threatened to move the team out of state. Going from Phoenix to Scottsdale or Glendale isn't an issue, sports teams often play in suburbs of big cities.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

And here is a link to the corrected article that Gambo is mentioning.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/opi...leave-phoenix-we-want-stay-valley/2305904002/

Now it is really confusing! Here is the article you posted.

You must be registered for see images attach

According to the last three paragraphs, Sarver talked about "other options out there" and that other options could be in the Valley.

So keeping the Suns in the Valley was another option? If keeping them in the Valley was another option, then moving them out of
the Valley must have been the first option.

Evidently, he used the threat of moving them out of the Valley in negotiating. And keep them within the Valley as "another option".
It is right there in the article.

That does not let Sarver off the hook. The Suns are a Valley institution. Robert Sarver is a wheeler-dealer, money is the only thing
that matters to him. He does not deserve our blind support.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think he wasn't fired because we got the #1 pick and virtually everyone knew that was Ayton. If we didn't have Igor as our coach I doubt Doncic at #1 would have been discussed as much as it was. Notice how Sacramento got a pass for not taking Luka at #2? If he should have been #1 then surely he would be taken at #2 but he wasn't. That meant the only way McD would be canned is if he pushed for someone over Ayton. He didn't, at least not that hard, so they kept him to make the selection. It wasn't McD's doing so much as the lottery gods though for giving us the #1 pick.

The Bridges trade was reportedly something Sarver worked on. So McD doesn't get credit for that and the writing may have been on the wall for him then. Firing a GM after the draft would have been awful, with free agency right then. I think McD was told what he could do to save his job but ultimately he was on his way out regardless of what he did. It also allowed James Jones some experience to watch an experienced GM handle free agency and the draft.

I'll still give McD credit for Warren, even if we traded him for negative value. He wasn't a negative asset and that falls on James Jones rushing to get a deal done ASAP this offseason. Warren was on a good contract and was a fine player but he didn't fit her anymore because he didn't want a 6th man role.

I never thought the selection of Ayton #1 had anything to do with McDonough's firing. I've always thought it was a unanimous decision within the Suns organization with the approval of Robert Sarver.

It was reported Sarver wanted Bridges (instead of trading for the Shai) so this may have been a sticking point which contributed to the firing of McDonough. I think it's more that though.

I always liked Warren but his market value plummeted. Him not returning to action last season didn't help his value.

 

[Carolinacacti]

I think McD finally cleaned up the GOAT poo and was shown the door

 

[Phrazbit]

Looking back it's hard to see why Ryan McDonough was not fired before the 2018 Draft.

Aside from Devin Booker his second best draft pick was probably Bogdan Bogdanovic who he traded before he ever put on a Suns uniform. TJ Warren was traded for negative value. I think Ayton was the consensus choice by Sarver and the Suns organization.

You mention Shai but McDonough passed over De'Aaron Fox in the 2017 Draft to select Josh Jackson.

It should never have come down to Shai or Bridges much less McDonough making that choice. Thankfully it didn't.

You're damn right it's hard to make sense of the timing... which is why I still have zero faith in Sarver as an owner. The timing and nature of McD's firing make a strong case that it had very little to do with results and everything to do with Sarver's continual habit of interfering with his management.

I fully expect Sarver to continue those awful habits whenever the opportunity presents itself.

 

[Mainstreet]

You're damn right it's hard to make sense of the timing... which is why I still have zero faith in Sarver as an owner. The timing and nature of McD's firing make a strong case that it had very little to do with results and everything to do with Sarver's continual habit of interfering with his management.

I fully expect Sarver to continue those awful habits whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Obviously I'm not going to defend Sarver because of past mistakes.

However, if McDonough had done a better job as the Sun GM maybe Sarver would have left well enough alone.

If anything he gave McDonough too much rope.

 

[Phrazbit]

Obviously I'm not going to defend Sarver because of past mistakes.

However, if McDonough had done a better job as the Sun GM maybe Sarver would have left well enough alone.

If anything he gave McDonough too much rope.

Too much rope in time? Maybe. Too much rope in freedom to make his own decisions? Absolutely not. Sarver should not interfere with his front office.

This isn't about McD, it's about Sarver. Who knows what the franchise would look like or who would be running it if Sarver had just let the people he hired do their jobs. Sarver has been doing it throughout his tenure and there is no reason to think he is going to stop.

I'm not saying that we're hopeless but it's a problem and it will continue to be a problem until he is gone.

 

[Hoop Head]

Now it is really confusing! Here is the article you posted.

You must be registered for see images attach

According to the last three paragraphs, Sarver talked about "other options out there" and that other options could be in the Valley.

