New/old offense now in place?

[DeAnna]

I was just listening to the radio (didn't catch the early part of it but it was Bickley/MJ). The media was allowed into locker room after practice yesterday whereupon Porter ripped into the team for a bad practice. (They specualted it was staged).

Apparently, many players have complained about the change in offense. Kerr originally told them nothing would change, and now their offense has changed into a low-post offense.

So, looks like the offense is now back in the hands of Nash which means he'll be dribbling a lot into the pait and dishing (as he always had). No more forcing it into the post.

Did I hear that right? anyone else heard it? Oh boy. Another few weeks to re-learn the old system.

Also talked about Amare's comments, and that Porter had a talk with him. Adding fuel to the fire, they already started speculating on trades for Amare since he's becoming too high-maintenance. Are you kidding me?

Here we go again ....

 

[dreamcastrocks]

If they trade Amare, (for anyone not named Dwight Howard or LeBron James) I will strongly consider boycotting this team for a while.

 

[Mulli]

Oooh, Amare to Chicago for anyone not named Rose! Sweet!!!

 

[nowagimp]

I was just listening to the radio (didn't catch the early part of it but it was Bickley/MJ). The media was allowed into locker room after practice yesterday whereupon Porter ripped into the team for a bad practice. (They specualted it was staged).

Apparently, many players have complained about the change in offense. Kerr originally told them nothing would change, and now their offense has changed into a low-post offense.

So, looks like the offense is now back in the hands of Nash which means he'll be dribbling a lot into the pait and dishing (as he always had). No more forcing it into the post.

Did I hear that right? anyone else heard it? Oh boy. Another few weeks to re-learn the old system.

Also talked about Amare's comments, and that Porter had a talk with him. Adding fuel to the fire, they already started speculating on trades for Amare since he's becoming too high-maintenance. Are you kidding me?

Here we go again ....

I have my doubts as to whether this team can run the old offense under porter, who doesnt know it well. If you buy into the idea that nash was the offense, it should be no problem, if it was more DA, it wont be very close to the old offense.

Other teams counter the suns small ball matchups and DA made adjustments, dont know if porter has a clue. Bottom line is if the suns were going to make a drastic change, they shouldnt have dont it with an old core. It may take 2-3 years for the team to get the reps/ roster changes to make it work. Where will shaq, Hill and nash be then?

 

[S_Nash]

So basically we're going to be relying on Barnes, Bell, Barbosa and Hill's collective 3 point shooting to win us games?

Until Shaq says something to the media at all-star weekend about not getting enough touches, minutes...etc.

 

[Covert Rain]

Hopefully, this will be a mix of the old and new. There is a reason we dominating the paint this season. It's more effecient come playoff time to play inside out. Hopefully, the Suns have not forgotten that when we played teams with really good perimeter defense....we got killed. It has to be a balance or this team is in more trouble then we were before. Nash can run this offense sans D'Antoni. D'Antoni used to let Nash run the offense via the court and hardly ever called out set offensive plays.

Also, if we Trade Amare it better be for a legit big man. Those are harder to come bye in this league then a SF or SG. I guess you could use Amare to trade for a franchise PG but who? Then even if you do, there is no guarantee you will find a legit big man to play beside that player any time soon. You have to trade the guy for a legit big man, that will be in this league for awhile.

PS. Please don't let this turn out to be a Marion all over again. Rumor after rumor after rumor.

 

[Griffin]

So it took them the entire training camp, pre-season, and the first month of the regular season to figure out that the offense we ran under D'Antoni was the best suited for this team?

 

[cly2tw]

So it took them the entire training camp, pre-season, and the first month of the regular season to figure out that the offense we ran under D'Antoni was the best suited for this team?

And without an outlook of getting out of the first round in playoffs? What's that for?

 

[cly2tw]

I have my doubts as to whether this team can run the old offense under porter, who doesnt know it well. If you buy into the idea that nash was the offense, it should be no problem, if it was more DA, it wont be very close to the old offense.

