NBA Finals' Biggest Loser: Phoenix Suns Owner Robert Sarver

[AzStevenCal]

I think JC no longer cares for Arizona because of what happened with the Dbacks.

I suspect he's more likely to be ambivalent about Arizona than indifferent.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sarver had the final say on the financial decisions. I agree Colangelo was the key reason we got Nash, even said so in the post you're responding to. But no matter how it's spun, that was during Sarver's tenure. Every owner has someone functioning as a GM, Jerry was ours at the start of the Sarver era and taking away all credit from Sarver for that era makes zero sense.

Yes he did but he was following Jerry's lead while he learned the ropes. My only point is he may have signed the checks but that was not a Sarver team.

I said way back when you would know what kind of owner he was when Jerry, those players were gone, he was hiring FO and HC. Not to mention continue to make this a the free agent destination that Jerry built.

The results? Absolutely horrible track record. The team has taken a serious reputation hit. You simply can't defend Sarver's track record since that time. Although like I said above the last couple drafts give me hope. I would like to think the Suns are finally on the right path.

 

[Chaplin]

That's how I remember it too.

I still think we'd have at least one championship had Colangelo stayed on board. We would have resigned JJ. We would have drafted Igoudala. We wouldn't have made the KT blunder trade. I'm also pretty sure Colangelo regrets selling the team.

All 3 of those things are independent of each other. If we would have resigned JJ, would we have been in a position to draft Igoudala? Would we be in a position to trade KT, or even, acquire KT in the first place?

You can't make blanket statements about the past because it doesn't work that way.

 

[Chaplin]

Yes he did but he was following Jerry's lead while he learned the ropes. My only point is he may have signed the checks but that was not a Sarver team.

I said way back when you would know what kind of owner he was when Jerry, those players were gone, he was hiring FO and HC. Not to mention continue to make this a the free agent destination that Jerry built.

The results? Absolutely horrible track record. The team has taken a serious reputation hit. You simply can't defend Sarver's track record since that time. Although like I said above the last couple drafts give me hope. I would like to think the Suns are finally on the right path.

Pretty sure he's not defending Sarver's track record. All we are saying that the reasoning behind making Sarver the antichrist is unsound at best.

 

[Chaplin]

Once you've established yourself as incompetent its very hard to change public opinion. If some other owner had said the whole millennial thing it probably wouldn't have been that big a deal.

Even if the Suns win 50 games next year Sarver probably won't get any credit.

Yep. They'd win 50 DESPITE Sarver, not because of him and his decisions. He can't win with the Suns fanbase, at least, the "more than casual" fanbase we have here on the board.

 

[Covert Rain]

Pretty sure he's not defending Sarver's track record. All we are saying that the reasoning behind making Sarver the antichrist is unsound at best.

I know he wasn't. I was just responding in general but saying Sarver has been a bad owner based on what he has done on his own isn't unsound at all.

I give credit to Sarver for trying to undo the damage, bring in a real GM and trying to turn it around.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yes he did but he was following Jerry's lead while he learned the ropes. My only point is he may have signed the checks but that was not a Sarver team.

I said way back when you would know what kind of owner he was when Jerry, those players were gone, he was hiring FO and HC. Not to mention continue to make this a the free agent destination that Jerry built.

The results? Absolutely horrible track record. The team has taken a serious reputation hit. You simply can't defend Sarver's track record since that time. Although like I said above the last couple drafts give me hope. I would like to think the Suns are finally on the right path.

Yes but that wasn't the conversation. I know your opinion on the subject and I have no desire to try and change your mind or that other guy's mind. I was just pointing out a factual error. No matter how you want to view it, the Suns were not a championship contending team prior to Sarver's purchase as frdbtr stated. You can argue that he was gifted a championship contender but that's a different story.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes but that wasn't the conversation. I know your opinion on the subject and I have no desire to try and change your mind or that other guy's mind. I was just pointing out a factual error. No matter how you want to view it, the Suns were not a championship contending team prior to Sarver's purchase as frdbtr stated. You can argue that he was gifted a championship contender but that's a different story.

Sure if you want to get technical but Sarver had very little to do with it. If he wasn't the senior partner in the investment group you could <insert name> here.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sure if you want to get technical but Sarver had very little to do with it. If he wasn't the senior partner in the investment group you could <insert name> here.

You call that getting "technical"?

 

[Covert Rain]

You call that getting "technical"?

I do because it wasn't Sarver's basketball knowledge or decision making that led to that team. He just stayed out of the way for the show that was already in progress. Why would he get any more credit than that?!? If Jerry had never sold the team he was still going after Nash anyway.

 

[chickenhead]

I'm on the record here as no fan of Sarver, but I do hope that can turn it around. If the Cardinals can do it... I realize that change has a lot to do with Michael taking over, but I also think that they were determined to consolidate their success once they had some. It would be great if this young core can develop, make the playoffs, sell a lot of tickets - and lead Sarver to reinvest and delegate. (I'll skip talking about a new arena for now...)

