NFL upholds Tom Brady's four-game 'Deflategate' suspension

Mitch

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Brady is now once and for all the epitome of the Patriots' arrogance and belief that they are above the rules. Belichick too. Which is too bad because Robert Kraft is actually one of the kindest men on the planet. But, sadly, he too has gotten sucked into maelstrom of deception and haughtiness.
 

Russ Smith

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Not the best example as word has come out that the NCAA took biased action against USC.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/mcnair-671941-ncaa-documents.html

I guess the comparison fits as both the NCAA and NFL make a bevy of head scratching moves.

I read all that when it came out and saw all the USC fan reactions that it was more "proof" they got railroaded. It's complete nonsense, even in that story you linked if you read to the end they admit that essentially nobody on the committee believed McNair was credible or told them the truth. That he clearly lied about not knowing Lake(they had phone calls and I've read elsewhere emails that Lake provided which prove he knew him). He also blatantly lied about his interaction with players, he said he barely talked to them in the offseason, his own cell records showed he spoke to Bush over 300 times by cell in the time he said he barely had any contact with him. They don't know what they talked about, but they talked and he said they didnt'.

In the end it shows the NCAA had some breaches of protocol, allowing observers to speak at certain meetings was a violation, but there's no evidence that's why the penalties were more severe. If anything there were clear references to committee members thinking the penalties weren't as severe as they'd wished they were.

In the end if you read the documents everyone that had doubts about the strength of the case admitted they didn't feel strongly enough to oppose the will of the committee, that is they said I'm not as confident as you guys are but I'm willing to abide by what you decide. USC has said this is a personality thing but the documents make it clear it's because the people who were less sure how guilty USC was, were also less sure THEY were right to have doubts, so they didn't push it. They weren't sure there was enough evidence to nail USC, but they were even less sure there was any evidence that USC was innocent.

Essentially USC got nailed because they didn't cooperate, McNair in particular lied to them repeatedly and then tried to claim he'd merely forgotten to mention stuff.

I think the one thing that gets forgotten is by the time the NCAA ruled, they all knew about McNair's criminal past, his problems with dog fighting. So when you see committee members saying we didn't find him credible and we didn't think he "gets it", they were in part saying he has a history of doing questionable things and then denying or downplaying his role in them. In a court of law that may not have been permissible, but in an NCAA investigation it was. It spoke to his lack of personal character and ethics which was a huge part of the case. Even USC fans get that the minute the truth came out about McNairs past, and that USC actually knew it and retained him as coach, it was a massive blow against them in the NCAA case.

There are similarities to the Brady case. The fact is the NFL believes the Pats have a history of breaking the rules and then trying to use the legal system to hide it. They believe Brady broke the rules and then failed to cooperate. That was USC's defense strategy and it seems to have been Brady's too, if I don't cooperate at all they won't have enough evidence. in the end they can only fine or suspend me for not cooperating, they can't find me guilty.
 

Buckybird

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Brady is now once and for all the epitome of the Patriots' arrogance and belief that they are above the rules. Belichick too. Which is too bad because Robert Kraft is actually one of the kindest men on the planet. But, sadly, he too has gotten sucked into maelstrom of deception and haughtiness.

Yep!

Brady's statement that he didn't know not turning his phone over to the NFL would affect this decision proves that arrogance. Lol:trout::doi::hammer::stupid:
 

Cardsfanstl

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Yep!

Brady's statement that he didn't know not turning his phone over to the NFL would affect this decision proves that arrogance. Lol:trout::doi::hammer::stupid:

If this was a court of law he would be in trouble for obstructing justice by destroying evidence. I think 4 games is too light. 8 games would be more to my liking.
 

Buckybird

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If this was a court of law he would be in trouble for obstructing justice by destroying evidence. I think 4 games is too light. 8 games would be more to my liking.

But he does this all the time John lol ;)

But absolutely on all of your post.
 

Mitch

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If this was a court of law he would be in trouble for obstructing justice by destroying evidence. I think 4 games is too light. 8 games would be more to my liking.

And why isn't Belichick suspended?

Sean Peyton got suspended a year for BountyGate when he did not have any knowledge of Gregg Williams' bounties---and the league rationale for suspending Peyton (a recent Super Bowl winner then himself) for a whole year was that ultimately the head coach is responsible for any illegal or improper activity that goes on under his watch.

Why should Belichick get a free pass?
 

82CardsGrad

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And why isn't Belichick suspended?

Sean Peyton got suspended a year for BountyGate when he did not have any knowledge of Gregg Williams' bounties---and the league rationale for suspending Peyton (a recent Super Bowl winner then himself) for a whole year was that ultimately the head coach is responsible for any illegal or improper activity that goes on under his watch.

Why should Belichick get a free pass?

You're right of course Mitch... and what this circus again illustrates is just how inept the NFL is in managing and conducting disciplinary issues. Ray Rice... Greg Hardy... and on and on and on... It would be laughable if the consequences weren't so extreme.
 

moklerman

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You're right of course Mitch... and what this circus again illustrates is just how inept the NFL is in managing and conducting disciplinary issues. Ray Rice... Greg Hardy... and on and on and on... It would be laughable if the consequences weren't so extreme.
It's the football culture. Different rules for different individuals is ingrained into the sport.

Usually it's about players but there's no doubt some owners(and their teams) get different treatment than other owners.
 

Cardsfanstl

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And why isn't Belichick suspended?

Sean Peyton got suspended a year for BountyGate when he did not have any knowledge of Gregg Williams' bounties---and the league rationale for suspending Peyton (a recent Super Bowl winner then himself) for a whole year was that ultimately the head coach is responsible for any illegal or improper activity that goes on under his watch.

Why should Belichick get a free pass?