Other teams counter the suns small ball matchups and DA made adjustments, dont know if porter has a clue. Bottom line is if the suns were going to make a drastic change, they shouldnt have dont it with an old core. It may take 2-3 years for the team to get the reps/ roster changes to make it work. Where will shaq, Hill and nash be then?

Agree.
And the bottomline is, when it matters, the good teams always find a way to stop Nash and his dominant dribbling becomes burden rather than help. And we don't use regular season to prepare for that? Has the mgt already given up on contending in playoffs and conceded to showoff, pretty-looking running games to entertain audience?

 

[mojorizen7]

I think this translates into "We're going to appease the ego's of our primadonna PF, our stubborn PG, and our over the hill SG etc.... with funner basketball until we can make a deal before the winter deadline."
Which IMO is just as stupid as it is smart.

 

[nashman]

Or it could be because if something doesn't change with the offense, this team won't even make the playoffs! Shaq cannot be the focal point of our offense, I am sorry not sure how the hell our new coach even needs to be told this. Terry seems to be nothing but a mouthpiece for Kerr at this point hope something changes soon.

 

[Ninjafish]

Agree.
And the bottomline is, when it matters, the good teams always find a way to stop Nash and his dominant dribbling becomes burden rather than help. And we don't use regular season to prepare for that? Has the mgt already given up on contending in playoffs and conceded to showoff, pretty-looking running games to entertain audience?

Is there any doubt that this has been the worse we've looked offensively in 5 years? (No I don't believe that it's all due to an adjustment. We've had nearly a quarter of the season go by and we've not improved at all.)

The way we used to be with Nash making all of the plays wasn't perfect but it's certainly better than the Shaq system implemented this year.

I'd much much rather be entertaining and lose in the playoffs than be boring and not make the playoffs.

 

[Covert Rain]

Or it could be because if something doesn't change with the offense, this team won't even make the playoffs! Shaq cannot be the focal point of our offense, I am sorry not sure how the hell our new coach even needs to be told this. Terry seems to be nothing but a mouthpiece for Kerr at this point hope something changes soon.

Shaq is not the focal point when Amare leads this team in shot attempts. Shaq is the first option. I think they are going to possibly go back to Amare being Option 1, then probably Nash 2, Shaq 3.

I can't stress enough that we cannot abandon going to Shaq down low. We have to do that as well to have any long term success. Having an inside out game and the ability to play halfcourt sets is essential to playoff success. If we go back to pick and roll and shooting 3's, this team is looking at just another first round ass kicking.

 

[DeAnna]

And the bottomline is, when it matters, the good teams always find a way to stop Nash and his dominant dribbling becomes burden rather than help.

If that's the case, then they can roll out the Shaq/inside/out game. Heck, they practiced it for a month. I'm sure they'll use it sporadically during the rest of the season as well.

 

[SirStefan32]

Shaq is not the focal point when Amare leads this team in shot attempts. Shaq is the first option. I think they are going to possibly go back to Amare being Option 1, then probably Nash 2, Shaq 3.

I can't stress enough that we cannot abandon going to Shaq down low. We have to do that as well to have any long term success. Having an inside out game and the ability to play halfcourt sets is essential to playoff success. If we go back to pick and roll and shooting 3's, this team is looking at just another first round ass kicking.

I couldn't agree more. Establishing presence in the low post in the first few minutes of the game is crucial. I think what we will see is just a few more pick 'n' rolls. I don't think Porter is stupid- he knows how important Shaq is. Even at this stage in his career, he is still the most dominant Center in the league.

 

[nowagimp]

I don't think Porter is stupid- he knows how important Shaq is. Even at this stage in his career, he is still the most dominant Center in the league.

If porter thinks that shaq is the most dominant center in todays NBA he IS stupid!

 

[Skumbag]

I couldn't agree more. Establishing presence in the low post in the first few minutes of the game is crucial. I think what we will see is just a few more pick 'n' rolls. I don't think Porter is stupid- he knows how important Shaq is. Even at this stage in his career, he is still the most dominant Center in the league.

is this some fantasy league where Dwight Howard isn't running rampant, ripping down 20 boards a night? Sounds almost heavenly...

Send us a postcard.

