NBA MVP and the Race Issue

devilalum

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Am I the only one that sees a race issue here?

Were there white people that voted for Steve Nash last year because he was white? Of course!

Are there black people talking him down now because he's white? Of course.

Listening to Barkley tell how KG is a much better MVP candidate than Nash was weak. His rationale made no sense at all. Stephen Smith was on the other day telling how it would be a farce if Nash won over Kobe.

Of course these guys are entitled to their opinions but I believe they are racially motivated. Barkley said that Nash is not legit because the Suns style of play won't win in the playoffs?!?! Steven Smith was focused on how many points Kobe can score and the 81 point game.

Are these commentaries intended to counterbalance all the positive articles that are being written about Nash being a lock for a repeat by the predominately white press?

I don't know. I'm biased because I'm a Suns fan. I think Nash should repeat.
 

Gorilla

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devilalum said:
Listening to Barkley tell how KG is a much better MVP candidate than Nash was weak. His rationale made no sense at all. Stephen Smith was on the other day telling how it would be a farce if Nash won over Kobe.

Of course these guys are entitled to their opinions but I believe they are racially motivated. Barkley said that Nash is not legit because the Suns style of play won't win in the playoffs?!?! Steven Smith was focused on how many points Kobe can score and the 81 point game.

Contradicting to this comments from Barkley himself....

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/spor ... amp;k=7152

Nash merits 2nd MVP: Barkley
Clippers star Brand also endorses him, 'even over me'

Bruce Arthur, National Post
Published: Saturday, February 18, 2006

HOUSTON - Everywhere you look, there's an icon. Kobe Bryant. Kevin Garnett. Shaquille O'Neal. In a way, being at the NBA All-Star Game is not unlike being trapped in one hell of a shoe commercial. Or all the shoe commercials, rolled into one.

And softly stepping among the giants is some Canadian named Steve Nash. And even with all the stars in the room -- the brightest lights of basketball -- almost anyone you ask will tell you that Nash is the MVP. Again.

"If he won the MVP last year, he's doing better this year," says Charles Barkley, an icon himself. "Steve Nash is playing fantastic. The level of basketball overall in the league is brutal. So if you've got a guy who's going to make everyone around him better ... "

The Round Mound of Wall-to-Wall Sound is an outspoken man, but on some issues, he gets it right. But maybe we are viewing Nash through overly Canadian eyes. Who else belongs in the MVP conversation?

"Nobody," says Barkley, emphatically. "Nobody."

There were critics who thought Nash's MVP victory last year was in part due to novelty voting -- to the allure of a small, white man winning the award for the first time since Bob Cousy in 1957. So the win by the kid from Victoria was, in some circles, written off as a fluke.

As Nash's opponents might plead while they backpedal: not so fast. Forward Amare Stoudemire -- the Karl Malone to Nash's John Stockton -- has missed the entire season after knee surgery. Phoenix's two designated shooters, Joe Johnson and Quentin Richardson, were traded. Nash came to camp with eight new players, and three new starters. A .500 record was predicted by most.

All Nash has done, of course, is propel the Suns back to the fourth-best record in the league. In Stoudemire's absence, Nash is averaging a career-high 19.4 points per game, along with a career-best 4.5 rebounds, and is again leading the league at 11.0 assists per game while directing Phoenix's running-down-the-mountainside offence. His shooting, which fell early as he adjusted to taking more shots, is steadily climbing towards the magical Larry Bird trifecta: .500 from the field, .400 from three-point range, and .900 from the free-throw line (he's short .005 in the field-goal category right now, and closing). Sure, the 31-year-old Nash leads the league in turnovers, but those are dropping, too, as he learns more about his teammates, and as they learn about him.

"He gets my vote for MVP," says Phoenix guard Raja Bell, acquired over the summer from Utah. "He just makes everything so much easier. You play with an average point guard, and you get the ball and you have to wind up making a play for yourself. And with Steve, I very rarely have to make a play for myself. The ball finds me, and all I have to do is jump up and shoot it."

Of those new Suns -- as Barkley says, "We didn't even know they were alive [before] this year," -- Bell, James Jones, and Leandro Barbosa are all averaging career highs in scoring. And all give the credit back to Nash.

"Just look at anybody they plug into the system, they score, they do well," says Richardson, who has struggled since being shipped to New York. "Anybody you put out there with him. They said that James Jones and Raja Bell and all those different guys weren't going to be able to shoot like myself and Joe. But those guys -- it has a lot to do with Steve. When you have a guy like Steve giving you the ball, you can't help but make shots."

The list of men who have won back-to-back MVPs looks like this: Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Moses Malone, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan. If Nash joins this club, it will be entry into basketball Valhalla.

"I read at least once a week about a guy that has a good week or a good month, he's a superstar now," says Barkley. "I think Tim Duncan is a superstar. I think Shaq is a superstar. I think Kevin Garnett is a superstar. I think Kobe Bryant is a superstar.

"[Nash] is a superstar."

