New Offensive Philosophy

[Mulli]

I hope Arians stops calling the pick-6 plays that not even Andrew Luck could overcome.

 

[football karma]

.

The chief complaint about Arians offense is it doesn't protect the quarterback, and there are numbers to support that claim.

the Colts gave up 41 sacks on 629 attempts

that puts them slightly better than average in the NFL


given a rookie QB, a rookie center, a rookie RB and a right tackle claimed for a 6th round pick -- I would say the system worked pretty well

 

[Jetstream Green]

the Colts gave up 41 sacks on 629 attempts

that puts them slightly better than average in the NFL


given a rookie QB, a rookie center, a rookie RB and a right tackle claimed for a 6th round pick -- I would say the system worked pretty well

ah, but that is ignoring how many times the QB still got knocked down. Is there a stats out there on which QB got hit the most and not necessarily a sack. I remember when Kolb was getting the crap knocked out of him against Buffalo or Miami, sacked or not.

 

[Colts_fan123]

the Colts gave up 41 sacks on 629 attempts

that puts them slightly better than average in the NFL


given a rookie QB, a rookie center, a rookie RB and a right tackle claimed for a 6th round pick -- I would say the system worked pretty well

Luck was hit more than any other QB last year, and that's not even factoring in the fact that he has great pocket presence and extends plays. If he didn't have that, he probably would've been sacked 60 times

 

[D-Dogg]

He wasn't hit more than the carousel of QBs the Cards put out there, in total.


EDIT: Take it back..he was. 116 hits given up vs. 97 for the cards.

 

[Darkside]

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Hey guys, Colts fan here. First off, I'd like to say congratulations on the hire. If you guys are happy with it, I'm happy for you.

I just want to warn you, however, that Arians is a very stubborn coach and a lot of us Colts fans were quietly glad to see him leave. He did an excellent job filling in for Chuck when he was out, and deserves to be commending for his contributions. Many Colts fans feel that he's actually a better head coach than he is a OC. The thing that would have me worried if I'm a Cards fan is his unwillingness to relinquish play-calling duties.

Even going back to his days in Pittsburgh, his tendencies are very predictable. He runs out of heavy formations while passing mostly out of spread. Very few runs out of shotgun and he rarely utilizes the TE's as passing threats in heavy personnel. The scheme itself is fine, but his play-calling is at times down right horrible. He calls long developing pass plays, regardless of the personnel he has around him. Your O-line is about as bad as ours was last year, and if he's planning on rolling out that same gameplan week-in and week-out with you guys.... good luck.

Andrew made him look a lot better than he really was. I don't know how many huge plays he made out of botched calls that were just extended by Andrew leaving the pocket or shaking off defenders hanging on him. If you guys don't have a Big Ben/Luck type to do that, your QB is going to get killed, plain and simple.

Hopefully Tom Moore will serve as a steadying force for Arians and temper his over-zealousness with the vertical passing game because if not, expect a high yardage, low point total offense (IF you have a decent QB.) The concept of a short, quick striking passing attack is completely foreign to him, and it's what got him ran out of Pittsburgh in the first place. I wasn't excited when we hired him last off-season, and it's a blessing (to me) that things worked out the way they did. Best of luck to you all. I hope it works out, but I, for one, am not the least bit sad to see him leave.




PS,

Watch out for 5-wide on 3rd and short, and plenty of bubble screens that get tackled behind the line of scrimmage!

Yikes. Sounds like many of the similar complaints about our last Coach

 

[SunsTzu]

Yikes. Sounds like many of the similar complaints about our last Coach

This is my initial reaction to the Arians hire. Moore is the only addition so far that gives me some hope.

 

[TruCard]

Hey guys, Colts fan here. First off, I'd like to say congratulations on the hire. If you guys are happy with it, I'm happy for you.

I just want to warn you, however, that Arians is a very stubborn coach and a lot of us Colts fans were quietly glad to see him leave. He did an excellent job filling in for Chuck when he was out, and deserves to be commending for his contributions. Many Colts fans feel that he's actually a better head coach than he is a OC. The thing that would have me worried if I'm a Cards fan is his unwillingness to relinquish play-calling duties.

Even going back to his days in Pittsburgh, his tendencies are very predictable. He runs out of heavy formations while passing mostly out of spread. Very few runs out of shotgun and he rarely utilizes the TE's as passing threats in heavy personnel. The scheme itself is fine, but his play-calling is at times down right horrible. He calls long developing pass plays, regardless of the personnel he has around him. Your O-line is about as bad as ours was last year, and if he's planning on rolling out that same gameplan week-in and week-out with you guys.... good luck.

