NBA may crack down on floppers

[Lorenzo]

Manu is clearly the superior offensive player, but I dispute whether he's the better defender. Raja is effectrive without a Tim Duncant shot blocker backing him up - a huge difference.

In any case, the question is whether Manu is major flopper: ie flops with little or no contact. Is there any real doubt that the answer is "yes"?

I've seen bell flop with little or no contact as well. I used to watch it on a nightly basis.

 

[azirish]

I've seen bell flop with little or no contact as well. I used to watch it on a nightly basis.

Nightly?

I don't watch as many Suns games as I'd like (I'm in the music biz and am out too much), but I have not seen Bell do a no contact flop yet. He goes down easily when there is real contact, but I've never seen a "blow on him and he falls" flop like Manu does on a regular basis.

If you polled fans through out the NBA, I expect Manu would be voted the number one flopper by a huge margin.

 

[Lorenzo]

Nightly?

I don't watch as many Suns games as I'd like (I'm in the music biz and am out too much), but I have not seen Bell do a no contact flop yet. He goes down easily when there is real contact, but I've never seen a "blow on him and he falls" flop like Manu does on a regular basis.

If you polled fans through out the NBA, I expect Manu would be voted the number one flopper by a huge margin.

well I don't watch every suns game, but i remember i did when he was in dallas. I never thought he was a great defender then. I thought he was a guy who was just there to take one for the team. He is clearly a better player now that phoenix lets him be part of the offensive attack. Ginobli has his antics and acting jobs that may piss fans off. But in my book a flopper is a flopper. Devin harris does it as well....so look to be mad at him come wednesday night. He has to be even more frustrating. he earns calls because he is so fast and puts himself in great position to absorb rough contact. Often times the offensive player is only guilty of being unlucky.

 

[Chaplin]

Flopping is bad no matter which way you spin it, but when a player intentionally flops with absolutely no regard for any other players around him, that is not only amateur, but dangerous. Manu fits that bill, Raja does not.

 

[Lorenzo]

Flopping is bad no matter which way you spin it, but when a player intentionally flops with absolutely no regard for any other players around him, that is not only amateur, but dangerous. Manu fits that bill, Raja does not.

Okay....i know we've had this arguement before so i understand where you are coming from.

 

[mribnik]

Manu takes absolutely no contact and makes it look like he was just hit by a bus. Raja takes a very little amount of contact and makes it look like a lot of contact. Manu is also very reckless in the way he does it (Barbosa injury from last year) whereas Raja is much more controlled.

 

[ma_falaa_50]

Manu takes absolutely no contact and makes it look like he was just hit by a bus. Raja takes a very little amount of contact and makes it look like a lot of contact. Manu is also very reckless in the way he does it (Barbosa injury from last year) whereas Raja is much more controlled.

I think flopping is bad defense but High basketball IQ. I think its a good thing that the nba puts a penalty for floppingmaybe it will help players play better defense. I think foriegn players flop a lot.

I didnt like it when malone did it, i dnt like it when manu does it. flopping is not basketball it wwe wrestling.

 

[mathbzh]

I think flopping is bad defense but High basketball IQ. I think its a good thing that the nba puts a penalty for floppingmaybe it will help players play better defense. I think foriegn players flop a lot.

I didnt like it when malone did it, i dnt like it when manu does it. flopping is not basketball it wwe wrestling.

Do you like it when Raja or Amare does it (controlled or not)?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Do you like it when Raja or Amare does it (controlled or not)?

You mean Raja and Nash? How often do you see Amare flop? Amare doesn't fall to the ground, unless he is hacked or diving for a loose ball.

 

[mathbzh]

You mean Raja and Nash? How often do you see Amare flop? Amare doesn't fall to the ground, unless he is hacked or diving for a loose ball.

Actually I remind a quiet stupid Amare vs. T.Parker (2005 playoff).
But I agree Amare is not a flopper. Just to say we are very hard on Ginobili (it is justified) but are not angels.

 

[phxrising]

Flopping keeps cropping up
The NBA art of simulating an offensive foul may be hated, but it's unlikely to go away
Doug Haller
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 18, 2007 12:00 AM
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns...aflop0318.html

The NBA is a scorer's league. Everything favors the offense: the rules, the officiating, the shot clock. It's a jump shooter's game. A penetrator's paradise.

He flops. And, oh, how the masses cry foul.

Backed into a corner, or maybe the lane, today's defender does the only thing he can to make up the difference.

"It's definitely frustrating because guys don't play defense no more," Suns center Amaré Stoudemire said. "They call it smart basketball."

Flopping - the art of feigning an offensive foul - is nothing new, it just seems that way. Guys are falling backward - "like they were shot with a gun," Suns reserve Marcus Banks said - at what seems like a record pace.

Earlier this year, Stu Jackson, the NBA's executive vice president for basketball operations, said the league might consider penalizing floppers. It's not an unprecedented notion. FIBA, the governing body of international basketball, implemented a rule in 2004 that lets referees whistle technical fouls for flopping.

"But I don't think it's ever been called," said Craig Miller, spokesman for USA Basketball.

Regulating flopping in the NBA, where nearly everything moves with blinding speed, would be almost impossible, most say. Just determining the difference between a charge and block is hard enough.

"Sometimes it's just insinuating a foul," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. "A guy hits you and you overreact, but he did foul you. So is that a flop?"

