Nets @ Suns Wednesday game thread 12-13-2023

[ajcardfan]

Failed miserably? The first game 100% should have been a win if not for a fluke turnover in the last seconds.

2nd game we had a miserable start, but fought back and probably should have gotten the win as well.

You act like they came in and flat out kicked our ass in both games. Not what happened.

Personally, I think losing to the Spurs, under any circumstances, for what was hoped to be a NBA Title competitive team, is a miserable failure. I watched those games and it was embarrassing. But, that is just me.

 

[Mainstreet]

How does a team with Booker, KD and Beal lose to the Nets on a night when Nurkic has 15 and 22 ?

We have been waiting for Beal to save the team and frankly the problems seem to go beyond health.

Based on what we’ve seen so far does anyone think this is a championship team even if heathy?

The Suns not having Allen, Gordon and Okogie in the rotation didn't help.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Championship standards. Mediocre isn't good enough.



Considering everything, both sides of the court can be improved despite any personnel changes.

That doesn't turn mediocre into terrible though. Something can be both below standards and not terrible at the same time..

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The Suns not having Allen, Gordon and Okogie in the rotation didn't help.

Missing three important rotation players, playing the 2nd of a B2B, Beal still finding his legs, KD starting out rusty from not playing in about a week.

Had all of that and barely lost to a decent team. Oddly enough, a lot of these discussions probably wouldn't even be happening if we had pulled out a close win (which we weren't far from doing).

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Is this team as they are currently playing a championship contender? Of course not.

Is this the same way we expect this team will be playing by the end of the year? IMO almost certainly not.

This is simply going to come down to this teams ability to stay healthy and log a solid amount of games together to build chemistry.

I imagine they will be a better team by season's end than they have been so far, but how much better will have a lot to due with whether or not the team can stay healthy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Failed miserably? The first game 100% should have been a win if not for a fluke turnover in the last seconds.

LOL. Blowing a 20 point lead, at home, to a team on pace to have one of the worst records in NBA history is failing miserably.

2nd game we had a miserable start, but fought back and probably should have gotten the win as well.

LOL AGAIN. 2nd game we had Book AND Durant. We got down 20 to… again… a team on pace for one of the worst records in NBA history. And then, much like the rest of the season, couldn’t close when it mattered… AT HOME AGAINST ONE OF THE WORST NBA TEAMS EVER.

The fact that they “probably should have won” but didn’t… AT HOME… AGAIN is failing miserably.

You act like they came in and flat out kicked our ass in both games. Not what happened.

No. I act like someone who realizes that outside of our 2 pathetic home losses, the Spurs are 1-19. ANY loss to a team that’s 1-19, AT HOME no less, is awful. Doing so BACK TO BACK AT HOME is failing miserably.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Missing three important rotation players, playing the 2nd of a B2B, Beal still finding his legs, KD starting out rusty from not playing in about a week.

Had all of that and barely lost to a decent team. Oddly enough, a lot of these discussions probably wouldn't even be happening if we had pulled out a close win (which we weren't far from doing).

You keep talking about wins we “probably should have” missing out because we couldn’t pull out a close win as if that’s the exception to the rule. It’s not. Blowing close games is what’s happened all season long.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Personally, I think losing to the Spurs, under any circumstances, for what was hoped to be a NBA Title competitive team, is a miserable failure. I watched those games and it was embarrassing. But, that is just me.

And every other Suns fan who isn’t a constant Kool-Aid drinker.

 

[Mainstreet]

Missing three important rotation players, playing the 2nd of a B2B, Beal still finding his legs, KD starting out rusty from not playing in about a week.

Had all of that and barely lost to a decent team. Oddly enough, a lot of these discussions probably wouldn't even be happening if we had pulled out a close win (which we weren't far from doing).

If it was only one game, it would be a different story. No one would be concerned. However, the Suns clearly don't know how to close out games and their defense is missing in action.

I expect the Suns to get better before the next rash of injuries, but a veteran team should know how to win.

The three areas that bother me the most are defense, rebounding and turnovers.

IMO, these are fixable, but that is up to the coach and GM.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

LOL. Blowing a 20 point lead, at home, to a team on pace to have one of the worst records in NBA history is failing miserably.



LOL AGAIN. 2nd game we had Book AND Durant. We got down 20 to… again… a team on pace for one of the worst records in NBA history. And then, much like the rest of the season, couldn’t close when it mattered… AT HOME AGAINST ONE OF THE WORST NBA TEAMS EVER.

The fact that they “probably should have won” but didn’t… AT HOME… AGAIN is failing miserably.




