New---Keim interview on FA Philosophy

[Catfish]

This is a great piece-----just appearing on the official Arizona Cardinal's site. Keim talked of how they determined who they wanted to target, and how they mapped them out, (just like you do for the draft). He talked of having someone in the organization knowing specifics about each targeted player, and of how they weighed the return they would get for the value they spent on each player.

He also talked of how the management group reached consensus on who they selected for free agency, and how they exercised patience so that they eventually corralled 7 of the 9 players they initially sought.

Keim also explained how they were able to counter 12 million in dead cap money by the release of Rhodes and his 6 million dollar salary, and how they hoped to avoid such a situation in the future.

Check this article out-----if any of you know how to post the link to it here, please do so for me.

 

[TruColor]

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and...ilosophy/d9908f9f-379f-48de-91ef-604cf16edc1f

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I specifically liked that 7 of these signing were in the top 9 spots on their list. I'm guessing Mualuga and Bush are the other 2 of their top 9. Either way I like that they took an aggressive approach and it payed off in the sense that they got the players that they wanted. Rosters need to have a lot of average to descent players with friendly contracts in order to maintain success and we got quite afew of those guys. Maybe we took a bit of a step backwards as far as talent in this free agency period, but our salary cap and roster are better constucted for future success than about a week ago.

 

[Chopper0080]

I love how we needed to "offset" the dead cap money by releasing Rhodes. What a joke. The money is dead, why have it affect your decisions going forward. Total Cardinal thinking.

Also, if those are the FAs we are targeting, we may want to aim a bit higher.

 

[Catfish]

I specifically liked that 7 of these signing were in the top 9 spots on their list. I'm guessing Mualuga and Bush are the other 2 of their top 9. Either way I like that they took an aggressive approach and it payed off in the sense that they got the players that they wanted. Rosters need to have a lot of average to descent players with friendly contracts in order to maintain success and we got quite afew of those guys. Maybe we took a bit of a step backwards as far as talent in this free agency period, but our salary cap and roster are better constucted for future success than about a week ago.

I'll say it again, ----- we only took a step back at safety. All other FA signings have been ranked ahead of the player they replaced on our roster, including Kolb, who was replaced by a younger, bigger, stronger, more mobile QB with a stronger arm. Even Mendenhall was ranked ahead of Wells, and we signed both Cason and Powers for the cost of cutting Toler. These were not just hap-hazard picks from the FA dregs as some on this board would prefer us to think. These players EACH had someone in our FO, Scouting Department, or Coaching Staff, who knew the exact specifics of that player, and who could show exactly what we were getting for our money for that player, (by personal experience), before we put him on our numbered FA board.

So far a Safety goes, Wilson knew pretty much that he was gone after last season before it began, (even before any talk of a coaching change). He said so in pre-season, saying he feared that this would be his last Cardinal's season. As for Rhodes, cutting him translated into freeing up 12 million in dead cap space, (in return for his 6 million salary), so cutting both safeties still makes sense for this management group.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I love how we needed to "offset" the dead cap money by releasing Rhodes. What a joke. The money is dead, why have it affect your decisions going forward. Total Cardinal thinking.

Also, if those are the FAs we are targeting, we may want to aim a bit higher.

Would you agree that free agency is for filling holes on your roster? If so than for a team with plenty of holes you should be looking at quantity more than quality. We had a a lot of holes to fill and CB was one of those (especially after Toler leaving). Releasing Rhodes wasn't about upgrading the FS position specifically, but to allow us to create 1 hole while filling multiple others. We could have kept Rhodes for what would have been 1 more season (he was happy to leave the Cards and test the waters) or we could do what we did and use that money to sign multiple players.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I'll say it again, ----- we only took a step back at safety. All other FA signings have been ranked ahead of the player they replaced on our roster, including Kolb, who was replaced by a younger, bigger, stronger, more mobile QB with a stronger arm. Even Mendenhall was ranked ahead of Wells, and we signed both Cason and Powers for the cost of cutting Toler. These were not just hap-hazard picks from the FA dregs as some on this board would prefer us to think. These players EACH had someone in our FO, Scouting Department, or Coaching Staff, who knew the exact specifics of that player, and who could show exactly what we were getting for our money for that player, (by personal experience), before we put him on our numbered FA board.

So far a Safety goes, Wilson knew pretty much that he was gone after last season before it began, (even before any talk of a coaching change). He said so in pre-season, saying he feared that this would be his last Cardinal's season. As for Rhodes, cutting him translated into freeing up 12 million in dead cap space, (in return for his 6 million salary), so cutting both safeties still makes sense for this management group.