So keeping the Suns in the Valley was another option? If keeping them in the Valley was another option, then moving them out of
the Valley must have been the first option.

Evidently, he used the threat of moving them out of the Valley in negotiating. And keep them within the Valley as "another option".
It is right there in the article.

That does not let Sarver off the hook. The Suns are a Valley institution. Robert Sarver is a wheeler-dealer, money is the only thing
that matters to him. He does not deserve our blind support.

When the arena deal was discussed Sarver did talk about moving the team to somewhere else in the valley, he was pretty open about that. He said his first choice was to keep the Suns in Phoenix but that he'd explore options in Scottsdale and elsewhere if a deal couldn't be made. He never threatened to move them out of the Phoenix metro area though and all of the sports media in the valley actually backed those claims, that he never threatened to leave with the Suns. Gambo was the loudest voice in backing Sarver when it came to that.

The city council member tried spinning what Sarver said and when that blew up in their face they went into damage control but it was too late, they managed to make it look like they had a personal vendetta against Sarver by making up claims about moving the team. That ended up costing the council when the deal was struck because it moved public perception back to the Suns and Sarver's side because the councilman lied about what Sarver would do if it were denied.

Saying that he didn't threaten to move the team isn't supporting Sarver, it's supporting the facts. Gambo openly says in that tweet that Sarver never threatened to move the Suns out of AZ. Why would he go out on a limb like that if it weren't true? It's also why there were a number of articles that came out at the time that had to go into damage control for the city because of what the councilman said. The councilman and a few reporters tried blaming each other but by then the damage was done and the Suns got approved for the arena deal.

 

[Hoop Head]

I never thought the selection of Ayton #1 had anything to do with McDonough's firing. I've always thought it was a unanimous decision within the Suns organization with the approval of Robert Sarver.

It was reported Sarver wanted Bridges (instead of trading for the Shai) so this may have been a sticking point which contributed to the firing of McDonough. I think it's more that though.

I always liked Warren but his market value plummeted. Him not returning to action last season didn't help his value.

I think getting the #1 pick delayed McD's firing, not that it saved him in anyway. Anyone could have made that pick and I believe that's why he wasn't fired yet, because it didn't matter who the GM was at the time because the pick was always going to be Ayton.

Why Sarver let him stick around past the draft is more questionable, IMO, because he already overruled him for the Bridges trade, why let him hold all of the cards for free agency? Unless he knew the Suns were strapped for cash and options so they kept McD in charge because nothing was going to happen with a new GM or McD, might as well let McD take the hit for an uneventful free agency period.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think getting the #1 pick delayed McD's firing, not that it saved him in anyway. Anyone could have made that pick and I believe that's why he wasn't fired yet, because it didn't matter who the GM was at the time because the pick was always going to be Ayton.

Why Sarver let him stick around past the draft is more questionable, IMO, because he already overruled him for the Bridges trade, why let him hold all of the cards for free agency? Unless he knew the Suns were strapped for cash and options so they kept McD in charge because nothing was going to happen with a new GM or McD, might as well let McD take the hit for an uneventful free agency period.

I think something eventful happened for McDonough to be fired so abruptly. Maybe we will never know for sure. If I were going to guess it involved a trade for a point guard that never happened during or after the draft. Maybe this is why Sarver reportedly made the trade for Bridges. Even McDonough knew the Suns couldn't go two seasons without a starting point guard.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think something eventful happened for McDonough to be fired so abruptly. Maybe we will never know for sure. If I were going to guess it involved a trade for a point guard that never happened during or after the draft. Maybe this is why Sarver reportedly made the trade for Bridges. Even McDonough knew the Suns couldn't go two seasons without a starting point guard.

I think the Ryan Anderson/Brandon Knight trade sealed his fate, if it wasn't already done. That was another case of McD doing a player wrong. Knight came and worked out with the Summer League team to help rehab, get to know Igor, and show that he could be the PG of the future. He was never a problem player in his time here, as far as off court conduct. McD trading him like he did, with Chriss, essentially said that he never should have signed him to an extension initially and also that the 2017 draft was a bust. Remember that James Jones was brought in because McD bungled so many personnel moves and you can easily make the case he did that with Knight in his final months here.


Sarver could have put the kibosh on that trade but then he only backs up all reports of him being a meddling owner, plus the damage would have been done. McD proved he had no plan in terms of entering the season with a PG, and he had done nothing that offseason that warranted being kept around. It was clear during preseason how badly the team needed a PG and even though Knight ended up having surgery, who knows when he needed that surgery and if staying here might have kept that from happening.