No. I act like someone who realizes that outside of our 2 pathetic home losses, the Spurs are 1-19. ANY loss to a team that’s 1-19, AT HOME no less, is awful. Doing so BACK TO BACK AT HOME is failing miserably.

Gotta be honest, I forgot we had a 20 point lead in the 4th and that certainly makes it even worse.

That being said, this team took them lightly and paid for it. Let their foot off the gas when they thought they had the game won and probably assumed they would simply have a worse game the 2nd time around and they of course didn't.

Either way harping on those two losses all year is pretty silly IMO. It's not like this team isn't beating much better teams than the Spurs and at least hanging with teams that also happen to be very good as well.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

If it was only one game, it would be a different story. No one would be concerned. However, the Suns clearly don't know how to close out games and their defense is missing in action.

I expect the Suns to get better before the next rash of injuries, but a veteran team should know how to win.

The three areas that bother me the most are defense, rebounding and turnovers.

IMO, these are fixable, but that is up to the coach and GM.

Concern is understandable, but the mood on this board goes well beyond concern IMO.

Anyone thinking this was going to go smoothly from the jump (especially with the injuries to the big 3) were setting themselves up for disappointment.

Of course I am disappointed in the amount of games they have missed and the at times extremely sloppy play, but all things considered this team could easily be off to a much worse start to the season.

My main concern is whether this team stay healthy or not. I suspect they will be quite good if they can.

 

[Hoop Head]

Gotta be honest, I forgot we had a 20 point lead in the 4th and that certainly makes it even worse.

That being said, this team took them lightly and paid for it. Let their foot off the gas when they thought they had the game won and probably assumed they would simply have a worse game the 2nd time around and they of course didn't.

Either way harping on those two losses all year is pretty silly IMO. It's not like this team isn't beating much better teams than the Spurs and at least hanging with teams that also happen to be very good as well.

Who else have the Spurs beat?

They were brought up by someone saying the Lakers barely beat them. Why, I'm not sure. However once they entered the discussion here, the Suns back to back losses against them, which are 2 of the 3 wins the Spurs have on the season, are fair game.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

This team was always going to sink or swim depending on health. So far, the results have been very concerning. Not being able to get everyone healthy for the start of the season was the first of the warning signs. It's creating several problems:

1 - when one of the big 3 are down, the strain for creating is far too high for the healthy players
2 - these guys never play together, and it shows from a chemistry perspective

To actually win anything, we're going to need everything to come together at once, and that seems a narrow path to victory.

 

[Mainstreet]

Concern is understandable, but the mood on this board goes well beyond concern IMO.

Anyone thinking this was going to go smoothly from the jump (especially with the injuries to the big 3) were setting themselves up for disappointment.

Of course I am disappointed in the amount of games they have missed and the at times extremely sloppy play, but all things considered this team could easily be off to a much worse start to the season.

My main concern is whether this team stay healthy or not. I suspect they will be quite good if they can.

I wouldn't put too much weight in fan reaction during game threads while the game is being played. They are an emotional rollercoaster.

However, the Suns do have problems that appear fixable that have yet to be fixed. The Suns do have talent.

Part of the Suns problem is controlling tempo. Actually controlling tempo leads to better defense.

Devin Booker is doing a fantastic job of scoring and distributing the ball, but the Suns desperately need someone to play Chris Paul during the closing minutes.

Too bad TJ McConnell appears out of reach.

If the Suns are to win a championship, the Suns need someone to fill that role. Can Booker or Beal do this? I don't know.

 

[Mainstreet]

To actually win anything, we're going to need everything to come together at once, and that seems a narrow path to victory.

I think this is the gamble the Suns took when they traded for Durant and Beal.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Oh, and our bench/role players have been much worse than expected. Most of us thought this bench would be an upgrade with hand in glove fits - hasn't been the case.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think JJ needs to work the phones and see what can be had for Grayson Allen and/or Nassir Little. We need a real rebounding big that is at least 6'9" who can play a little C also. They also need a PG to run the second unit and lead the bench unit in the 4th. If we can get both, great, but we need one or the other. I'd prefer a PF so KD can play SF and use his size to his advantage even more.

I would like to keep Grayson but he's a luxury and one we can't afford given the many holes this team has. Little has played well and there's a chance someone will take him in a trade.

I'm not sure who to target but that's roughly $14 million in salary that can be moved, and brought in. So a 2 for 1 isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Oh, and our bench/role players have been much worse than expected. Most of us thought this bench would be an upgrade with hand in glove fits - hasn't been the case.

