Next years #1 draft need

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

we drastically need:

OT
OLB
SS
RB

and i think it's in that order. folks, adrian's days are numbered and we don't have a good young SS on the roster. even if rashad plays well this year, he's pegged to play FS.

 

[Duckjake]

Why do that? People are throwing Patrick Peterson under the bus after two preseason games.

Better add CB to the mix with DE and LT.

Yeah it was amazing. There were posts all over the board this week saying that Patrick Peterson is a bust and will be released after this season.

Actually there weren't any.

 

[joeshmo]

I would like to see Acho and Schofield a whole season before calling OLB a #1 need at this point in time.

As of right now I only see 2 sure fire needs, needs that could grow of course if certian young guys do not grow during the season:

LT and/or RT
SS of the future.

 

[Catfish]

I wonder if anyone would care to wait 16 games and a possible playoff before concluding that Levi is no longer in the Cards future. Just saying....

I agree completely-----Levi has been more than just adequate at LT, even though he almost certainly would be better suited to guard just like Leonard Davis was. There will be at least two premiere type LT's in the college draft next year. One of them is the kid who has blocked there for Andrew Luck at Stanford, and who had the best sacks given up record in college last year.

In defense of Levi, don't put it all on him. Whiz, nor Grimm has ever given him help when he was facing one of the premiere pass rushers in the league. They have always left him out there on an island. That is not very smart coaching in my opinion. Neither is failing to make a delayed screen pass part of our offense, so that the defense cannot simply pin their ears back and rush constantly. We have given none of our tackles this kind of help. Just saying, Levi has been forced to try to ratchet up the snap count in order to stay ahead of the premiere pass rushers, because of his slow first drop step. When he gets it right he does ok. When he gets it wrong, he gets a false start, or worse, a holding penalty. You can't blame him for not being perfect in anticipating the snap count all the time. A lot of teams would like to have a Levi Brown playing for them.

 

[Duckjake]

I agree completely-----Levi has been more than just adequate at LT, even though he almost certainly would be better suited to guard just like Leonard Davis was. There will be at least two premiere type LT's in the college draft next year. One of them is the kid who has blocked there for Andrew Luck at Stanford, and who had the best sacks given up record in college last year.

In defense of Levi, don't put it all on him. Whiz, nor Grimm has ever given him help when he was facing one of the premiere pass rushers in the league. They have always left him out there on an island. That is not very smart coaching in my opinion. Neither is failing to make a delayed screen pass part of our offense, so that the defense cannot simply pin their ears back and rush constantly. We have given none of our tackles this kind of help. Just saying, Levi has been forced to try to ratchet up the snap count in order to stay ahead of the premiere pass rushers, because of his slow first drop step. When he gets it right he does ok. When he gets it wrong, he gets a false start, or worse, a holding penalty. You can't blame him for not being perfect in anticipating the snap count all the time. A lot of teams would like to have a Levi Brown playing for them.

Well we really don't know that. Levi has only one season at LT and the offense was horrendous. We'll see soon enough if that was mostly a result of horrible QB play and everything else was adequate or better. I imagine most people will bet on it being the QB play.

They already look better than last preseason on offense. Averaging 392 yards per game so far compared to 289 for the 4 games last year.

 

[Mitch]

I would like to see Acho and Schofield a whole season before calling OLB a #1 need at this point in time.

As of right now I only see 2 sure fire needs, needs that could grow of course if certian young guys do not grow during the season:

LT and/or RT
SS of the future.

Even if Acho and Schofield are good---how long are we going to hang onto Haggans and Porter?

We need a stud edge rusher.

I watched the three guys I wanted so badly this week:

Ryan Kerrigan---is starting in Washington and he played very well at SOLB this week---had a nice sack, and in his classic style, had to break a double team to get it.

Brooks Reed---2 sacks.

Justin Houston---2 sacks.

I would have been fine with drafting offense---IF---we followed up and signed a very good edge rusher in free agency or via a trade. We did nothing. This is where the ends don't justify the means.

A good QB would go a long way to solve our offensive woes.

