NFL Coaching Record: Pete Carroll vs Ken Whisenhunt

[dogpoo32]

azsouthendzone: This is pretty much what this board has become lately. Way too many of the posters decide the content of the thread, based on what the title is. Very few bother to read anything longer than one or two sentenses, and they all enjoy bashing each other with one liners.

Your post was very informational. This writer was spot-on with his assesment, and clearly is not calling for Whizenhunt's firing. He has, however recognized a number of areas that Whiz has been quite peculiar in his dealings with personnel. I find NOTHING in his assessment of the current state of this team to be in error or out of line.

I concur with his findings-----and would only add one more item to the discussion. That would be Whiz's penchant for calling his own plays. I have heard him say on several occasions that "it is fun to call his own plays". While that may be true, it seems to me that a head coach with as many areas on the team that need attention, would hardly have time to add to his duties so that he can have fun.

I agree with the assessment of Anderson-----and I have already stated, that if Whiz fails to get Anderson's passing proficiency up to respectable levels by the BYE WEEK, then he will probably be forced to either go find a waiver wire replacement for DA, or start one of his rookie QB's. Neither option is a great one, though I would probably opt for the latter at this stage of the game, as there seems to be little more than other DA lookalikes on the waiver wire.

I believe that Whiz's penchant for calling plays, detracts from the other facets of the game that need attention badly. Nose tackle is the first of these that I would change. Watson is being totally wasted. Strangely, like Matt Leinart, he has done everything that this team has asked him to do. Lose weight, get stronger, learn the postition and become a force in the middle. Now he can't even suit up on Sunday. Why? With opposing teams logging 80 offensive plays per game, how can we keep the defense fresh. Having a too-old, and undersized Bryan Robinson playing the nose, is a recipe for disaster. He cannot command a double team, nor can he even handle a single blocker. The holes he leaves in our run defense up the middle are atrocious. The trash left for the linebackers to work through, and the double teams forced upon Dockett are the results of this poor showing in the middle.

I also find it very troubling that he seems either unaware that Fitzgerald is becoming totally frustrated and annoyed by DA's failure to get the ball to open receivers. This REALLY doesn't bode well if Whiz fails to get DA to a point of respectability in the passing game. Yet that seems unlikely. The result could be that FItz opts to hit the FA market at the end of his contract, rather that sign on for more of the same. That, in turn could, cause prospective players from coming here, (sort of a return to our good old days).

The possiblilty of causing permanent damage is growing each day, and the sad part is that Whiz, because he is so busy trying to correct an uncorrectable DA, or get the next play call just right for DA to excell, that he just doesn't see the big picture. Sadly, THAT IS A HEAD COACH'S JOB. It is his responsibility to identify problems on various units of his team, and get the postiion coaches to correct those problems. Can't do that if you don't see the problems because you are engrossed in a play book. Hell, I don't have the answers, but I know enough that if I smell smoke, I check for fire. I just hope someone puts out all the smoldering pockets of embers on this team before an inferno breaks out.

The post on the other board was pretty well written and made a lot of good points, using numbers to back it up. He never said Whis needs to go, nor did he say Whis can't get better. He just points out the decision making has not been the best, and that there are obvious changes that need to be made.

I like Whis, I like how he has made this team look... at times. This season's team is not last season's team, and we all knew that coming in. That said, this team is very hard to watch. They are undisciplined, and in some positions, the most talented player is not on the field.

 

[Derm]

I've noticed.

see how easy that was?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

The point is they have a very similar record. The team with expectations ran Carroll out of town. The team with no expectations, just happy they aren't a joke anymore, is content. Whisenhunt will be lucky to reach 6-10 to officially match Carroll's winning %. All I am saying is, don't rest on the Super Bowl appearance. Things can, or should I say are, getting ugly fast. Every winning or losing season has a cause. Not to prop up the other board, but great post here on the situation:

http://forums.azcardinals.com/showthread.php?t=51942

Your diatribes are getting old.

Seriously, how long have you been following the Cardinals? Rest on a super bowl appearance? Are you kidding me?

For a minute forget the superbowl appearance and the NFC West division titles and the NFC Championship he won.

What has Whisenhunt really done? He has completly changed the culture of this team - something every other coach gave lip service too but could never do. He has transformed this team into one that wont quit, plays their hearts out (even in a bad loss) and has made this franchise respectable again.

He has gotten rid of the guys that didnt buy into his system and who were, frankly not that good. He has helped to transform an aging over-the-hill QB in Kurt Warner into a Pro Bowler.

He has made this team accountable and has forced veterens (even ones who thought they were owed the starting nod) to earn their spot on the team. Ands much much more....

In contrast, coaches before Whiz had the following:

1. PLayers gave up weekly
2. Lost on the road by 4 td's or more consistently. (To bad teams)
3. Started guys that wouldnt be on the roster of most teams
4. Didnt have a winning season in 15 years and one of the worse winning percentages in the NFL over time.
5. Had never gone to the superbowl
6. Was the laughing stock of not only the NFL but of the sports world in general.
7. Had starters the likes of Raynoch Thompson and Wendell Bryant.
8. Couldnt game plan there way out of a paper sack.


I can go on and on and on. And you have the nerve, nay, the audacity, to want to run WHiz out of town b/c he got rid of a sub-par, egotistical, felt-entitled, cry baby QB who couldnt win the job when handed to him.

Yes I will continue, and suspect most others will too, in giving him the benefit of the doubt...I'd say he has earned it.

Good day

 

[Russ Smith]

Sometimes a team takes 2 steps back on the way to taking ten steps back. Some teams move forward easier than others. Ask SF.