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm on the record here as no fan of Sarver, but I do hope that can turn it around. If the Cardinals can do it... I realize that change has a lot to do with Michael taking over, but I also think that they were determined to consolidate their success once they had some. It would be great if this young core can develop, make the playoffs, sell a lot of tickets - and lead Sarver to reinvest and delegate. (I'll skip talking about a new arena for now...)

The problem here is change is what brought the first wave of success for the Cards. Without Michael Bidwill taking over and changing the culture they never get that first taste of success that emboldened them to get more.

I hope this draft really spurs us forward, but I've seen very little from Sarver or McD to lead me to believe sustained success happens by much more then luck.

 

[frdbtr]

If Amare and Boris Diaw don't stand up out of their chairs when Cheap shot Bob hip checked Nash into the scorers table, against the Spurs, Phoenix wins the championship that year. If that isn't a championship contending team I don't know what is. Those were players drafted and/or signed by Jerry Colangelo. Phoenix has steadily declined for contention ever since. They have had some decent teams but they have been going downhill since. The only consistent has been sarver. I have blamed coaches, I have blamed Steve Kerr, and a few other puzzle pieces but the bottom line is Sarver is the common denominator for Phoenix's decline. I am not a casual fan, I used to be able to tell you every suns win/loss of every season back in the 90's. I got so depressed watching Phoenix blow leads against Houston in the playoffs (remember Charles Barkley laughing off a free throw miss with a 3-1 lead only to see Houston win that game and the series?). I have only become a casual fan because I can't bear to watch the crappy product that Sarver has put on the court. Nothing is going to change as long as he is owner.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If Amare and Boris Diaw don't stand up out of their chairs when Cheap shot Bob hip checked Nash into the scorers table, against the Spurs, Phoenix wins the championship that year. If that isn't a championship contending team I don't know what is. Those were players drafted and/or signed by Jerry Colangelo. Phoenix has steadily declined for contention ever since. They have had some decent teams but they have been going downhill since. The only consistent has been sarver. I have blamed coaches, I have blamed Steve Kerr, and a few other puzzle pieces but the bottom line is Sarver is the common denominator for Phoenix's decline. I am not a casual fan, I used to be able to tell you every suns win/loss of every season back in the 90's. I got so depressed watching Phoenix blow leads against Houston in the playoffs (remember Charles Barkley laughing off a free throw miss with a 3-1 lead only to see Houston win that game and the series?). I have only become a casual fan because I can't bear to watch the crappy product that Sarver has put on the court. Nothing is going to change as long as he is owner.

Your conclusion might be correct but your facts aren't. Boris Diaw wasn't drafted or signed by JC, he came over in the sign and trade deal that sent Joe Johnson to Atlanta. JC was the owner when we drafted Amare but Sarver was the owner when we signed Nash. You want to give full credit for that team to Colangelo, fine, but it's incorrect to say Sarver wasn't the owner when that team was put together.

The Suns went 29-53 the season before Sarver bought them and they won 62 games his first season as owner. I'm not suggesting that's all on him, or even close to it, but we clearly weren't a championship contending team when Sarver bought the Suns.

 

[Covert Rain]

If Amare and Boris Diaw don't stand up out of their chairs when Cheap shot Bob hip checked Nash into the scorers table, against the Spurs, Phoenix wins the championship that year. If that isn't a championship contending team I don't know what is. Those were players drafted and/or signed by Jerry Colangelo. Phoenix has steadily declined for contention ever since. They have had some decent teams but they have been going downhill since. The only consistent has been sarver. I have blamed coaches, I have blamed Steve Kerr, and a few other puzzle pieces but the bottom line is Sarver is the common denominator for Phoenix's decline. I am not a casual fan, I used to be able to tell you every suns win/loss of every season back in the 90's. I got so depressed watching Phoenix blow leads against Houston in the playoffs (remember Charles Barkley laughing off a free throw miss with a 3-1 lead only to see Houston win that game and the series?). I have only become a casual fan because I can't bear to watch the crappy product that Sarver has put on the court. Nothing is going to change as long as he is owner.

Spot on. JC should get credit for fielding the team that Sarver got to work with during the contending years and JC definitely laid the groundwork for the teams core that competed all those years. He used his experience and relationships with other teams to pull of moves and trades not only leading up to Sarver's ownership of the team but right after as well. It's possible we may have won a title but we will never know.

Once that core group of guys and the FO was turned over that was all Sarver. There was a slow and steady deterioration of the FO and the play of this team. Sarver has been the only constant. No franchise FA signings and until the last two seasons very unimpressive drafts. All under Sarver. I have zero doubt had Jerry stayed we would have landed some major player either via FA or through trades. Jerry was far from perfect but he had a good reputation and so did the Suns.