But to ignore the defensive needs in this draft---and you can argue that 4 of the first 5 picks were really for offense---

1. Drafting Peterson enabled the Cardinals to trade DRC in order to acquire their QB. They were basically replacing one CB with another.

2. Then you have RB Wiiliams, TE Housler and FB Sherman---and sure I like all three players, IF the other needs are addressed elsewhere. And while I like Williams---it's just hapless drafting to have to use a 1st round pick on a RB and two years later use a 2nd round pick---and we had already used 5th and 7th round picks on RBs.

In the first quarter versus GB our two DEs in the 4 man rush were Haggans and Porter and neither one of them got even within a stone's throw of Rodgers.

Schofield was the only one who showed good edge potential---but he is still going to engulfed by the better Ts.

It's an unresolved issue and it will continue to hamper the team's chances of being playoff worthy...and it puts a lot more pressure on a young secondary.

 

[joeshmo]

Even if Acho and Schofield are good---how long are we going to hang onto Haggans and Porter?

So even if Acho and Schofield are good you still want to draft a highly touted OLB prospect?

If they turn out to be good, then you draft a depth guy later in the draft to replace Haggans and Porter.

We are talking about "what ifs" here for the 2012 draft not, 20/20 hindsight and crown preseason hero's.

 

[AsUdUdE]

There are some STUDS at LT next year...

From absolute Studs like Matt Kalil (USC) and Jonathon Martin (Stanford) and Riley Reiff (Iowa), to solid prospects like Matt Reynolds (BYU), and Cordy Glenn (Geogia), next year will be the year to target the franchise LT...

Heres to hoping this happens...

 

[Duckjake]

So even if Acho and Schofield are good you still want to draft a highly touted OLB prospect?

If they turn out to be good, then you draft a depth guy later in the draft to replace Haggans and Porter.

I don't know that with the way the Cards have used their OLBs since moving to a 3-4 that they are going to get premier pressure. It just seems to me that they line them up too far to the inside where the 255 pound LB gets engulfed by the 315lb OT.

 

[joeshmo]

I don't know that with the way the Cards have used their OLBs since moving to a 3-4 that they are going to get premier pressure. It just seems to me that they line them up too far to the inside where the 255 pound LB gets engulfed by the 315lb OT.

That is just preseason. If training camp has anything to do with it and what they have practiced, you will see a ton of different fronts, including some fronts where there isnt a single guy with his hand on the ground called the ghost front, guys moving around like crazy pre-snap, and so on.

In preseason all we have seen are the standard 3 and 4 man fronts, Standard, nickel, and dime.

 

[Duckjake]

That is just preseason. If training camp has anything to do with it and what they have practiced, you will see a ton of different fronts, including some fronts where there isnt a single guy with his hand on the ground called the ghost front, guys moving around like crazy pre-snap, and so on.

In preseason all we have seen are the standard 3 and 4 man fronts, Standard, nickel, and dime.

Actually I was talking about the regular season last year. But they are doing it again. However they ran an entire series Saturday in a 2-4-5 which I thought was interesting.

 

[kerouac9]

There are some STUDS at LT next year...

From absolute Studs like Matt Kalil (USC) and Jonathon Martin (Stanford) and Riley Reiff (Iowa), to solid prospects like Matt Reynolds (BYU), and Cordy Glenn (Geogia), next year will be the year to target the franchise LT...

Heres to hoping this happens...

Yup. And the list of 2012 NFL Free Agent offensive linemen is best described as... sad?

D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Joe Staley are the two "names" on the list, but I'm not sure they'll make it to free agency, and Ferguson is probably over-rated.

 

[DoTheDew]

We needed a NT. We needed a RB. We needed a CB. What is overlooked is the difference between having to pick a player at a position because you have nothing there and picking a guy to improve one of your weaker positions.

You can live with Brian Robinson and Gabe Watson at NT you can't with Chris Liwienski at LT.

We didn't really need a RB. Hightower had already earned a starting spot. We certainly didn't need a 1st round RB. We did need a NT, but sometimes need and BPA is the same. We lucked out there.

 

[Duckjake]

We didn't really need a RB. Hightower had already earned a starting spot. We certainly didn't need a 1st round RB. We did need a NT, but sometimes need and BPA is the same. We lucked out there.

