New Leonard-Hagler book

[Mulli]

On a side note, Caesar's Palace is totally not as cool as I imagined it to be. I know it is kinda old now, but ugh, even after renovation, it is somewhat depressing and smells of old cigarettes.

 

[Pariah]

On a side note, Caesar's Palace is totally not as cool as I imagined it to be. I know it is kinda old now, but ugh, even after renovation, it is somewhat depressing and smells of old cigarettes.

Last time I was in Vegas I stayed at the ... crap, I'm forgetting the name now... Oriental Palace? No, that's not it, but it's something like that. Anyway, it was OLD and smelled like I imagine the Rat Pack would if they were all alive today.

I mean, come on. Crack a window or something.

IMPERIAL PALACE! thought of it. phew. that was bugging me.

 

[Mulli]

Last time I was in Vegas I stayed at the ... crap, I'm forgetting the name now... Oriental Palace? No, that's not it, but it's something like that. Anyway, it was OLD and smelled like I imagine the Rat Pack would if they were all alive today.

I mean, come on. Crack a window or something.

IMPERIAL PALACE! thought of it. phew. that was bugging me.

I wanna stay at the Wynn. That place is awesome!

 

[82CardsGrad]

I wanna stay at the Wynn. That place is awesome!

In my order of preference:

1.) The Bellagio

2.) Mandalay Bay

3.) The Venetian

4.) The Wynn

5.) Paris

 

[Mulli]

In my order of preference:

1.) The Bellagio

2.) Mandalay Bay

3.) The Venetian

4.) The Wynn

5.) Paris

Have you stayed at all of them?

Are the sharks cool at the Bay?

The Venetian is silly looking, but I like it.

The Wynn's lobby seems a tad cooler than the Bellagio.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Have you stayed at all of them?

Are the sharks cool at the Bay?

The Venetian is silly looking, but I like it.

The Wynn's lobby seems a tad cooler than the Bellagio.

Yes, I've been to all of them, along with many others...

The Sharks (and the women who dance in cages at Rain) are very cool!

The rooms and service at the Venetian are very nice, and of course, taking a Gondola ride, while a bit cheesy, is nice as well...

The Wynn's lobby is very cool... almost over the top really. I like it. I just like The Bellagio better.

 

[Mulli]

Yes, I've been to all of them, along with many others...

The Sharks (and the women who dance in cages at Rain) are very cool!

The rooms and service at the Venetian are very nice, and of course, taking a Gondola ride, while a bit cheesy, is nice as well...

The Wynn's lobby is very cool... almost over the top really. I like it. I just like The Bellagio better.

i can see liking the Bellagio better. One of the women gondoliers was scream...singing as she gondoled. It was horrible, yet really funny. The blue sky is cool in a Vegas way.

 

[Pariah]

I started reading this book. I like it.

 

[Lefty]

I became a big Sugar Ray fan after watching him win in the Olympics. I still remember watching him beat Benitez to win the title on network tv, no pay per view or HBO.

At the time of the fight, I thought Leonard won but after watching the fight years later, I can see why Hagler was upset with the decision. I think Sugar Ray was smart to fight Marvin later in his career because if the two would of fought earlier before Sugar Ray hurt his eye, I think Hagler would of won.

In my opinion, both fighters were involved in two of the most exciting fights, both against Thomas Hearns. Leonard in that classic fight where he knocked out Hearns late in the fight. Hearns was winning and Sugar Ray took it to an exhausted Hearns.

The first round of the Hagler/Hearns fight is probably the most exciting single round in boxing history. The two fought like warriors. If you have never seen this fight, here is round one. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuYclaefqPQ

Here is round three, the last one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrMQJ4Z-4-c&feature=related

 

[Pariah]

I'm almost done with this one. If you don't have kids, you might finish it in one sitting...for me, that makes it a nice distraction.

It's a good, quick read. All sorts of interesting stuff in there (for example, Hagler has some freakishly thick "skull muscles" that insulate his head from blows...neat stuff).

 

[Russ Smith]

I became a big Sugar Ray fan after watching him win in the Olympics. I still remember watching him beat Benitez to win the title on network tv, no pay per view or HBO.

At the time of the fight, I thought Leonard won but after watching the fight years later, I can see why Hagler was upset with the decision. I think Sugar Ray was smart to fight Marvin later in his career because if the two would of fought earlier before Sugar Ray hurt his eye, I think Hagler would of won.

In my opinion, both fighters were involved in two of the most exciting fights, both against Thomas Hearns. Leonard in that classic fight where he knocked out Hearns late in the fight. Hearns was winning and Sugar Ray took it to an exhausted Hearns.

The first round of the Hagler/Hearns fight is probably the most exciting single round in boxing history. The two fought like warriors. If you have never seen this fight, here is round one. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuYclaefqPQ

Here is round three, the last one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrMQJ4Z-4-c&feature=related

I was going to bring that up the Hearns fight. I lost money on that fight to this day I think they stopped it too soon. What has always bothered me is that when the fight was stopped the general consensus was Hearns had the lead and Leonard had to knock him out to win. But on the scorecards the fight was actually quite close, in fact I think one of the judges actually had it either tied or Leonard ahead prior to the stoppage.