None of the “bargain buy” guys has stepped up to be truly reliable. If just ONE them (Okogie/Goodwin/KBD/Metu) actually did, it would be a huge boon to the team.

To be honest, I was a little surprised by how excited posters were getting guys who put up okay stats on terrible teams.

Unfortunately, it seems like we got what we paid for.

 

[Mainstreet]

Oh, and our bench/role players have been much worse than expected. Most of us thought this bench would be an upgrade with hand in glove fits - hasn't been the case.

This is when the discussion generally turns to coaching. IMO, the Suns do have a much better bench than the end of last season.

Allen, Gordon and Okogie being out certainly doesn't help.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think JJ needs to work the phones and see what can be had for Grayson Allen and/or Nassir Little. We need a real rebounding big that is at least 6'9" who can play a little C also. They also need a PG to run the second unit and lead the bench unit in the 4th. If we can get both, great, but we need one or the other. I'd prefer a PF so KD can play SF and use his size to his advantage even more.

I would like to keep Grayson but he's a luxury and one we can't afford given the many holes this team has. Little has played well and there's a chance someone will take him in a trade.

I'm not sure who to target but that's roughly $14 million in salary that can be moved, and brought in. So a 2 for 1 isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

I agree with you but we have been saying for years, or at least I have, the Suns need another point guard and power forward.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

None of the “bargain buy” guys has stepped up to be truly reliable. If just ONE them (Okogie/Goodwin/KBD/Metu) actually did, it would be a huge boon to the team.

To be honest, I was a little surprised by how excited posters were getting guys who put up okay stats on terrible teams.

Unfortunately, it seems like we got what we paid for.

We have two guys that I'm surprised by in terms of playing worse than expected and they are KBD and Yuta.

While I had no expectations of Yuta being a huge bench contributor, I did think he would be a more consistent 3 point threat for us.

Not sure what I was seeing with KBD, but I at least thought he could be a reliable option for 20 or so minutes a night..

 

[ASUCHRIS]

None of the “bargain buy” guys has stepped up to be truly reliable. If just ONE them (Okogie/Goodwin/KBD/Metu) actually did, it would be a huge boon to the team.

Gordon fits in that group, and has been the best by a large margin.Other than that, it's been a lot of inconsistency and bad basketball.

To be honest, I was a little surprised by how excited posters were getting guys who put up okay stats on terrible teams.

They seemed to be good fits for specific roles - that hasn't necessarily been the case. At the worst, you'd hope they'd be able to hit wide open 3's. The new acquisitions/Okogie just aren't getting it done.

Unfortunately, it seems like we got what we paid for.

It's a long season but this team will have very little time to figure it out, both in terms of chemistry and rotations. So far this has been a maddening combo of injury/experimenting. Not a very entertaining year, which is an unexpected disappointment!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We have two guys that I'm surprised by in terms of playing worse than expected and they are KBD and Yuta.

While I had no expectations of Yuta being a huge bench contributor, I did think he would be a more consistent 3 point threat for us.

Not sure what I was seeing with KBD, but I at least thought he could be a reliable option for 20 or so minutes a night..

KBD got toasted bad by Dinwiddie last night at the end, that was painful to watch.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

KBD got toasted bad by Dinwiddie last night at the end, that was painful to watch.

Too slow to stay in front of quicker players and too weak to deal with bigger wings.

 

[95pro]

I think JJ needs to work the phones and see what can be had for Grayson Allen and/or Nassir Little. We need a real rebounding big that is at least 6'9" who can play a little C also. They also need a PG to run the second unit and lead the bench unit in the 4th. If we can get both, great, but we need one or the other. I'd prefer a PF so KD can play SF and use his size to his advantage even more.

I would like to keep Grayson but he's a luxury and one we can't afford given the many holes this team has. Little has played well and there's a chance someone will take him in a trade.

I'm not sure who to target but that's roughly $14 million in salary that can be moved, and brought in. So a 2 for 1 isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

Hopefully there's a better way to get someone without giving up either of those two in Allen and Little. Outside of those two I'd also like to keep Metu.

Gordon, JO, Bol can go at anytime for me but i understand that Allen and Little probably have the most value as a trade chip. Perfect world would be to use the trade exception and waive Bol.

This is when the discussion generally turns to coaching. IMO, the Suns do have a much better bench than the end of last season.

Allen, Gordon and Okogie being out certainly doesn't help.

Even with just one star and the bench reserves, I thought they did way better than last year when we relied on DLee and the other guy we waived.