Barkley later admitted there might be other candidates -- well, one other. Not Detroit Pistons point guard Chauncey Billups, whom Barkley considers less essential to his team than centre Ben Wallace. Not Nash's former Dallas teammate, Dirk Nowitzki. Instead, Barkley mentioned Los Angeles Clippers forward Elton Brand. But even Brand accepts second place in this particular race.

"For MVP right now, I'd have to go with Nash," he says cheerfully. "Even over me. Because without Amare Stoudemire ... he orchestrates all that. And they're No. 1 in the Pacific over us. So once we catch them, maybe I'll change my mind. But I'd have to give it to him right now."

Kind words all, but Nash, of course, does not find it hard to be humble.

"I guess in some ways, for sure," says Nash. "But I judge myself on how many wins we have, and we had more wins last year."

Ignore his words, and watch his play. Nash will not say it, but right now, he is more valuable to his team than Kobe Bryant, than Kevin Garnett, than Shaquille O'Neal. He is one of the icons, even if, while looking around the room, he does not quite feel like it.

"I'm definitely in awe, and I don't know if I have the confidence sometimes to say hi to all these guys," he says.

In other words, sometimes, Steve Nash can't believe how high he has climbed, what he has done.

Well, believe.
 

jibikao

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This is strange 'cause both Kenny Smith and Barkley "claimed" that Nash is the MVP right now after that Heat's game. lol Well, I guess they can change their opinions but to say KG is a better MVP than Nash this year is nothing but funny joke.

Like I've said before, I don't mind Kobe winning the MVP if his team does better. At the rate his team is doing right now, it's even questionable if his team can make it to the playoffs. I expect either Kings or Rocket will catch up. Kings should be.

If Kobe's team is not even a playoff team, there is NO FREAKING WAY to give MVP to Kobe. That will generate more repulsive reaction than Nash winning MVP last season! lol

The only other guys that are deserving are Lebron/Billups/Dirk.
 

jibikao

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devilalum said:
Am I the only one that sees a race issue here?

Were there white people that voted for Steve Nash last year because he was white? Of course!

Are there black people talking him down now because he's white? Of course.

Listening to Barkley tell how KG is a much better MVP candidate than Nash was weak. His rationale made no sense at all. Stephen Smith was on the other day telling how it would be a farce if Nash won over Kobe.

Of course these guys are entitled to their opinions but I believe they are racially motivated. Barkley said that Nash is not legit because the Suns style of play won't win in the playoffs?!?! Steven Smith was focused on how many points Kobe can score and the 81 point game.

Are these commentaries intended to counterbalance all the positive articles that are being written about Nash being a lock for a repeat by the predominately white press?

I don't know. I'm biased because I'm a Suns fan. I think Nash should repeat.

Maybe there is politics involved in NBA like everywhere else.... giving Nash MVP two in a row is really honoring Nash too much. I mean even Barkley himself couldn't do it, so I am not surprised if some people don't want Nash to win it. I can understand that.
 
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devilalum

devilalum

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jibikao said:
Maybe there is politics involved in NBA like everywhere else.... giving Nash MVP two in a row is really honoring Nash too much. I mean even Barkley himself couldn't do it, so I am not surprised if some people don't want Nash to win it. I can understand that.

Politics is the right word. Good thing race never factors into politics.:sarcasm: Its too bad it has to come to that. MVP and all the other post season awards are way to political at times. Why can't they just give it to the guys that deserve it?

Sure its subjective but there are some opinions out there that just don't hold water.
 

George O'Brien

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The MVP is always confusing because they can't seem to define what it means. Some of the options include:

1. League's best player

2. Overall statistical winner.

3. Leagues most dominant player

4. Best player on the best team

5 Player most essential to a successful team's success

6. Player that makes everyone else on the team better

Can a guy be MVP on a bad team? Does having other great players on his team help or hurt and by what criteria.?
 
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devilalum

devilalum

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George O'Brien said:
The MVP is always confusing because they can't seem to define what it means. Some of the options include:

1. League's best player

2. Overall statistical winner.

3. Leagues most dominant player

4. Best player on the best team

5 Player most essential to a successful team's success

6. Player that makes everyone else on the team better

Can a guy be MVP on a bad team? Does having other great players on his team help or hurt and by what criteria.?

I agree but if you focus on the words MOST VALUABLE PLAYER it makes it a lot easier.

How valuable is a guy that puts up big numbers on a bad team? Kobe's a great player but he doesn't make his team great. Maybe that's not fair, of course he's valuable but how can a player on a .500 team be the most valuable?

IMO MVP has to go to a player that plays for a top team and is obviously the main reason for that teams success. How many players meet that criteria? Nash, Duncan, I don't think Detroit has a player like that, Not Dirk...
 

HooverDam

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Ok Steve Nash is a front runner for MVP because of this fact:

he is the most VALUABLE player. KG and Kobe are great players and can score in bunches, but come playoff time both their teams may be out of it. Steve Nash makes the whole Suns system widget. It wouldve been far worse for the Suns if Nash went down instead of Amare. With Steve Nash the Suns are a 50+win team, with out him, they are maybe around .500

EDIT: And no, I dont think its a race thing. I'd like to believe most adults are past that kind of petty thinking- but thats just what Id like to believe
 

nowagimp

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jibikao said:
This is strange 'cause both Kenny Smith and Barkley "claimed" that Nash is the MVP right now after that Heat's game. lol Well, I guess they can change their opinions but to say KG is a better MVP than Nash this year is nothing but funny joke.