I think you're right in that we won't know but it is fun to guess. There is definitely no shortage of bad moves and moves that didn't get made that warranted him getting canned. I don't think there is a time during the offseason when he could have been canned when it would have looked good so what happened did and I think that was probably the right time to make the move, ultimately. Before the draft would have been really bad, leaving a bunch of assistants in charge of the draft, and the team's first #1 overall pick. Doing it after the draft but before free agency would have sent the wrong message to all potential free agents out there. So they did it between preseason and the regular season starting. It wasn't ideal but it was better than some alternatives.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the Ryan Anderson/Brandon Knight trade sealed his fate, if it wasn't already done. That was another case of McD doing a player wrong. Knight came and worked out with the Summer League team to help rehab, get to know Igor, and show that he could be the PG of the future. He was never a problem player in his time here, as far as off court conduct. McD trading him like he did, with Chriss, essentially said that he never should have signed him to an extension initially and also that the 2017 draft was a bust. Remember that James Jones was brought in because McD bungled so many personnel moves and you can easily make the case he did that with Knight in his final months here.


Sarver could have put the kibosh on that trade but then he only backs up all reports of him being a meddling owner, plus the damage would have been done. McD proved he had no plan in terms of entering the season with a PG, and he had done nothing that offseason that warranted being kept around. It was clear during preseason how badly the team needed a PG and even though Knight ended up having surgery, who knows when he needed that surgery and if staying here might have kept that from happening.

I think you're right in that we won't know but it is fun to guess. There is definitely no shortage of bad moves and moves that didn't get made that warranted him getting canned. I don't think there is a time during the offseason when he could have been canned when it would have looked good so what happened did and I think that was probably the right time to make the move, ultimately. Before the draft would have been really bad, leaving a bunch of assistants in charge of the draft, and the team's first #1 overall pick. Doing it after the draft but before free agency would have sent the wrong message to all potential free agents out there. So they did it between preseason and the regular season starting. It wasn't ideal but it was better than some alternatives.

We agree there is no shortage of bad moves that contributed to McDonough being fired. Trading Chriss and Knight for Anderson and Melton was mostly a case of swapping bad contracts with each team hoping for some upside. Entering the 2018 season without a starting point guard was the one most untenable in my book.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You're damn right it's hard to make sense of the timing... which is why I still have zero faith in Sarver as an owner. The timing and nature of McD's firing make a strong case that it had very little to do with results and everything to do with Sarver's continual habit of interfering with his management.

I fully expect Sarver to continue those awful habits whenever the opportunity presents itself.

It is not hard to understand why. Sarver was not planning on firing him at all in that off-season. I have no doubt he was planning on giving McD Ayton’s rookie year to turn it around. But once McD entered the season without managing to get a pg, he pulled the trigger early.

 

[Mainstreet]

It is not hard to understand why. Sarver was not planning on firing him at all in that off-season. I have no doubt he was planning on giving McD Ayton’s rookie year to turn it around. But once McD entered the season without managing to get a pg, he pulled the trigger early.

Apparently McDonough had a plan to add a point guard as Phazbit pointed out.

Per at least one report McDonough had a plan to trade the 16th pick and the Bucks pick to draft Shai while Sarver preferred to trade for Bridges using the 16th pick and the unprotected Miama pick.

A difference of strategy may have contributed to McDonough's firing.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/12/1...raft-night-trade-for-shai-gilgeous-alexander/

 

[JCSunsfan]

Apparently McDonough had a plan to add a point guard as Phazbit pointed out.

Per at least one report McDonough had a plan to trade the 16th pick and the Bucks pick to draft Shai while Sarver preferred to trade for Bridges using the 16th pick and the unprotected Miama pick.

A difference of strategy may have contributed to McDonough's firing.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/12/1...raft-night-trade-for-shai-gilgeous-alexander/

I believe Sarver wanted a vet pg. not trying to defend him.

 

[Mainstreet]

I believe Sarver wanted a vet pg. not trying to defend him.

I guess more evidence Sarver is running the team.

Ironically if McDonough had pulled off the trade for Shai he might still be here even in spite of the poor draft moves in 2016-17.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I believe Sarver wanted a vet pg. not trying to defend him.

I have no idea what Sarver wanted but didn't we also hear that the Clippers turned down our offer? I like Bridges and I am not as enamored of SGA as most here are but still, if that deal was out there for just the 16 and the Milwaukee pick, it would have been absurd to not take it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I have no idea what Sarver wanted but didn't we also hear that the Clippers turned down our offer? I like Bridges and I am not as enamored of SGA as most here are but still, if that deal was out there for just the 16 and the Milwaukee pick, it would have been absurd to not take it.

The trade for Shai does sound too good to be true.

Leaving Bridges out of the equation a lot of posters would have been happy with the trade as presented above. It's hard to see the Clippers doing it.