He's actually older than Kolb, but has less experience and has been knocked around a lot less so he may have more time left in his career than Kolb does.

 

[perivolaki]

He's actually older than Kolb, but has less experience and has been knocked around a lot less so he may have more time left in his career than Kolb does.

You can say that again.

 

[Stout]

I love how we needed to "offset" the dead cap money by releasing Rhodes. What a joke. The money is dead, why have it affect your decisions going forward. Total Cardinal thinking.

Also, if those are the FAs we are targeting, we may want to aim a bit higher.

I guess people are still just trying to be willfully ignorant of what is happening. The logic--which I'm sure you know and are simply ignoring--is that, without the release, we wouldn't have had cap room for all we did in FA. That's why it affects your decisions going forward. And it isn't 'total Cardinal thinking'. It's a new front office cleaning up after the old front office. Pretty simple stuff.

 

[Totally_Red]

This new Cardinals regime is a vast improvement over what came before IMO. You can nitpick a move here or there, but I'm happy with the overall effort and, yes, getting 7 of 9 targeted players is very good.

From what Mike Jurecki said yesterday, teams agents/players won't be playing the Cardinals front office for patsies anymore. He confirmed that they told Rashard Mendenhall, "If you leave here without taking our deal, we are pulling if off the table." In other words, no more shopping our offers to get more from somebody else or getting into a bidding war. That ship has sailed. Yes, it's a buyers market this offseason, but previous Cardinal management probably wouldn't have been able to exploit that reality like Steve Keim, Jason Licht, and Bruce Arians IMO.

 

[Catfish]

This new Cardinals regime is a vast improvement over what came before IMO. You can nitpick a move here or there, but I'm happy with the overall effort and, yes, getting 7 of 9 targeted players is very good.

From what Mike Jurecki said yesterday, teams won't be playing the Cardinals front office for patsies anymore. He confirmed that they told Rashard Mendenhall, "If you leave here without taking our deal, we are pulling if off the table." In other words, no more shopping our offers to get more from somebody else or getting into a bidding war. That ship has sailed. Yes, it's a buyers market this offseason, but previous Cardinal management probably wouldn't have been able to exploit that reality like Steve Keim, Jason Licht, and Bruce Arians IMO.

Amen-----

 

[Chopper0080]

I guess people are still just trying to be willfully ignorant of what is happening. The logic--which I'm sure you know and are simply ignoring--is that, without the release, we wouldn't have had cap room for all we did in FA. That's why it affects your decisions going forward. And it isn't 'total Cardinal thinking'. It's a new front office cleaning up after the old front office. Pretty simple stuff.

The facts are that dead money is already counted for. Kevin Kolb is still on the books, it is just for 7.5 mil less. That is what the teams SAVES in 2013 by cutting him. What Arians is claiming is that we are cutting Rhodes to account for the 6 mil in dead money that was already on the books. Consider we were below the cap BEFORE we cut Kolb, his 7.5 Kerry Rhodes was cut AFTER we were under the cap.

The 7.5 mil we saved by cutting Kolb accouts for almost the entire 2013 cap hits of Rashard Mendenhall(2.5), Jerraud Powers(2), Antoine Cason(1.5) and Drew Stanton(1.666). So, in short, just by cutting Kevin Kolb and using $666,667 of our cap space allowed us to sign Mendenhall, Powers, Cason, and Stanton. So with that being FACT where did the 3 mil we saved by cutting William Gay go? Where did the 6 mil we saved by Rhodes go? How about the 3.5 mil we saved by cutting Bradley? Wilson? Wells? Doucet? Schaughnessy counts for 1 mil in 2013 and Bell $905,000, so the cap savings of cutting Doucet take care of those two. Did we really spend the rest on Rashad Johnson, Lorenzo Alexander and Jasper Brinkley? If so, that is pretty stupid.

This is about 2013 financial savings, and it is an insult to fans.

 

[Chopper0080]

Would you agree that free agency is for filling holes on your roster? If so than for a team with plenty of holes you should be looking at quantity more than quality. We had a a lot of holes to fill and CB was one of those (especially after Toler leaving). Releasing Rhodes wasn't about upgrading the FS position specifically, but to allow us to create 1 hole while filling multiple others. We could have kept Rhodes for what would have been 1 more season (he was happy to leave the Cards and test the waters) or we could do what we did and use that money to sign multiple players.

With the 2013 cap savings by cutting Kolb and Doucet alone almost equaled the 2013 cap hits of Mendenhall, Stanton, Powers, Cason, Shaughnessy and Bell. Where did Rhodes 6 mil in savings go? What holes are they filling with that?

