NFC West predictions

Darkside

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I think you are being a little harsh on Fisher. Look who owns the Titans. Fisher took over a bad situation in Houston and over the next decade had some very good years. Just think that if Tobin had taken over from Ryan and took the Cards to the playoffs 6 times with only 5 losing seasons over the next 16 years with three 13-3 seasons and a 12-4 and 11-5. Heck he'd be a Saint on this board. Just like Coryell who never won a playoff game with the Cards. Fisher's not treasure but he's not trash.

Never forget that Denny Green had Kurt Warner and Edgerrin James and Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald and won 6 games. :(

I'm sure I understated his value, my point was merely that I don't consider him some type of football God, nor do I think just because the Rams got him that it necessarily means he'll turn around the franchise or own the NFC West.

The Denny Green comparison is valid to a point, but the comparison breaks down when you compare his stint with the Cards to that of Fisher's with the Titans. Until recently the Cards had one of the worst orgs in football and that's hard to overcome. While his stint with the Vikings still isn't up to par with Fisher's in Tenn, there's no denying that it's closer in comparison when you look at what he did with Cunningham, Cris Carter, Randy Moss, etc over a shorter period of time, granted.

Plus, when Fisher was in his heyday in the AFC, there wasn't the strength of competition compared to the greatest show on turf Rams in their prime. As soon as the Pats, Steelers, etc starting getting good again Fisher pretty much disappeared (getting crushed 59-0 against the Pats in 2009). Part of that is an inability to restructure the team, who had too many aging players and salary cap issues, and part of it, I believe, is the strength of the AFC reaching astronomical heights. Still, the point remains that when the AFC starting getting good he wasn't able to muster much. He probably can't be faulted for that, given the strength involved by those opponents, but it is what it is.

It's also my opinion that he chose St. Louis because he considered it a weak division that he could win. I think he'll be sorely mistaken however. And don't get me wrong, I really loved Tenn when he coached them: Eddie George was my favorite running back (I still have fond memories of watching him grind it out in the snow every year) and Steve McNair still hasn't gotten his due in my opinion--nobody was a tough guy like McNair, even though Ben Roethlisberger may come close.

His career stats are impressive, no one can deny that, but depending on how you want to look at it, you could argue a multitude of things. He made the playoffs 6 times in 17 years, but had 5 8-8 seasons, while the remaining 6 seasons were worse than 8-8. His first 5 years his best record was 8-8, and I don't know what coach nowdays even keeps their job after that.

In my mind he was the beneficiary of what I consider Tom Landry tenure: He was allowed to coach a very long time, even though he had a stint of 5 years at 8-8 (best), another 3 year gap going 5-11, 4-12, 8-8, and another going 8-8 & 6-10 before "parting ways". Andy Reid, in my opinion, is much more consistent, but doesn't get the credit of Fisher. I still think Fisher did it in a weaker division at the time and most coaches don't get that kind of opportunity. He won't be allowed to do that in St. Louis, nobody waits around anymore.
 

Duckjake

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I don't think he'll own the West because you've got his counterpart in Whisenhunt, already two 8-8 seasons and a SB appearance in just 5 years, and Harbaugh in SF. But I have to give props to any HC who can win in the same Division as Baltimore and Pittsburgh when those two teams combined for 21 wins. And win in the same Division as Peyton Manning. Plus win 10 games or more '99-'00, '02-'03 and again in '07-'08. And even though he had a lot of 8-8 seasons that means his teams were still in the hunt in December. In addition he only had back to back losing seasons once in 16 years. As for big losses even the Patriots and Belicheat got smoked 33-14 getting only 194 yards of offense against the Ravens in the playoffs in 2009.

His long tenure is part of it but he still had to win with different players in different circumstances and he did and its what I hope we get with Whisenhunt.

Can you imagine a Cardinal HC staying for 10-15 years!

On a side note Its amazing that the AFC has been a 3 team conference for 11 years. 2001-2011 only the Oakland Raiders have crashed the Colts,Patriots and Steelers Party.
 

mojorizen7

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SF 10-6
Best D in the division. If the rest of the team gets that confidence rolling again like last season the rest of the division has no chance. I dont think they're going to go away.