I disagree. Hightower had done nothing when handed the starting job after the initial Rams game and CKW had to put Edge back in as starter. James was coming off his 10th NFL season having rung up almost 3000 carries. There was a lot of wear and tear on that body. Edge only played only 7 more games in the NFL after 2008.

I can't say whether we needed a first round RB. I don't know much about the NFL careers of the other RBs taken that year after Wells other than LeSean McCoy and Shonn Greene.

Wells was taken only two picks earlier in 2009, #31 than Dansby was in 2004, #33. So I don't know how you really rate Wells and Williams in Cardinal lore.

They'd never picked that low in the first round before.

 

[kerouac9]

We didn't really need a RB. Hightower had already earned a starting spot. We certainly didn't need a 1st round RB. We did need a NT, but sometimes need and BPA is the same. We lucked out there.

We certainly did. The consensus was that we'd take UCONN RB Donald Brown (currently with the Colts) and that we'd been in love with him since the Senior Bowl.

Hightower was benched late in 2008 for... wait for it... FUMBLING CONSTANTLY!

 

[Duckjake]

I agree completely-----Levi has been more than just adequate at LT, even though he almost certainly would be better suited to guard just like Leonard Davis was. There will be at least two premiere type LT's in the college draft next year. One of them is the kid who has blocked there for Andrew Luck at Stanford, and who had the best sacks given up record in college last year.

In defense of Levi, don't put it all on him. Whiz, nor Grimm has ever given him help when he was facing one of the premiere pass rushers in the league. They have always left him out there on an island. That is not very smart coaching in my opinion. Neither is failing to make a delayed screen pass part of our offense, so that the defense cannot simply pin their ears back and rush constantly. We have given none of our tackles this kind of help. Just saying, Levi has been forced to try to ratchet up the snap count in order to stay ahead of the premiere pass rushers, because of his slow first drop step. When he gets it right he does ok. When he gets it wrong, he gets a false start, or worse, a holding penalty. You can't blame him for not being perfect in anticipating the snap count all the time. A lot of teams would like to have a Levi Brown playing for them.

For what its worth the Browns just extended Joe Thomas:

Browns agreed to terms with LT Joe Thomas on a seven-year, $84 million extension with $44 million guaranteed.

rotoworld

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Assuming the cards will pick in the mid 1st next year (hopefully), if they pass on Vontaze Burfict it will be a horrible mistake! Aside from his anger issues, Burfict has amazing talent that you cant pass up. He will be a Pro-Bowler within 3 years, guaranteed

 

[Buckybird]

That is just preseason. If training camp has anything to do with it and what they have practiced, you will see a ton of different fronts, including some fronts where there isnt a single guy with his hand on the ground called the ghost front, guys moving around like crazy pre-snap, and so on.

In preseason all we have seen are the standard 3 and 4 man fronts, Standard, nickel, and dime.

Joe you can only scheme so much...it comes a time when your guy on the edge has to win 1 on battles & win more than he loses. We need one of those guys badly!!!

 

[Buckybird]

Even if Acho and Schofield are good---how long are we going to hang onto Haggans and Porter?

We need a stud edge rusher.

I watched the three guys I wanted so badly this week:

Ryan Kerrigan---is starting in Washington and he played very well at SOLB this week---had a nice sack, and in his classic style, had to break a double team to get it.

Brooks Reed---2 sacks.

Justin Houston---2 sacks.

I would have been fine with drafting offense---IF---we followed up and signed a very good edge rusher in free agency or via a trade. We did nothing. This is where the ends don't justify the means.

A good QB would go a long way to solve our offensive woes.

But to ignore the defensive needs in this draft---and you can argue that 4 of the first 5 picks were really for offense---

1. Drafting Peterson enabled the Cardinals to trade DRC in order to acquire their QB. They were basically replacing one CB with another.

2. Then you have RB Wiiliams, TE Housler and FB Sherman---and sure I like all three players, IF the other needs are addressed elsewhere. And while I like Williams---it's just hapless drafting to have to use a 1st round pick on a RB and two years later use a 2nd round pick---and we had already used 5th and 7th round picks on RBs.