 

[Bufalay]

is this some fantasy league where Dwight Howard isn't running rampant, ripping down 20 boards a night? Sounds almost heavenly...

Send us a postcard.

You misread his post. He said that Shaq is the most dominant "Center" in the game. Last time I checked Howard doesn't play "Center" , but rather "center". Shaq is indeed the most dominant "Center".

 

[elindholm]

You misread his post. He said that Shaq is the most dominant "Center" in the game. Last time I checked Howard doesn't play "Center" , but rather "center". Shaq is indeed the most dominant "Center".

And furthermore, anyone in the Toronto media will tell you that Chris Bosh plays "Centre," so he doesn't count either.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

This thread is full of win.

 

[cly2tw]

Is there any doubt that this has been the worse we've looked offensively in 5 years? (No I don't believe that it's all due to an adjustment. We've had nearly a quarter of the season go by and we've not improved at all.)

The way we used to be with Nash making all of the plays wasn't perfect but it's certainly better than the Shaq system implemented this year.

I'd much much rather be entertaining and lose in the playoffs than be boring and not make the playoffs.

Nash dribble-dominating offense offers some certainty indeed: one and out of the playoffs. Do you really just repeat that till he is done?

Changes always require pains of adaption. We started not so bad. But Nash and Bell started to want to return to the SURE thing mentioned. The team has been in a downward spiral ever since. Yet, No pain, No gain. I'd rather that we go through pains of trying to finally feature Amare, which has a chance to be something else than the SURE THING of one-and-done!

 

[Ninjafish]

Nash dribble dominating the offense got us to the WCF 2 out of 4 years. Right now I'd be ecstatic if we made it to the WCF, as we don't even look like a playoff team.

Of course an adjustment period is expected, but the thing is again.. we haven't improved in the slightest. Like the announcers said in the last game, it looked like it was the first time our players had ever played together. That's not a good sign and more than likely just goes to show that the style is simply a horrible fit for our players.

And I thought us getting demolished by the Heat with Nash out of the game destroyed the stupid theory of Nash being the problem. His turnovers are not much more they've been in the past couple years. His assists are down obviously because he usually just throws it to Shaq and Shaq doesn't catch and score. He either backs his man down, throws it out, or gets purposely fouled. Nash's field goal percentages are just as high as they ever were. Nash is playing fine. However, the problem is the system is working terribly for everyone else.

 

[Folster]

What offense we run tonight doesn't matter much against the Hornets. They can easily out run us. Paul will carve us to pieces and dish when we collapse; West always pounds us as well. Oh yeah and no Nash tonight. The Republic better get the L ready for tonight.

 

[SirStefan32]

is this some fantasy league where Dwight Howard isn't running rampant, ripping down 20 boards a night? Sounds almost heavenly...

Send us a postcard.

I am not saying that Shaq is still THE BEST center in the league. I am a huge Dwigh Howard fan, and if I had a choice between the two to have on a team, I would take Howard over Shaq- everyone in their right mind would- that kid is a beast- 21 points, 14 (not 20) rebounds on 60% shooting. Easily the BEST big man in the league. He is a better overall player than Shaq (at this point is his career). However, if Shaq and Howard are going directly against each other- I am confident that Shaq can win that match up. Same goes for Bosh, Bynum, Yao, and even Duncan.

He is old, he is not what he used to be, but he is still a beast.

 

[cly2tw]

It's a too symplist view point to blame the problem on any particular player, be it Nash or Shaq or Amare.

Throwing it to Shaq can work if the perimeter players get used to doing it and learning a better judgment about timing and angle depending on double teaming, fronting etc. And give it to Amare could work too with players used to the concept and work around it. But none has been worked on long enough, yet we already want to abandon it cos we can't stand the adjustment pains, and the SURETHING of 2nd-round-playoff-out is so tempting.

BTW, if you watch the games closely, we normally only feed it to Shaq in the 1st and not much later. And Nash's reduced asts number has nothing to do with Shaq not scoring on catches, but due to general stagnation and no space gain on offense. This won't change by having him dominate the ball again. Turnovers will be done one way or another, either with Nash dribbling into them or other perimeter players doing it on too many no-space-gain passes.