SEA 8-8
I'm still waiting for the Pete Carroll trainwreck to finally derail...another boom or bust season. Could win 3 games....could win 10. Weird team.

AZ 7-9
I'm liking the D,but not the philosophy on O. It seems backwards to me. Lots of skilled guys being drafted for offense,defense and special teams....but not enough emphasis on protection or pass rush. Then there's the QB...

STL 6-10
Favorable schedule. D will be much improved and the O will be more versatile finally by adding some team speed. Still not enough difference makers though it seems. If Bradford gets some protection,confidence, and the ground game gets rolling we win 6 games. If not? Stl Lou has likely wrecked a young QB.
 

Darkside

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I don't think he'll own the West because you've got his counterpart in Whisenhunt, already two 8-8 seasons and a SB appearance in just 5 years, and Harbaugh in SF. But I have to give props to any HC who can win in the same Division as Baltimore and Pittsburgh when those two teams combined for 21 wins. And win in the same Division as Peyton Manning. Plus win 10 games or more '99-'00, '02-'03 and again in '07-'08. And even though he had a lot of 8-8 seasons that means his teams were still in the hunt in December. In addition he only had back to back losing seasons once in 16 years. As for big losses even the Patriots and Belicheat got smoked 33-14 getting only 194 yards of offense against the Ravens in the playoffs in 2009.

His long tenure is part of it but he still had to win with different players in different circumstances and he did and its what I hope we get with Whisenhunt.

Can you imagine a Cardinal HC staying for 10-15 years!

On a side note Its amazing that the AFC has been a 3 team conference for 11 years. 2001-2011 only the Oakland Raiders have crashed the Colts,Patriots and Steelers Party.

I won't continue to argue about Jeff Fisher because he's had such a long tenure that I think you could make any case for or against. He's a great coach, obviously, I wasn't arguing that, I just don't think he's the savior, the God of football coaches (just like Mike Shanahan isn't).

Even though Fish had a tough job transitioning them from Houston to Tenn, which was really nasty at the time, Whisenhunt had a much more difficult job taking over this organization and turning it into what it is now. People forget, when Whisenhunt took over this was the toughest job in the NFL. There was no tougher place to turn around. Not just the culture of losing and sucking, but the perception of the front office and cheap (we're still trying to dispel that notion) as well as every other problem you can imagine with drafting and FA's.

Buddy Ryan thought he could just come in and tell us we have a winner in town. Denny Green threw fits. Dave MicGinnis was so bad you forget he was even a coach. Coach Whis comes in and all we can find to complain about is that he's too calm during press conferences and exudes that same calm demeanor.

SF coach Harbaugh isn't even in their league. He's like the coach in the middle of the year replacing the head coach when players just want to start over and rally around the new coach. They all play better. After 1 year I find it incredible, absolutely incredible, the props he's received. He took the talented team they had the year before and did something with it, but he didn't make that team, didn't groom them, didn't even coach them up, all he did was make them feel tough and like winners (as Singletary would say). Can we at least see how he deals with contracts and multiple drafts and injuries and player attitudes and all the rest of it? If 1 year made a coach then Whisenhunt would have been coach of the year in 08. SF didn't even make it to the SB, while Whis took this beleaguered, downtrodden, pathetic franchise to the SB and the playoffs the year after and beat GB (next years SB winner) while losing to the bounty-ridden Saints. That's an accomplishment. Harbaugh has done absolutely nothing in my opinion. If his brother wasn't coaching the Ravens, with success, we wouldn't even be doing this, it's only because we think it's somehow "in the blood". He doesn't impress me, nor does his sucky 49er team whom I hate. LOL.
 

Duckjake

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SF coach Harbaugh isn't even in their league. He's like the coach in the middle of the year replacing the head coach when players just want to start over and rally around the new coach. They all play better. After 1 year I find it incredible, absolutely incredible, the props he's received. He took the talented team they had the year before and did something with it, but he didn't make that team, didn't groom them, didn't even coach them up, all he did was make them feel tough and like winners (as Singletary would say). Can we at least see how he deals with contracts and multiple drafts and injuries and player attitudes and all the rest of it? If 1 year made a coach then Whisenhunt would have been coach of the year in 08.