Only the defenders know for sure and they rarely fess up, but that doesn't stop reputations from being formed.

The Chicago Bulls actually include an opponent's floppers in their scouting reports, right alongside the team's best three-point shooters.

"There are guys who take pride in their flopping," said Bulls forward P.J. Brown, a 14-year veteran.

Asked to name the best, Brown thought a few seconds.

"Dennis Rodman was one of the great floppers," he said. "The way he played defense against Shaq and Karl Malone, he had to flop because he was only 6 foot 8, 210 pounds. He had to do whatever he could to get an edge. And Vlade (Divac) was very good. He was probably No. 1 of all time."

And today?

"The Collins twins, Jarron and Jason, I think they might go home in the off-season and work on their flopping."

Suns veteran Jalen Rose added a few more names. Manu Ginobili of the San Antonio Spurs. Derek Fisher of the Utah Jazz.

Anyone else?

"Half our team flops," Rose said. "I'm not going to name nobody. We might need one of those calls some day, so I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus."

No need. Raja Bell is aware of his reputation. He keeps a journal for ESPN.com and often answers questions from readers. Among the first came from a basketball player named Calvin in Los Angeles, who wanted to know the secret to Bell's "flopping success."

"Yep. I've been called a flopper," Bell responded. "But I consider a flop to be when you create something out of thin air - when there's no contact and you lay down anyway."

The Suns guard elaborated after a recent practice.

"Here's the deal, man," he said. "If you got someone barreling into your chest, and you try to stand up and be a tough guy with him, very rarely is an offensive foul called. The only time you ever get a foul called is if you go down, so why would I stand there and try to man-up with somebody when I'm not going to get anything but a defensive foul?"

According to 82games.com, a Web site of NBA statistics, Bell led the league in charges taken last year with 76. This year, he ranks among the leaders along with teammate Steve Nash. Both guards aren't afraid to risk their bodies. Nor are they afraid to fall after contact.

"The guys who have to flop, that's the way the players have adjusted to the rule changes," Nash said. "It's not the game in the pure sense, but whatever rules they make, guys adjust and find an equilibrium."

The NBA has tried to eliminate hand-checking, but some think the initiative has gone to extremes. Astonished by the number of fouls whistled in a recent first half, Boston coach Doc Rivers asked an official if the league had implemented a new point of emphasis in which he wasn't aware.

"And I wasn't being sarcastic," Rivers said. "I have a son in college and their guard play is far more physical (than what goes on in the NBA)."

"This game is built around the offensive player," Suns forward James Jones said. "Guys are going to the basket, they get to jump into defensive players and a foul is called. If you're a defender, flopping is one of the only real ways you can get back and put doubt in an offensive player's mind."

Jones doesn't consider it cheating, but the league isn't sure. To help prevent flopping, the NBA added a 4-foot arc around the basket. To draw a charge, a defensive player has to be standing outside the arc when contact is made.

At least one former player, however, insists players can police themselves.

"You know how you stopped all the flopping back in the day? You stepped on them or you fell on top of them," former Celtics forward Cedric Maxwell said. "That's what they need to do today. That would make guys think twice about it."

And still there are others who think the league is looking the wrong direction.

"To be honest, I think the flopping problem is on offense," Nash said. "Guys dribble into a guy and they barely touch and they flail their arms around, trying to get a call. More than anything, that's the flopping that needs to go."

 

[phxrising]

I don't know, I have no problem with taking a player taking a charge and falling down as there is usually a lot of contact on those plays and it forces a call. Some times for the defense sometimes for the offence. It forces a call to be made either way.

Its when a player make slight contact or none at all with the player handling the ball; maybe they got all ball and the player with the ball flails like a bus hit them tries to get the call. This to me is more annoying and is what they should look at.

 

[TheHopToad]

Its when a player make slight contact or none at all with the player handling the ball; maybe they got all ball and the player with the ball flails like a bus hit them tries to get the call. This to me is more annoying and is what they should look at.

All they have to do is just not call anything. Soon they'll get the message that they're not helping their team by sitting on the floor all the time.

 

[phxrising]

All they have to do is just not call anything. Soon they'll get the message that they're not helping their team by sitting on the floor all the time.

I agree, that would be the easiest way to fix it.

 

[ma_falaa_50]

honestly- I think banning flooping is a good idea. I think Nba refs get a memo of which players are notorious when it somes to flopping. I dnt see why the nba didnt focus on this sooner. Flooping is by no means good defense. I think this flopping rule would only affect some player much like the technical foul rule.

I hated vlade divac- Im not a laker fan but he flops like a motha. Manu does it a lot too.

the thing is the spurs are a very good defensive tema manu doesnt need to flop evrytime he gets bumped.

Manu getting hit in the face was kinda funny. I think basketball players need to toughen up.

 

[Lorenzo]

honestly- I think banning flooping is a good idea. I think Nba refs get a memo of which players are notorious when it somes to flopping. I dnt see why the nba didnt focus on this sooner. Flooping is by no means good defense. I think this flopping rule would only affect some player much like the technical foul rule.

I hated vlade divac- Im not a laker fan but he flops like a motha. Manu does it a lot too.

the thing is the spurs are a very good defensive tema manu doesnt need to flop evrytime he gets bumped.

Manu getting hit in the face was kinda funny. I think basketball players need to toughen up.

exactly. I've always thought that taking shots like that were part of the game. I don't like the spurs, but i have respect for all of their players and coaches.