In the first quarter versus GB our two DEs in the 4 man rush were Haggans and Porter and neither one of them got even within a stone's throw of Rodgers.

Schofield was the only one who showed good edge potential---but he is still going to engulfed by the better Ts.

It's an unresolved issue and it will continue to hamper the team's chances of being playoff worthy...and it puts a lot more pressure on a young secondary.

Absolutely Mitch!!! Your last comment says it all...and this was a great draft to add a guy in the early rounds IMO.

 

[desertdawg]

That is just preseason. If training camp has anything to do with it and what they have practiced, you will see a ton of different fronts, including some fronts where there isnt a single guy with his hand on the ground called the ghost front, guys moving around like crazy pre-snap, and so on.

In preseason all we have seen are the standard 3 and 4 man fronts, Standard, nickel, and dime.

That sounds friggin cool, can't wait to see some of that.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Even if Acho and Schofield are good---how long are we going to hang onto Haggans and Porter?

We need a stud edge rusher.

If Acho and Schofield are "good" then why do we need a "stud edge rusher"? As much as I hate to do this, Pittsburgh has shown time and time again that 3-4 OLBs can be developed. Keep drafting midround guys over the years and replace guys that don't have potential (Will Davis, I'm talking to you!)

I watched the three guys I wanted so badly this week:

Ryan Kerrigan---is starting in Washington and he played very well at SOLB this week---had a nice sack, and in his classic style, had to break a double team to get it.

Brooks Reed---2 sacks.

Justin Houston---2 sacks.

Chris Griesen had some great games in the preseason too! He's a hall of famer fo' sho'!

But seriously, lets not get ahead of ourselves here; on one hand, fans consistently drub the Cardinals for not drafting BPA, but when they do, the fans continue to bitch incessantly about not addressing need. IMO Peterson>Kerrigan Williams>Reed and Housler MIGHT > Houston. None of those guys are proven, and as I've mentioned above, 3-4 OLBs can be developed! It takes years before college DEs can grasp the nuances of being a good 3-4 OLB.

I would have been fine with drafting offense---IF---we followed up and signed a very good edge rusher in free agency or via a trade. We did nothing. This is where the ends don't justify the means.

Who was available? Matt Roth? Schofield barely saw the field and had 1.5 less sacks than Roth. Your above point would be valid, IF pass rushers were actually available through free agency. This offseason, IMO, there were no good 3-4 OLB pass rushers available.

A good QB would go a long way to solve our offensive woes.

QB was by far our single greatest need.

But to ignore the defensive needs in this draft---and you can argue that 4 of the first 5 picks were really for offense---

See you're talking need here...the Cardinals drafted BPA. They changed their strategy. And so far it looks like this might be the best Cardinals draft since the epic Fitz-Dansby-Dockett-Smith draft.

1. Drafting Peterson enabled the Cardinals to trade DRC in order to acquire their QB. They were basically replacing one CB with another.

Yep, and taking into account retrospectively, adding Peterson looks genius now considering how the trade went down. And I hate to admit it but, Peterson>>>>>than the remaining pass rushers available when we picked. I loved Robert Quinn but he's a risky prospect in a 3-4.

2. Then you have RB Wiiliams, TE Housler and FB Sherman---and sure I like all three players, IF the other needs are addressed elsewhere. And while I like Williams---it's just hapless drafting to have to use a 1st round pick on a RB and two years later use a 2nd round pick---and we had already used 5th and 7th round picks on RBs.

But Williams is better than Brooks Reed as a prospect. It was either Sando or Somers who recently stated that, unsolicited, personnel guys from other teams told him that Williams was a steal and was the best RB in the draft. RB was a need; we have gone way too long with subpar talent at RB. And you're ignoring the Acho pick; I wasn't hot on Acho, but I'm seeing now from keying in on him during the preseason games that he's a fighter and I can see him starting at the SOLB position for years to come. Sure he won't be a Pro Bowler, but I could see him as a perennial 6-8 sack guy who defends the run well.

In the first quarter versus GB our two DEs in the 4 man rush were Haggans and Porter and neither one of them got even within a stone's throw of Rodgers.

And for the most part we were running very vanilla defenses too.