SF didn't even make it to the SB, while Whis took this beleaguered, downtrodden, pathetic franchise to the SB and the playoffs the year after and beat GB (next years SB winner) while losing to the bounty-ridden Saints. That's an accomplishment. Harbaugh has done absolutely nothing in my opinion. If his brother wasn't coaching the Ravens, with success, we wouldn't even be doing this, it's only because we think it's somehow "in the blood". He doesn't impress me, nor does his sucky 49er team whom I hate. LOL.

I've seen that happen in baseball but not so much in football. Look at the results when McGinnis took over for Tobin and when Kuhlman replaced Stallings. 1-13 combined. I think you are correct but not in mid season. It's a talented team that has coaching problems that gets a new guy the next season that seems to work. CKW didn't exactly take over a team bereft of talent. He was also light years smarter than Green when it came to getting the most out of Kurt Warner. Now he's built his own team and we'll see how it works out this fall. Just wish we were more settled at QB.

Any coach who goes 14-4 in the NFL has done something in my book. I'm not one of those who claim anything less than a SB title is a failure. There's 32 teams. It would take 32 years for every team to just win one each. 10 or more wins. Playoffs. Division titles. That's what I consider success in the NFL. But most people don't feel that way. You'd see a HC getting fired after 5 seasons of 11-5 and no SB. lol

We had a discussion about this some time back. Would you rather have 10 years of 10+ wins and playoffs every year or one SB title and 20 years of 5-11? It was, to say the least, an interesting debate.
 
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Crimson Warrior

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SF will be interesting to see

their 2011 turnovers forced, and net turnover margin were not just good -- they were historic in how good they were -- well outside the normal range of even league leaders for those figures.

That suggests that SF's turnovers forced and net positive figure won't be repeated.

In fact, looking at other teams over the past five years or so that had league leading turnover margin: more than half of them went to a negative turnover margin the next year.

One more thing to consider (and it goes hand in hand with turnovers): SF played a lot of close games, and won nearly all of them: 7-2 in games decided by one score or less.

If SF is simply average in turnover margin next year -- I could easily see 9 wins if their offense doesn't progress.

Very good observations sir. Thanks for posting this.

I don't see any reason that our defense won't continue to play well, but I guess the 49er defense will still be pretty dominant. Flynn might change things fo SEA, but they, along with STL, still appear to be in pretty bad shape.

So I'll say:

SF 10-6
ARI 8-8 (maybe 9-7 and a wc if Kolb can perform well)
SEA 6-10
STL 5-11
 

Duckjake

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Very good observations sir. Thanks for posting this.

I don't see any reason that our defense won't continue to play well, but I guess the 49er defense will still be pretty dominant. Flynn might change things fo SEA, but they, along with STL, still appear to be in pretty bad shape.

So I'll say:

SF 10-6
ARI 8-8 (maybe 9-7 and a wc if Kolb can perform well)
SEA 6-10
STL 5-11

How Cardinal is it that in 2010 they had 8 defensive TDs and a -5 in turnovers and finished 5-11. In 2011 they had none and -13 in turnovers and finished 8-8 winning 7 of their last 9.
 

jbeecham

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Week

1 Seattle - W
2 @ New England - L
3 Philadelphia - W
4 Miami - W
5 @ St. Louis - W
6 Buffalo - W
7 @ Minnesota - W
8 San Francisco - W
9 @ Green Bay - L
10 BYE WEEK
11 @ Atlanta - L
12 St. Louis - W
13 @ New York - L
14 @Seattle - W
15 Detroit - L
16 Chicago - W
17 @ San Francisco - L

Cards - 10-6
SF - 12-4
Seattle - 8-8
STL - 5-11
 

AsUpRoDiGy

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SF: 10 - 6
Sea: 6 - 10
AZ: 6 - 10
STL: 4 - 12

Kolb will be cut after struggling, and dealing with more concussions. Tyler Wilson/Matt Barkley will be the Cards #1 draft priority in 2013.
 

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