If you watched the fight essentially everyone involved thought Hearns controlled the fight so the idea that even if they hadn't stopped it, Hearns still may have lost on decision always seemed fishy to me.

Hearns was definitely wobbled but he and his handlers insisted after the fight that he was was still able to continue and they were furious the fight was stopped. The interesting thing was prior to that fight nobody had any idea what sort of chin Hearns had and the claim from his people was he could really take a punch, that fight showed he actually had a somewhat glass jaw, that he didn't take punches very well because Leonard hurt him without landing a particularly big punch.

Hearns won a lot of fights after that one but he was never quite the same, before that he was the best puncher around pound for pound, after that he wasn't nearly as feared.

I've always wondered if they hadn't stopped it would Hearns have made it to the end and how would the decision have come out.

I looked it up one of the judges had the fight 126-123 Hearns after the 13th round(10-8 to Leonard) so assuming 10-8 14th that judge had a 1 point difference going into the final round. The other judges had Hearns ahead by 2 more points.

Emmanuel Steward said while he never felt the fight should have been stopped, the problem was Hearns had overtrained, he was so obsessed with being ready that he ran out of gas. Said to this day he can't watch the fight because he knew Tommy should have won if not for the overtraining.

Great fight though as was Leonard and Hagler.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I was going to bring that up the Hearns fight. I lost money on that fight to this day I think they stopped it too soon. What has always bothered me is that when the fight was stopped the general consensus was Hearns had the lead and Leonard had to knock him out to win. But on the scorecards the fight was actually quite close, in fact I think one of the judges actually had it either tied or Leonard ahead prior to the stoppage.

If you watched the fight essentially everyone involved thought Hearns controlled the fight so the idea that even if they hadn't stopped it, Hearns still may have lost on decision always seemed fishy to me.

Hearns was definitely wobbled but he and his handlers insisted after the fight that he was was still able to continue and they were furious the fight was stopped. The interesting thing was prior to that fight nobody had any idea what sort of chin Hearns had and the claim from his people was he could really take a punch, that fight showed he actually had a somewhat glass jaw, that he didn't take punches very well because Leonard hurt him without landing a particularly big punch.

Hearns won a lot of fights after that one but he was never quite the same, before that he was the best puncher around pound for pound, after that he wasn't nearly as feared.

I've always wondered if they hadn't stopped it would Hearns have made it to the end and how would the decision have come out.

I looked it up one of the judges had the fight 126-123 Hearns after the 13th round(10-8 to Leonard) so assuming 10-8 14th that judge had a 1 point difference going into the final round. The other judges had Hearns ahead by 2 more points.

Emmanuel Steward said while he never felt the fight should have been stopped, the problem was Hearns had overtrained, he was so obsessed with being ready that he ran out of gas. Said to this day he can't watch the fight because he knew Tommy should have won if not for the overtraining.

Great fight though as was Leonard and Hagler.

Hearns lost the Leonard fight because Ray had a bigger heart and wanted it more, period... If you watch closely, at the end just before the ref stopped the fight, Leonard was actually waving the ref over as he knew Hearns was done and was essentially giving up...

Truth is, Hearns is someone who on most days, would/should beat Sugar Ray. As is most often the case, styles make fights and largely determine the outcome. Hearns' size and style are really too much for Leonard. In their rematch, Hearns knocked Ray down twice and clearly won the fight, but the judges scored it a draw... Tommy got robbed.
But in the first fight, Ray showed amazing guts. His right eye was virtually shut completely. He overcame that, along with Hearns' advantage in size and wound up beating the crap out of Tommy until he all but submitted...
Definitely an alltime great fight.

 

[Russ Smith]

Hearns lost the Leonard fight because Ray had a bigger heart and wanted it more, period... If you watch closely, at the end just before the ref stopped the fight, Leonard was actually waving the ref over as he knew Hearns was done and was essentially giving up...

Truth is, Hearns is someone who on most days, would/should beat Sugar Ray. As is most often the case, styles make fights and largely determine the outcome. Hearns' size and style are really too much for Leonard. In their rematch, Hearns knocked Ray down twice and clearly won the fight, but the judges scored it a draw... Tommy got robbed.
But in the first fight, Ray showed amazing guts. His right eye was virtually shut completely. He overcame that, along with Hearns' advantage in size and wound up beating the crap out of Tommy until he all but submitted...
Definitely an alltime great fight.

Yep remember it was about a year after that fight where Leonard retired the first time because of the detached retina. That was caused by Hearns in that fight.

Cosell kept saying Leonard had broken Hearns ribs, I guess his camp never confirmed it but Cosell insisted the doctor confirmed it after the fight.

I know when Hearns fought Hagler he broke his hand in the first round and kept fighting.

Those were the good old days for boxing, those 3 had a bunch of great fights.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Yep remember it was about a year after that fight where Leonard retired the first time because of the detached retina. That was caused by Hearns in that fight.