You should build through the draft, that is why you use the draft the replacements for your 2014 expiring contracts OR ensure you are in a position in 2014 to fill those hole through free agency. Cutting Rhodes to sign Bell, both of whose contracts expire in 2014 doesn't do anything to fill holes, it just increases our savings in 2013.

 

[kerouac9]

The "new process" t we've put together for managing free agency is interesting. I'm not sure you can say "the results are in, and it was a huge success" until actually seeing the product on the field. But it's an interesting change, and something I've never heard of from anyone else.

What I worry about though is that the assumptions that go into the process are faulty. In a buyer's FA market, why build assumed salary demands into your decision matrix? If we didn't call Sean Smith because we assumed that he'd price out far above what we could offer, we foreclosed a good opportunity without investigating it properly.

It would seem to make more sense to build a "board" of free agents, based on talent and scheme fit alone, at the positions that you'd like to fill, and then go from top of the list to the bottom. Why should your expectation of what they'll make fit into the equation?

 

[Totally_Red]

The "new process" t we've put together for managing free agency is interesting. I'm not sure you can say "the results are in, and it was a huge success" until actually seeing the product on the field. But it's an interesting change, and something I've never heard of from anyone else.

It looks like B.A. has a criteria he is looking for and he's placing that criteria at the center of free agency. He seems to be looking for 'leader-types'. Remember when he talked about the 7 veteran leaders that were immensely helpful at Indy last season. And it appears he is targeting 'smart' players and 'gym rats', e.g. Jarrod Powers.

You're right the final determination of free agency will be on the field.

 

[Jetstream Green]

The "new process" t we've put together for managing free agency is interesting. I'm not sure you can say "the results are in, and it was a huge success" until actually seeing the product on the field. But it's an interesting change, and something I've never heard of from anyone else.

What I worry about though is that the assumptions that go into the process are faulty. In a buyer's FA market, why build assumed salary demands into your decision matrix? If we didn't call Sean Smith because we assumed that he'd price out far above what we could offer, we foreclosed a good opportunity without investigating it properly.

It would seem to make more sense to build a "board" of free agents, based on talent and scheme fit alone, at the positions that you'd like to fill, and then go from top of the list to the bottom. Why should your expectation of what they'll make fit into the equation?

Why should your expectation of what they'll make fit into the equation? I think to an extent it comes down to time. Players are not holding on decisions of teams in general and will take the best offers as they come.

Chasing a player out of your price range and you probably will lose that player and other players in your price range because you where preoccupied with a guy you probably did not have a realistic chance to sign

 

[WildBB]

The "new process" t we've put together for managing free agency is interesting. I'm not sure you can say "the results are in, and it was a huge success" until actually seeing the product on the field. But it's an interesting change, and something I've never heard of from anyone else.

What I worry about though is that the assumptions that go into the process are faulty. In a buyer's FA market, why build assumed salary demands into your decision matrix? If we didn't call Sean Smith because we assumed that he'd price out far above what we could offer, we foreclosed a good opportunity without investigating it properly.

It would seem to make more sense to build a "board" of free agents, based on talent and scheme fit alone, at the positions that you'd like to fill, and then go from top of the list to the bottom. Why should your expectation of what they'll make fit into the equation?

I think that in the future your right, they will go by system fit and not take into account salary as much. It's just with the amount of signings that needed to take place, salary was just AS BIG a consideration this off season with all the dead CAP money involved. Quantity at a known fanancial risk factor overtook Quality and a limited amount of signings with higher future risk. It's just the way this year turned out, with needing to deal with salary structures affecting the future moving ahead.

[

 

[kerouac9]

It looks like B.A. has a criteria he is looking for and he's placing that criteria at the center of free agency. He seems to be looking for 'leader-types'. Remember when he talked about the 7 veteran leaders that were immensely helpful at Indy last season. And it appears he is targeting 'smart' players and 'gym rats', e.g. Jarrod Powers.

You're right the final determination of free agency will be on the field.

It shouldn't escape your notice that it was Steve Keim and not Bruce Arians doing the interview with Urban posted above. I think that Arians has an advisory role, but isn't driving the conversation regarding personnel.

Every coach at every level preaches that they want "smart, fast, and physical" players, teams, play, etc., etc. That's kind of meaningless to me. Whis said that he wanted a "gym rat who could lead" to play quarterback for him, and that delivered us Max Hall, Kevin Kolb, and Ryan Lindley.