Schofield was the only one who showed good edge potential---but he is still going to engulfed by the better Ts.

Luckily he's not our only passrusher. Calais Campbell and Dockett can get to the QB too. Our fans tend to forget that we don't have to get 12 sacks a year from OLBs, because our DEs are getting 6-8 recently.

It's an unresolved issue and it will continue to hamper the team's chances of being playoff worthy...and it puts a lot more pressure on a young secondary.

I do agree, but as we say in the Army, exercise some tactical patience here. We have some young prospects on the roster that have solid potential. Let some of them develop before we move on.

Additionally we can't fix every problem, every year. That's unrealistic. If you look at the roster objectively, I think it's safe to say we've upgraded most positions on the roster this year.

Upgraded:
QB, RB (until Williams injury), WR (yes I said it, I think we're better), TE, OL depth, DL Depth, LB depth, and CB (iffy, but it's a possibility).

 

[nooch]

Offensive tackle to protect our investment in Kolb. Give O-line stabilty, and eventually may become good.

Rest of the draft Defense is fine by me.

 

[Mitch]

If Acho and Schofield are "good" then why do we need a "stud edge rusher"? As much as I hate to do this, Pittsburgh has shown time and time again that 3-4 OLBs can be developed. Keep drafting midround guys over the years and replace guys that don't have potential (Will Davis, I'm talking to you!)



Chris Griesen had some great games in the preseason too! He's a hall of famer fo' sho'!

But seriously, lets not get ahead of ourselves here; on one hand, fans consistently drub the Cardinals for not drafting BPA, but when they do, the fans continue to bitch incessantly about not addressing need. IMO Peterson>Kerrigan Williams>Reed and Housler MIGHT > Houston. None of those guys are proven, and as I've mentioned above, 3-4 OLBs can be developed! It takes years before college DEs can grasp the nuances of being a good 3-4 OLB.



Who was available? Matt Roth? Schofield barely saw the field and had 1.5 less sacks than Roth. Your above point would be valid, IF pass rushers were actually available through free agency. This offseason, IMO, there were no good 3-4 OLB pass rushers available.



QB was by far our single greatest need.



See you're talking need here...the Cardinals drafted BPA. They changed their strategy. And so far it looks like this might be the best Cardinals draft since the epic Fitz-Dansby-Dockett-Smith draft.



Yep, and taking into account retrospectively, adding Peterson looks genius now considering how the trade went down. And I hate to admit it but, Peterson>>>>>than the remaining pass rushers available when we picked. I loved Robert Quinn but he's a risky prospect in a 3-4.



But Williams is better than Brooks Reed as a prospect. It was either Sando or Somers who recently stated that, unsolicited, personnel guys from other teams told him that Williams was a steal and was the best RB in the draft. RB was a need; we have gone way too long with subpar talent at RB. And you're ignoring the Acho pick; I wasn't hot on Acho, but I'm seeing now from keying in on him during the preseason games that he's a fighter and I can see him starting at the SOLB position for years to come. Sure he won't be a Pro Bowler, but I could see him as a perennial 6-8 sack guy who defends the run well.



And for the most part we were running very vanilla defenses too.



Luckily he's not our only passrusher. Calais Campbell and Dockett can get to the QB too. Our fans tend to forget that we don't have to get 12 sacks a year from OLBs, because our DEs are getting 6-8 recently.



I do agree, but as we say in the Army, exercise some tactical patience here. We have some young prospects on the roster that have solid potential. Let some of them develop before we move on.

Additionally we can't fix every problem, every year. That's unrealistic. If you look at the roster objectively, I think it's safe to say we've upgraded most positions on the roster this year.

Upgraded:
QB, RB (until Williams injury), WR (yes I said it, I think we're better), TE, OL depth, DL Depth, LB depth, and CB (iffy, but it's a possibility).

Every year the excuse is: there weren't many good options.

In this league, sometimes you have to MAKE options.

Case in point: The Ravens. They needed a speed WR to go opposite Q. They didn't sit still and tell their fans there weren't good options.They went and traded for Lee Evans.

For years the Cardinals have not finished the job when it comes to filling the holes---and yet so many of you call it a "lack of good options."