Cosell kept saying Leonard had broken Hearns ribs, I guess his camp never confirmed it but Cosell insisted the doctor confirmed it after the fight.

I know when Hearns fought Hagler he broke his hand in the first round and kept fighting.

Those were the good old days for boxing, those 3 had a bunch of great fights.

Here's another great book that chronicles the golden age of boxing...arguably one of the greatest periods in history of the sport:

http://www.mcbooks.com/bookstore/product_details.php?id=739

 

[SorceryatCaesars]

10 weird things about Leonard-Hagler

(as detailed in “Sorcery at Caesars”)

1. The boss of the Caesars Sports Book dreamed the night before the fight that Leonard would win a decision. He adjusted the odds to increase betting on Hagler, and helped Caesars win a bundle.
2. The Mexican judge, Jo Jo Guerra, had sparred in his youth with Sugar Ray Robinson – his “idol”. Guerra gave the new Sugar Ray a 10-2 margin of victory.
3. The Nevada judge, Dave Moretti, was developing a business partnership with Billy Baxter, a gambler who wagered at least $30,000 on Leonard. Moretti scored it 7-5 for Leonard, and was cleared by an investigation after the bout.
4. The California judge, Lou Filippo, was the referee in the “Rocky” film. He had Hagler winning 7-5.

5. Hagler gave in to the 12-round distance because Leonard argued that 15 rounds was advocated by the racist South African Boxing Association.
6. Hagler quit the promotional tour before it was finished because Leonard was too nice in their press conferences.
7. As a favor, Hagler appeared at the opening of Leonard’s restaurant in January 1986. They dined together, drank champagne, and Hagler confided that he was tired of boxing. Four months later Leonard blind-sided Hagler and challenged him.
8. They both fought for their first championship on the same card in November 1979. Leonard was the headliner and made $1 million. Hagler was in a preliminary and made $40,000.
9. Leonard’s cocaine problem and Hagler’s alleged cocaine problem were hidden from the public.
10. Referee Richard Steele did not penalize Leonard, despite repeated holding, because Hagler never complained to him.

 

[Pariah]

I read it. It was really good.

I'd recommend it to anyone!

 

[SorceryatCaesars]

Thanks Pariah!

another tidbit:

Why Hagler Could Take a Punch

(as detailed in ‘Sorcery at Caesars’)

Hagler’s lineage provided him magnificent boxing genes – that much was certain. He was graced with long arms and shoulders as wide as his ambition. More remarkable was his temporalis – a muscle that runs across the skull at both temples. Most temporalis are a quarter-inch thick, but both of Hagler’s were one inch, a phenomenon that astounded his physician when it was discovered during a routine exam in 1983. Hagler’s temporalis acted as a natural helmet and almost certainly helped him absorb blows. But he was sensitive to the notion of freakish physicality, perhaps from a racial perspective, and bridled at questions about his temporalis.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Thanks Pariah!

another tidbit:

Why Hagler Could Take a Punch

(as detailed in ‘Sorcery at Caesars’)

Hagler’s lineage provided him magnificent boxing genes – that much was certain. He was graced with long arms and shoulders as wide as his ambition. More remarkable was his temporalis – a muscle that runs across the skull at both temples. Most temporalis are a quarter-inch thick, but both of Hagler’s were one inch, a phenomenon that astounded his physician when it was discovered during a routine exam in 1983. Hagler’s temporalis acted as a natural helmet and almost certainly helped him absorb blows. But he was sensitive to the notion of freakish physicality, perhaps from a racial perspective, and bridled at questions about his temporalis.

Great stuff! Was Hagler ever knocked down or even wobbled in his career?? I watched so any of his fights, many of which were savage (Hearns, Antuofermo, Mugabi, Hamsho...). I just don't ever remember seeing him in trouble... ever...

 

[SorceryatCaesars]

never knocked down - though he slipped against juan roldan

(as detailed in ‘Sorcery at Caesars’)


Lou D’Amico had a dream. The slight and bespectacled manager of Caesars Sports Book dreamt he was in the audience at the parking lot stadium. Leonard and Hagler awaited the judges’ decision.
“I can see Leonard in the ring and Hagler in the ring,” D’Amico recalled. “Then I can see Leonard with his hands up and the crowd going berserk.”
D’Amico, then 40, awakened from his dream on the morning of the fight. He scurried into the Sports Book offices, summoned his four supervisors, and related his dream.
“I want to have Leonard going for us in this fight,” D’Amico told them.
The supervisors were speechless.
“They looked at me like I had two heads,” D’Amico recalled.
Normally, a sports book puts up odds that generate equal betting on both sides, and collects a modest handling commission. D’Amico proposed shifting the odds to generate more bets on Hagler. If Hagler lost, the Sports Book would pay out less than half of its handle, but if he won it would pay out more than half. In essence, D’Amico wanted the Sports Book to bet on Leonard.
“How is Leonard going to win?” his supervisors asked.
“I don’t know,” D’Amico said. “I just think he will.”
That was how the Caesars Sports Book came to drop its odds on a Leonard victory, from 3-1 to 2 1/2-1.