I'd like to look for guys who can play football very well first. All Powers' gym rat mentality got him was four consecutive seasons ended on IR.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Why should your expectation of what they'll make fit into the equation? I think to an extent it comes down to time. Players are not holding on decisions of teams in general and will take the best offers as they come.

Chasing a player out of your price range and you probably will lose that player and other players in your price range because you where preoccupied with a guy you probably did not have a realistic chance to sign

Exactly. I understand the want that people have for sexy pickups like Smith, but when you are operating on a tight budget like the Cards are this year than you need to not waste your time talking to players out of your price range. That sounds like something Graves would have done and then we would just now be signing our first free agent and most of the guys we signed this offseason would already be taken.

 

[kerouac9]

Exactly. I understand the want that people have for sexy pickups like Smith, but when you are operating on a tight budget like the Cards are this year than you need to not waste your time talking to players out of your price range. That sounds like something Graves would have done and then we would just now be signing our first free agent and most of the guys we signed this offseason would already be taken.

This is an opinion, not a fact. There's no structural reason why the Cards should be "operating on a tight budget."

Sean Smith signed for $1M more than Greg Toler. It wouldn't have been sexy, it would have just been a solid football addition.

 

[Mulli]

This is an opinion, not a fact. There's no structural reason why the Cards should be "operating on a tight budget."

Sean Smith signed for $1M more than Greg Toler. It wouldn't have been sexy, it would have just been a solid football addition.

Bidwills being the owner = structural reason. :boo:

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

This is an opinion, not a fact. There's no structural reason why the Cards should be "operating on a tight budget."

Sean Smith signed for $1M more than Greg Toler. It wouldn't have been sexy, it would have just been a solid football addition.

The "fact" that they cut both AW and Rhodes simply to free up cap space would imply that they were indeed on a tight budget. They downgraded both of those positions simply so they could get enough money to start signing free agents.

Also Toler was already out of our price range so what does that say about Smith?

 

[JeffGollin]

The "fact" that they cut both AW and Rhodes simply to free up cap space would imply that they were indeed on a tight budget. They downgraded both of those positions simply so they could get enough money to start signing free agents.

Also Toler was already out of our price range so what does that say about Smith?

I think they've been operating within a budget, but not necessarily solely a tight one.

Steve K and Jason L probably stacked their FA board so that there was a budget established for each targeted position. Where our own FA's were involved, they probably told these guys to test the market. When the market or existing salary dictated that Toler or A-Dub or Kerry were too expensive for what they were willing to pay for a starting safety or corner, they cut those guys loose. They then went out and signed new FA's who better fit the budget parameters of each position.

It's a matter of semantics: Did we downgrade positions in order to free up money? Not specifically (we were just trying to better fit position-budgets) but the net outcome in a few situations may wind up being a downgrade.

Or not. Maybe guys like Bell, Johnson and the two corners will surprise us.

 

[WildBB]

IIt's a matter of semantics: Did we downgrade positions in order to free up money? Not specifically (we were just trying to better fit position-budgets) but the net outcome in a few situations may wind up being a downgrade.

Or not. Maybe guys like Bell, Johnson and the two corners will surprise us.

Yes, hopefully some outplay their comp and make a case to stick around a lot longer. This is an opportunity for many to contribute and show they have staying power.

 

[kerouac9]

The "fact" that they cut both AW and Rhodes simply to free up cap space would imply that they were indeed on a tight budget. They downgraded both of those positions simply so they could get enough money to start signing free agents.

Also Toler was already out of our price range so what does that say about Smith?

:sigh: Around we go again. You can choose to ignore the facts if you like, but the facts are that we could have easily afforded all these mediocre free agents simply by cutting Stewart Bradley and Kevin Kolb. The timing of those two clearly necessary cuts shielded the Cards from the criticism that they were tanking the talent on the roster just to save cash.

Releasing Kevin Kolb saved some $9M in cash flow, and Stewart Bradley saved another $5M in cash flow, which even against the cap freed up more than enough money to sign our free agents before the point when the market really became interesting to value buyers.

Toler was out of our price range for Greg Toler. There's no one that believes that Greg Toler is an even equivalent player to Sean Smith.

There's no competitive football justification for cutting either Kerry Rhodes or Adrian Wilson. There's only a financial justification that has nothing to do with freeing up cap space in 2014 or providing spending room in 2013.

If the Cards were SOOOOO very strapped against the cap, they could've saved $1M by releasing Jay Feely into the free agent pool, since it's unlikely that he'll see a lot of meaningful field goal attempts in 2013.