I am going to disagree with one thing in that I think things have changed the past two seasons. I am going to give Sarver credit for what seems to be him realizing what lousy decisions he has made and bringing in some basketball guys in the FO. It remains to be seen if that can overcome the "Sarverness" of this team. There have been multiple articles sighting that lack of respect around the league for Sarver by both other owners and players. It will take time and I hope it does. I am optimistic for the first time under Sarver. A couple good drafts, some wins...maybe time is all he needs. I guess we will know in a few years if he truly has turned this team around.

 

[frdbtr]

Your conclusion might be correct but your facts aren't. Boris Diaw wasn't drafted or signed by JC, he came over in the sign and trade deal that sent Joe Johnson to Atlanta. JC was the owner when we drafted Amare but Sarver was the owner when we signed Nash. You want to give full credit for that team to Colangelo, fine, but it's incorrect to say Sarver wasn't the owner when that team was put together.

The Suns went 29-53 the season before Sarver bought them and they won 62 games his first season as owner. I'm not suggesting that's all on him, or even close to it, but we clearly weren't a championship contending team when Sarver bought the Suns.

That 62 win team was all on Jerry Colangelo. The decline slowly started then. IMO the JJ sign and trade was the beginning of the end. It took a while but Sarver's reputation of the bottom line being more important than winning started with that debacle. I seriously hope that the Suns turn this thing around, even with Sarver as the owner but I have no faith in it. Draft picks rarely win championships. Getting free agent signings or making shrewd trades that bring in the final piece win championships. The next major free agent signing that Sarver makes will be his first.

Edit: when I said "those were the players" I was referring to the collective team, not Amare and Diaw individually even though Amare was a JC draft choice.

 

[Shaggy]

BIM, how come every new thread of yours has massive text?

 

[slinslin]

That 62 win team was all on Jerry Colangelo. .

lol

I seriously hope that the Suns turn this thing around, even with Sarver as the owner but I have no faith in it. Draft picks rarely win championships.

lol

Dirk Nowitzki - drafted by the Mavs
Kobe Bryant - essentially drafted by the Lakers
Dwayne Wade - drafted by the Heat
Lebron James - drafted by the Cavs
Steph Curry, Draymond Green, Harrison Barnes, Klay Thompson - drafted by the Warriors
Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker - drafted by the Spurs
Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen - drafted by the Bulls
Hakeem Olajuwon - drafted by the Rockets
Magic Johnson, James Worthy - drafted by the Lakers
Isaiah Thomas, Joe Dumas - drafted by the Pistons

Do you need me to go on? Draft picks basically always win the championship. The only team that you could maybe argue would be the Pistons recently but even they drafted Tayshaun Prince a key player.

The next major free agent signing that Sarver makes will be his first.

eh no

 

[frdbtr]

lol



lol

Dirk Nowitzki - drafted by the Mavs
Kobe Bryant - essentially drafted by the Lakers
Dwayne Wade - drafted by the Heat
Lebron James - drafted by the Cavs
Steph Curry, Draymond Green, Harrison Barnes, Klay Thompson - drafted by the Warriors
Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker - drafted by the Spurs
Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen - drafted by the Bulls
Hakeem Olajuwon - drafted by the Rockets
Magic Johnson, James Worthy - drafted by the Lakers
Isaiah Thomas, Joe Dumas - drafted by the Pistons

Do you need me to go on? Draft picks basically always win the championship. The only team that you could maybe argue would be the Pistons recently but even they drafted Tayshaun Prince a key player.


eh no

With a couple of exceptions all of those players were drafted into already good teams. Second of all, which players have we drafted in the last couple of years are franchise players like Magic or Jordan?

3rd of all, what trades or FA signings has Sarver done that have been for High level players?

 

[slinslin]

With a couple of exceptions all of those players were drafted into already good teams. Second of all, which players have we drafted in the last couple of years are franchise players like Magic or Jordan?

WTF man,

Mavs record prior to Nowitzki 20-62
Heat record prior to Wade 25-57
Cavs record prior to Lebron 17-65
Warriors record prior to Steph 29-53
Spurs record prior to Duncan 20-62
Rockets record prior to Hakeem 29-53
Pistons record prior to Isiah Thomas 21-61
Bulls record prior to Michael Jordan 27-55


Lakers were 47-35 before Magic but still had the #1 pick.

Maybe you try to argue with facts for once.

And concerning free agents that Sarver signed -> Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Goran Dragic, Eric Gordon and many more.

Maybe you should compare it to other NBA teams. What great free agents have the Lakers signed in the last 20 years? Nobody worth noting since Shaq.