Andrew made him look a lot better than he really was. I don't know how many huge plays he made out of botched calls that were just extended by Andrew leaving the pocket or shaking off defenders hanging on him. If you guys don't have a Big Ben/Luck type to do that, your QB is going to get killed, plain and simple.

Hopefully Tom Moore will serve as a steadying force for Arians and temper his over-zealousness with the vertical passing game because if not, expect a high yardage, low point total offense (IF you have a decent QB.) The concept of a short, quick striking passing attack is completely foreign to him, and it's what got him ran out of Pittsburgh in the first place. I wasn't excited when we hired him last off-season, and it's a blessing (to me) that things worked out the way they did. Best of luck to you all. I hope it works out, but I, for one, am not the least bit sad to see him leave.




PS,

Watch out for 5-wide on 3rd and short, and plenty of bubble screens that get tackled behind the line of scrimmage!

I understand and respect your view on this hire BUT, you have to consider where we stand as a football team. We have a great defense(better than the Colts) and a horrible offense. I'll take Bruce Arians calling the plays with Tom Moore as a part in this ANYDAY over what we have had here since I have been a fan. We needed to make changes to improve the offense. Period. We put in some of the best to do that. We add that with this already stellar defense and we make a run for a championship. Of course that is far-fetched but realistically, it's the right thing to do.

 

[DeAnna]

Don't listen to me. You'll soon find out yourselves. Trust me

So ... you're saying he's just an older version of Whis? Because those were a lot of the same gripes we had with Whisenhunt.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Thanks for pooping in my oatmeal.....have a nice day.

Sounds eerily like Whisenhunt.

 

[mrbyte]

Colt fan
I appreciate your insight, but I for one wont hang a guy until he's committed a crime.
That said you ruined my morning....

 

[Colts_fan123]

Look guys, I'm not trying to make you feel hopeless. I'm just telling you what we, as Colts fans, witnessed from him last season. This hire may very well work out, and he may right the ship. Like I said, he is definitely HC material. He's had a great relationship with the players on every team he's been to, and he just comes off as "one of the guys." That's a good thing because that means he'll be able to get the player's buy-in.

Once again, the main thing I would be worried about is him insisting to call plays. He is excellent at drawing up plays but when it actually comes to directing the offense, he's horrible. His calls don't seem to take into account the situational aspect of the game. He also doesn't chain many of his plays together. He'll call 2 straight run plays and pick up decent yardage, then turnaround and call for a 5-wide empty backfield. Or, he'll call a bunch of pass plays and then randomly call a play action, when prior to that point, we haven't even tried to run at all. His playbook uses way too many formations, and because of that, it hinders the offense's ability to set up the defense. The D pretty much always knew what we were trying to do, based on personnel and formation. If we came out in 5-wide and motioned a receiver in the slot, 99% of the time, it was going to be a bubble screen. Likewise, in our heavy personnel, he pretty much always motioned the tightend to the play side, and we would get stuffed. His problem is, he tries to be too cute, and appears to call plays at random.

The silver lining in that, however, is that he said he'll call plays until he finds someone who can do it better. Well, you just hired Tom Moore. Considering Arians LEARNED from Tom Moore, I'd say he might just think that Tom is up to the task. Arians is cocky and stubborn though, so I don't know.

At any rate, the Tom Moore hire makes me a little more optimistic about your situation than I was prior to his signing. Good luck. I think Arians can be a good head coach... He just needs to put the headset down


EDIT:

Oh, and for those of you saying he sounds like Whistenhunt, that makes perfect sense. He was a position coach for the Steelers while Whiz was the OC there, so......

 

[JeffGollin]

Colt fan
I appreciate your insight, but I for one wont hang a guy until he's committed a crime.
That said you ruined my morning....

Ditto that, but one question for Colt Fan:

Your team is coming off a terrific turnaround season and you must feel secure knowing you've got a QBOF who turned out to be your QBON (QB of Now). So, instead of reveling in past year's successes and getting jacked up about next year, why are you taking so much time from most likely a busy schedule to visit a Cardinal fans site (7 times) in order to provide what seems to be constructive "insight" about Arians (Do you have an axe to grind & if so, what is it? If you don't, what brings you here)?

Sorry for the skepticism - it's just "the Cardinal way."

 

[slanidrac16]

Quote from Colt Fan-123

Hopefully Tom Moore will serve as a steadying force for Arians and temper his over-zealousness with the vertical passing game because if not, expect a high yardage, low point total offense



Look at that..we already are improved because this year we had low points AND low yardage!