Like I've said before, I don't mind Kobe winning the MVP if his team does better. At the rate his team is doing right now, it's even questionable if his team can make it to the playoffs. I expect either Kings or Rocket will catch up. Kings should be.

If Kobe's team is not even a playoff team, there is NO FREAKING WAY to give MVP to Kobe. That will generate more repulsive reaction than Nash winning MVP last season! lol

The only other guys that are deserving are Lebron/Billups/Dirk.

I say only Lebron and Dirk, in addition to Nash merit MVP consideration. Billups has three other all stars on his team, so its hard to say that team wouldnt be real good with another good point guard. I'll bet Andre Miller(a better passer, poorer shooter than Billups) could lead them(the pistons) to 60 wins.
 

jibikao

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nowagimp said:
I say only Lebron and Dirk, in addition to Nash merit MVP consideration. Billups has three other all stars on his team, so its hard to say that team wouldnt be real good with another good point guard. I'll bet Andre Miller(a better passer, poorer shooter than Billups) could lead them(the pistons) to 60 wins.
I hate Piss-tons but I have to give Billups credits. I haven't seen enough Piss-tons' games so I can't judge but to last year we had 3 all-stars, Nash, Amare and Marion and that didn't make Nash less of a MVP, did it? I know the surprise factor is there (after Nash joined Suns) so that's one thing Billups doesn't have since Piss-tons is ALREADY an excellent playoff team. Now Nash is doing it again to carry Suns to playoffs without our franchise player, Amare.

I guess the only way to see if Billups is THAT important is if he gets injured or other players get injured and see how far he can carry them. lol
 
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nowagimp

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HooverDam said:
Ok Steve Nash is a front runner for MVP because of this fact:

he is the most VALUABLE player. KG and Kobe are great players and can score in bunches, but come playoff time both their teams may be out of it. Steve Nash makes the whole Suns system widget. It wouldve been far worse for the Suns if Nash went down instead of Amare. With Steve Nash the Suns are a 50+win team, with out him, they are maybe around .500

EDIT: And no, I dont think its a race thing. I'd like to believe most adults are past that kind of petty thinking- but thats just what Id like to believe

I think that there is a certain element of race involved. There are racists of all colors, which is not suprising. For some, racial dominance in sports is important to their self image: some whites cant get used to a black quarterback, and some blacks cant get used to a white NBA MVP. Its probably a minority of whites and blacks in both cases, but I have seen/heard it. It might be also that many fans want their MVP to be a do it all guy, win the game by himself, as their heroes did when they were kids. A team player who makes others better doesnt get much credit with that type of hero warship. But its really all about winning and the rest of the world has demonstrated that USA basketball was over rated in the winning area. Lesser talented teams beat team USA because they played with better teamwork. I think that teamwork is alot more fun to watch. The half court one-on-one game is boring .. and apparently cannot be used to beat the rest of the world anymore. Don Nelson taught the europeans how to play and the players, unlike NBA players, listened as they were more concerned about winning than street creds.
 

Ryanwb

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I thought Nash was being discriminated against because he's Canadian :D
 

jibikao

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nowagimp said:
I think that there is a certain element of race involved. There are racists of all colors, which is not suprising. For some, racial dominance in sports is important to their self image: some whites cant get used to a black quarterback, and some blacks cant get used to a white NBA MVP. Its probably a minority of whites and blacks in both cases, but I have seen/heard it. It might be also that many fans want their MVP to be a do it all guy, win the game by himself, as their heroes did when they were kids. A team player who makes others better doesnt get much credit with that type of hero warship. But its really all about winning and the rest of the world has demonstrated that USA basketball was over rated in the winning area. Lesser talented teams beat team USA because they played with better teamwork. I think that teamwork is alot more fun to watch. The half court one-on-one game is boring .. and apparently cannot be used to beat the rest of the world anymore. Don Nelson taught the europeans how to play and the players, unlike NBA players, listened as they were more concerned about winning than street creds.

I totally agree with you!

Speaking about race, I just realized that there were non-black people on the Eastern all-star team last night. lol
 

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Regarding Barkley: I believe he said KG was a better player than Nash, not a better MVP canidate. It was said during the TNT Top 60 players discussion. Kenny Smith said KG has never really stepped up to the plate. KG having to play with a new roster of crummy teammates over the years - is an excuse that's wearing thin, because look what at Nash has been able to do. Charles interjected with his comment, becuase he thought Kenny was putting Nash on his list over KG(neither were on his list).
 

golfcardfan

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Agreed LeBron, DIrk, Nash should be the only names on the list and right now has to go to NASH. LeBron team just average and DIrk has all kinds of talent around him. NASH without our best player still has us in the top teams in the NBA that says it all MVP, MVP, MVP!!!!!!
 

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