 

[frdbtr]

WTF man,

Mavs record prior to Nowitzki 20-62
Heat record prior to Wade 25-57
Cavs record prior to Lebron 17-65
Warriors record prior to Steph 29-53
Spurs record prior to Duncan 20-62
Rockets record prior to Hakeem 29-53
Pistons record prior to Isiah Thomas 21-61
Bulls record prior to Michael Jordan 27-55


Lakers were 47-35 before Magic but still had the #1 pick.

Maybe you try to argue with facts for once.

And concerning free agents that Sarver signed -> Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Goran Dragic, Eric Gordon and many more.

Maybe you should compare it to other NBA teams. What great free agents have the Lakers signed in the last 20 years? Nobody worth noting since Shaq.

Mavs also traded for Nash right about the time they got Nowitski who was a late 1st round pick, the Cav's didn't win a championship with Lebron until he came back....after they had stockpiled some #1 picks while he was with the heat. The Spurs were a great team when they drafted Duncan, they withheld Robinson for a year even though he could have come back from that injury to gamble on the Lottery and won, and got Duncan. The Heat didn't win a championship with Wade until they signed Lebron and 1 other free agent I am forgetting.

You didn't answer the question I asked about which of the Suns Draft picks over the last couple of years that are on the level of any of those picks you named that brought those teams championships. Nash was not a Sarver signing, he was a Colangelo signing who was still running the team that year. Grant Hill...past his prime (still a good player though). None of those other signings are even all stars so how could they be high level signings?

 

[Hoop Head]

Mavs also traded for Nash right about the time they got Nowitski who was a late 1st round pick, the Cav's didn't win a championship with Lebron until he came back....after they had stockpiled some #1 picks while he was with the heat. The Spurs were a great team when they drafted Duncan, they withheld Robinson for a year even though he could have come back from that injury to gamble on the Lottery and won, and got Duncan. The Heat didn't win a championship with Wade until they signed Lebron and 1 other free agent I am forgetting.

The Heat won the title in 2006 with Wade, which was 4 years before Lebron had "The Decision". They gutted their team to get Shaq that season and outside of him and Wade they had very little talent. Wade was the difference maker in the playoffs that season and stepped up in a big way. His play that season, but mostly that playoffs, elevated him from an All Star into a Superstar.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Your conclusion might be correct but your facts aren't. Boris Diaw wasn't drafted or signed by JC, he came over in the sign and trade deal that sent Joe Johnson to Atlanta.

A trade made by Bryan Colangelo.

JC was the owner when we drafted Amare but Sarver was the owner when we signed Nash. You want to give full credit for that team to Colangelo, fine, but it's incorrect to say Sarver wasn't the owner when that team was put together.

True... and if Sarver had his way, we wouldn't have signed Nash. JC had to talk him into it.

The Suns went 29-53 the season before Sarver bought them and they won 62 games his first season as owner. I'm not suggesting that's all on him, or even close to it, but we clearly weren't a championship contending team when Sarver bought the Suns.

I really don't understand people trying to give Sarver much credit here. He signed checks, but it's pretty clear that team was built by Jerry and his Son and once they and the players they put together were both removed from the equation, the team has steadily declined from one of the crown jewels of the league to laughingstock in six years.

 

[Covert Rain]

I really don't understand people trying to give Sarver much credit here. He signed checks, but it's pretty clear that team was built by Jerry and his Son and once they and the players they put together were both removed from the equation, the team has steadily declined from one of the crown jewels of the league to laughingstock in six years.

Thank you. Sarver should be judged for what he has done on HIS OWN. Not for what JC or BC teed up for him. Sarver as you said signed checks but it wasn't his negotiations, basketball knowledge or relationships with teams that fielded that team.

This team used to be a FA destination. This team used to have one of the best reputations in the entire league. Sarver's horrible tenure has been indefensible. Again, I give him credit the last two. Let's see where it goes. I have been one of Sarver's harshest critics and even I am optimistic for the first time since Sarver was running the entire thing.

 

[Chaplin]

A trade made by Bryan Colangelo.

So wait a minute, Bryan Colangelo, who worked for Sarver for awhile AFTER Jerry left gets all the credit for any good moves in the first couple years, but not Sarver? How does that make sense? You honestly believe Bryan was working on his own and doing these moves DESPITE Sarver? That's ludicrous!

Thank you. Sarver should be judged for what he has done on HIS OWN. Not for what JC or BC teed up for him. Sarver as you said signed checks but it wasn't his negotiations, basketball knowledge or relationships with teams that fielded that team.

But he's never, except for maybe those couple months before hiring Babby and Kerr, been on his own. He's always had a GM, whether it was BC or D'Antoni, Kerr or McD. If BC was the impetus of Sarver's success (and you are unwilling to give Sarver credit), then shouldn't you put all the bad things on whoever the GM was during all the bad moves during Sarver's tenure? You can't have it both ways.