 

[JeffGollin]

Quote from Colt Fan-123

Hopefully Tom Moore will serve as a steadying force for Arians and temper his over-zealousness with the vertical passing game because if not, expect a high yardage, low point total offense



Look at that..we already are improved because this year we had low points AND low yardage!

One thing I'm unclear about:

Most of the discussion about a QB we might draft centers around big physical guys with cannon arms (to go with Arian's vertical passing game). Yet I never considered Peyton Manning to have a huge arm. Are we making too big a deal over the need to go with a big, strong physical guy?

 

[Mitch]

Look guys, I'm not trying to make you feel hopeless. I'm just telling you what we, as Colts fans, witnessed from him last season. This hire may very well work out, and he may right the ship. Like I said, he is definitely HC material. He's had a great relationship with the players on every team he's been to, and he just comes off as "one of the guys." That's a good thing because that means he'll be able to get the player's buy-in.

Once again, the main thing I would be worried about is him insisting to call plays. He is excellent at drawing up plays but when it actually comes to directing the offense, he's horrible. His calls don't seem to take into account the situational aspect of the game. He also doesn't chain many of his plays together. He'll call 2 straight run plays and pick up decent yardage, then turnaround and call for a 5-wide empty backfield. Or, he'll call a bunch of pass plays and then randomly call a play action, when prior to that point, we haven't even tried to run at all. His playbook uses way too many formations, and because of that, it hinders the offense's ability to set up the defense. The D pretty much always knew what we were trying to do, based on personnel and formation. If we came out in 5-wide and motioned a receiver in the slot, 99% of the time, it was going to be a bubble screen. Likewise, in our heavy personnel, he pretty much always motioned the tightend to the play side, and we would get stuffed. His problem is, he tries to be too cute, and appears to call plays at random.

The silver lining in that, however, is that he said he'll call plays until he finds someone who can do it better. Well, you just hired Tom Moore. Considering Arians LEARNED from Tom Moore, I'd say he might just think that Tom is up to the task. Arians is cocky and stubborn though, so I don't know.

At any rate, the Tom Moore hire makes me a little more optimistic about your situation than I was prior to his signing. Good luck. I think Arians can be a good head coach... He just needs to put the headset down


EDIT:

Oh, and for those of you saying he sounds like Whistenhunt, that makes perfect sense. He was a position coach for the Steelers while Whiz was the OC there, so......

Colts' Fan: I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and I think there is some merit to what you are saying---however, when you put in context what BA achieved with a rookie QB (over 4,000 yards---7th in the NFL in passing), rookie RB (over 800 yards at 4 ypc), rookie TE (over 500 yards), rookie slot WR (over 700 yards), an aging veteran WR (over 1,200 yards), and an offensive line that was makeshift and young---BA had to be doing a lot of things right...to the tune of a 11-5 record, where your defense actually gave up more total points than your offense.

I agree with you about the multiple formations---this is why Tom Moore will be a big help, because he believe in simplifying everything and establishing more clearly designated roles.

But---where your argument gets a little hazy is how you mention " big chunk" plays and are so matter of fact about it. This is BA's greatest strength as an OC---finding a way to get the "big chunk" plays.

I watched many of your games this past season and I was amazed at how well you attacked the intermediate zones and how your WRs were able to get very good RAC yards on receptions in those zones.

I was also extremely impressed at how well BA could find ways to get Reggie Wayne consistently open and on stride to catch the football. I think he had over 100 catches on the season.

As a Cardinals' fan who has suffered through the most monotonous, rinky-dink and rinky-dunk offensive game plans for three years in a row---just the thought of throwing passes longer than 15 yards more than once or twice a game has me all a-twitter.

If BA can do for Fitzgerald what he did for Wayne---we would be delirious.

Lastly, I saw some marked improvement throughout the from a number of your offensive players. As a BC grad I love Anthony Castonzo---and, man, BA and Harold Goodwin developed him nicely---I thought the job he did on Suggs in the playoff game was one of Castonzo's best ever. It wasn't perfect, but Castonzo was very effective and looking stronger than ever.

The other guy I marveled at was Donnie Avery---BA re-invented this player. Avery always had the speed, but had always underachieved until he got into BA's offense. BA knows what to to with speed guys---look at what he did with Mike Wallace in Pittsburgh...who wasn't nearly the same in Pitt this year without BA.

To me the key to what BA does right as an OC is he puts pressure on the defense to defend the entire field.

The analogy I like to use here is how basketball teams try to break a full-court press. As a coach I always felt like you HAD to pose a deep threat, otherwise you enable furious double teams and everyone moving forward---get people thinking deep and moving backward and now all kinds of passing lanes and valuable extra time is on your side.