BTW, that is your opinion. Either way they have a similar winning percentage through their first four years, possibly identical.

I think SF might have just saved their season. Don't mean they'll win the division but apparently Johnson the new OC is much more dynamic and the players like him.

Sometimes that's all it takes, going to something the players believe in.

I think that is why Matt is gone in the first place, but I think DA is probably losing the faith of his team pretty quickly too. I don't think Whiz is yet but if he continues to go with a DA for too long he might.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I think SF might have just saved their season. Don't mean they'll win the division but apparently Johnson the new OC is much more dynamic and the players like him.

We'll see... it's strange and perhaps troubling that 8 hours before Raye was fired, Sing was claiming he would remain their OC thru the balance of the season. Also, heard Wolfley speculating that Johnson could very well be that "rat" Sing was referencing a few weeks ago in his tirade regarding the leaked news about Raye's failings... If true, it's hard to imagine there will be much harmony within that team.

Sometimes that's all it takes, going to something the players believe in.

I think that is why Matt is gone in the first place, but I think DA is probably losing the faith of his team pretty quickly too. I don't think Whiz is yet but if he continues to go with a DA for too long he might.

Great point... I'm convinced Matty is gone due in large part to the concerns of other players. DA is walking on thin ice in this regard. While he has actually led the team to both game-winning TD's and has shown in rare instances that he can get the job done, those instances are just too rare. He has to show serious improvement - NOW, or he too will lose this team. Whiz won't go down holding onto DA. He will absolutely make a change when/if he feels DA is irrecoverable and/or the team has quit on him...

 

[TJ]

I've noticed.

Thank you. Your post seemed to be a subtle strike against me and had to respond. The only time I ever write anything longer than two paragraphs is for my "perspective" threads to try and curb the anxiety of the board after debacles like blow outs and major changes in personnel (of which you have complimented in the past). I will continue to do that when I see fit.

 

[Mulli]

Thank you. Your post seemed to be a subtle strike against me and had to respond. The only time I ever write anything longer than two paragraphs is for my "perspective" threads to try and curb the anxiety of the board after debacles like blow outs and major changes in personnel (of which you have complimented in the past). I will continue to do that when I see fit.

You even shortened your userid from TJUOFA2095543 to TJ. Good work.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Your diatribes are getting old.

Seriously, how long have you been following the Cardinals? Rest on a super bowl appearance? Are you kidding me?

For a minute forget the superbowl appearance and the NFC West division titles and the NFC Championship he won.

What has Whisenhunt really done? He has completly changed the culture of this team - something every other coach gave lip service too but could never do. He has transformed this team into one that wont quit, plays their hearts out (even in a bad loss) and has made this franchise respectable again.

He has gotten rid of the guys that didnt buy into his system and who were, frankly not that good. He has helped to transform an aging over-the-hill QB in Kurt Warner into a Pro Bowler.

He has made this team accountable and has forced veterens (even ones who thought they were owed the starting nod) to earn their spot on the team. Ands much much more....

In contrast, coaches before Whiz had the following:

1. PLayers gave up weekly
2. Lost on the road by 4 td's or more consistently. (To bad teams)
3. Started guys that wouldnt be on the roster of most teams
4. Didnt have a winning season in 15 years and one of the worse winning percentages in the NFL over time.
5. Had never gone to the superbowl
6. Was the laughing stock of not only the NFL but of the sports world in general.
7. Had starters the likes of Raynoch Thompson and Wendell Bryant.
8. Couldnt game plan there way out of a paper sack.


I can go on and on and on. And you have the nerve, nay, the audacity, to want to run WHiz out of town b/c he got rid of a sub-par, egotistical, felt-entitled, cry baby QB who couldnt win the job when handed to him.

Yes I will continue, and suspect most others will too, in giving him the benefit of the doubt...I'd say he has earned it.

Good day

Amen...you've been a broken record on your criticism of Whis for weeks. We get it.

 

[TJ]

You even shortened your userid from TJUOFA2095543 to TJ. Good work.

 

[football karma]

from a pragmatic point of view

the Cardinals just gave Whis an enormous contract extension

Whis isnt going anywhere for at least three years

 

[earthsci]

If the Seahawks finish 5-11 or better it will be the first time that a Pete Carroll coached NFL team has had a record as good or better that their record the year before.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

If the Seahawks finish 5-11 or better it will be the first time that a Pete Carroll coached NFL team has had a record as good or better that their record the year before.

Great stat.

 

[Sunburn]

Sorry Catfish

If a poster can get his or her point across in 4 or 5 sentences, what's the point of writing dissertations? Some of the best posters on here only write a couple of sentences but explain more than some who decide to spend half of their day writing write ups on the game. I pride myself in summarizing, paraphrasing and skimming yet still find ability to challenge other posters while giving good insight at the same time. Qualitative vs Quantitative analysis.

Thank you. Your post seemed to be a subtle strike against me and had to respond. The only time I ever write anything longer than two paragraphs is for my "perspective" threads to try and curb the anxiety of the board after debacles like blow outs and major changes in personnel (of which you have complimented in the past). I will continue to do that when I see fit.

I personally like long, substantive posts. I love Mitch's posts and I appreciate the ones I've read here. You don't speak for everyone. I'd appreciate it if, rather than discouraging those who wish to write them, you just skip the ones you find too long and keep your opinion on "quantitative analysis" to yourself.

 

[desertdawg]

Different strokes for different folks. I won't miss a Mitch post. There is a certain type of post some one can type when they are "feeling it" or "in the zone." (This aint one) I enjoy a good majority of what I read here. The short posters are cool too. (JMO) Takes all kinds right? Plus if it sucks, I just scan thru.