Same thing in football.

One of the reasons why Whisenhunt's offense was so awful was he never backed the defense off---and he allowed them to p;lay in a 20 yard rectangle all game long---even on third and longs, he's throw 2 yard passes repeatedly, which is why we led the world in 3 and outs.

Steeler fans will assure you that Whisenhunt's and Arians' offenses are very different. They are not even closely similar---except in terms of the multiple heavy and bunch formations, which as you point out are mostly superfluous.

Thanks again, CF---please keep in touch---it will be interesting to see how this conversation evolves and if we will start seeing more of what you did.

 

[DeAnna]

As a Cardinals' fan who has suffered through the most monotonous, rinky-dink and dunk offensive game plans for three years in a row---just the thought of throwing passes longer than 15 yards more than once or twice a game has me all atwitter.
.

It seemed to me that the reason they did this was to get the ball out of the QB's hand quickly (due to poor protection). More the reason to go with a west coast offense, yet Kolb still got hit a lot.

 

[Totally_Red]

Colts' Fan: I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and I think there is some merit to what you are saying---however, when you put in context what BA achieved with a rookie QB (over 4,000 yards---7th in the NFL in passing), rookie RB (over 800 yards at 4 ypc), rookie TE (over 500 yards), rookie slot WR (over 700 yards), and an offensive line that was makeshift and young---BA had to be doing a lot of things right...to the tune of a 11-5 record, where your defense actually gave up more total points than your offense.

I agree with you about the multiple formations---this is why Tom Moore will be a big help, because he believe in simplifying everything and establishing more clearly designated roles.

But---where I lose you a little is how you mention " big chunk" plays and are so matter of fact about it. This is BA's greatest strength as an OC---finding a way to get the "big chunk" plays.

I watched many of your games this past season and I was amazed at how well you attacked the intermediate zones and how your WRs were able to get very good RAC yards on receptions in those zones.

I was also extremely impressed at how well BA could find ways to get Reggie Wayne, your main threat, open and on stride to catch the football. I think he had over 100 catches on the season.

As a Cardinals' fan who has suffered through the most monotonous, rinky-dink and dunk offensive game plans for three years in a row---just the thought of throwing passes longer than 15 yards more than once or twice a game has me all atwitter.

If BA can do for Fitz what he did for Wayne---we would be delirious.

Lastly, I saw some marked improvement from a number of your offensive players. As a BC grad I love Anthony Castonzo---and, man, BA and Harold Goodwin developed him nicely---I thought the job he did on Suggs in the playoff game was one of Castonzo's best ever.

The other guy I marveled at was Donnie Avery---BA re-invented this player. Avery always had the speed, but had always underachieved until he got into BA's offense. Ba knows what to to with speed guys---look at what he did with Mike Wallace in Pittsburgh.

To me the key to what BA does right as an OC is he puts pressure on the defense to defend the entire field.

The analogy I like to use here is how basketball teams try to break a full-court press. As a coach I always felt like you HAD to pose a deep threat, otherwise you enable furious double teams and everyone moving forward---get people thinking deep and moving backward and now all kinds of passing lanes and valuable extra time is on your side.

Same thing in football.

One of the reasons why Whisenhunt's offense was so awful was he never backed the defense off---and he allowed them to p;lay in a 20 yard rectangle all game long---even on third and longs, he's throw 2 yard passes repeatedly, which is why we led the world in 3 and outs.

Steeler fans will assure you that Whisenhunt's and Arians' offenses are very different. They are not even closely similar---except in terms of the multiple heavy and bunch formations, which as you point out are superfluous.

Thanks again, CF---keep in touch---it will be interesting to see how this conversation evolves and if we will start seeing what you did.

Interesting and well-thought out post Mitch! I can see you have watched a lot more Colts games than I have.

What I am impressed with about the Colts and BA is the way they came back and won several of the games, especially the Green Bay game which I did see.

 

[Mitch]

Interesting and well-thought out post Mitch! I can see you have watched a lot more Colts games than I have.

What I am impressed with about the Colts and BA is the way they came back and won several of the games, especially the Green Bay game which I did see.

TR---what intrigues me about BA's attack the intermediate to deep zones philosophy is how well it translates to winning football games.

What it does is, it gets the defense on its heels---and it opens up the running game and the middle better.

Plus, as you said, these young Colts managed to keep their poise down the stretch in so many of their games which were nailbiters. They won a ton of close games. That's not easy to do with any offense, let alone one with so many rookie and young starters.

In Pittsburgh, they wanted a more "controlled" offense which is why they moved on from BA and hired Todd Haley. But---did it translate better into wins?