I agree he should also have some reprecusions.
 

Dback Jon

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Brady is now once and for all the epitome of the Patriots' arrogance and belief that they are above the rules. Belichick too. Which is too bad because Robert Kraft is actually one of the kindest men on the planet. But, sadly, he too has gotten sucked into maelstrom of deception and haughtiness.

After his statements today, the veneer is off of Kraft.


He has coddled cheaters, crooks, ignored warning signs of thuggery in Hernandez - basically win at all costs.


On the morning radio Wolf said "well, Kraft gave notice that the Patriots are going to be the Raiders of the new NFL". Newsflash - they HAVE BEEN for a decade.
 

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He didn't admit to destroying the phone. He admitted he got a new phone, as he regularly does, and gets rid of the old one.

ESPN and others via the NFL's propaganda has formed an incorrect opinion on the matter, using optics as the rationale for everything. They've employed it many times on this.

Great piece. Shows how easily people get taken for fools.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...gather-missing-text-messages/#comment-4394805

Because a multi-million dollar investigation can't look at a couple hundred or a couple dozen short text messages.

They can't try to match up the ballboy's number and Brady's number? To see if it is even there?

People assumed that some of those text messages were sent to Brady... well if so, why didn't that match up his number? They obviously knew it.

Yes this goes out to Goodell, the NFL, and the media at large....


And remember people, this is the exact type of propaganda that happens everyday about life and death issues as well. Afterall, if they'll stoop to this level about air in a football, just imagine what they'll do about actual important stuff.

They can't do any of that because the cell phone is still his private property. Let's not get this confused with a court case. Tom Brady was under no obligation to provide the phone and the NFL has no right to access his phone records. I'd be eager to see if this ever actually goes to court because then the NFL could then request his phone records. They could read all the texts and see who he called and for how long. Tom Brady knows this, so if he's innocent, he may take it to court. If he's guilty of cheating, he may bluster now but ultimately let it go.

If Tom Brady drops this case saying something like "This issue has taken the focus off of the Patriots and our ability to defend our championship. While I am not guilty, I am interested in doing what's best for the team in moving on" or something to that effect, we can either assume his phone records are full of naked pictures of his wife or that he knows there are text messages that hint at his guilt.

I'm not really sure what to believe though because the NFL did a poor job investigating (especially when leaking erroneous information and then not correcting it) and the Patriots have handled this with the grace of a 5 year old being sent to bed before ice cream.
 

CardsFan88

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They can't do any of that because the cell phone is still his private property. Let's not get this confused with a court case. Tom Brady was under no obligation to provide the phone and the NFL has no right to access his phone records. I'd be eager to see if this ever actually goes to court because then the NFL could then request his phone records. They could read all the texts and see who he called and for how long. Tom Brady knows this, so if he's innocent, he may take it to court. If he's guilty of cheating, he may bluster now but ultimately let it go.

If Tom Brady drops this case saying something like "This issue has taken the focus off of the Patriots and our ability to defend our championship. While I am not guilty, I am interested in doing what's best for the team in moving on" or something to that effect, we can either assume his phone records are full of naked pictures of his wife or that he knows there are text messages that hint at his guilt.

I'm not really sure what to believe though because the NFL did a poor job investigating (especially when leaking erroneous information and then not correcting it) and the Patriots have handled this with the grace of a 5 year old being sent to bed before ice cream.

Well given the fact the NFL had the cellphone of all the people accused of doing the 'deflating'... and then some, and they know Tom Brady's number, and could match that up at any time, and DIDN'T, I'm pretty sure that he could easily turn over the records in a court of law, which unlike the NFL, isn't likely to leak any juicy personal details, and it won't show squat as to do with deflategate. I don't know about you, but Mickey Mouse could run a tighter ship then Goodell, and I sure and the hell wouldn't trust that liar.

Even if they did match it up, which they didn't, the emails are too cryptic to prove anything, but again, since Tom Brady wasn't involved in those communications, they don't have any evidence whatsoever.

See what people are not putting together is, that IF Brady was to have had text and email communications with the 'accused', the league office already had all they needed to convict Brady per NFL rules. We've seen some, but they would of had to find more, and if he did, they would have it. Not just texts, but emails. They don't have them, because they likely don't and never existed.

That's the thing that stinks to high heaven. THEY DIDN'T NEED BRADY'S PHONE FOR ANY REASON. Yet they convicted him, because it was 'broken', and leaked the info to the lapdog press that he 'destroyed' the phone to avoid giving it to them.

All they did was talk about how Brady didn't cooperate, when it is clear, he did.

This whole thing reeks to high heaven, and not from the Patriots side.

It's going to go to court, two cases have been filed. One by the NFL in New York, and one is going to be filed by the NFLPA in Minnesota. This will go to court, and we'll see what happens. I don't like Goodell's odds at all... in EITHER jurisdiction.

This whole situation is a power struggle, authoritarian Goodell against the players, the facts of the case be danged. It's about covering his butt, not any infraction.

What people fail to realize is that Goodell is trying to create a precedent that he is judge, jury, and executioner without the need for evidence. If he somehow were to win, don't think for a second he won't wield this unnatural power at a whim against any other team that dares not to toe the company line. But I don't think his power play will work, and in the end it probably will destroy him.
 
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Buckybird

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What people fail to realize is that Goodell is trying to create a precedent that he is judge, jury, and executioner without the need for evidence. If he somehow were to win, don't think for a second he won't wield this unnatural power at a whim against any other team that dares not to toe the company line. But I don't think his power play will work, and in the end it probably will destroy him.

What you fail to look at it is that NFLPA & the players voted to give him that power with a new CBA. Even most of its team Union player reps think Brady is guilty & are pissed about how much $$$ is being spent on him trying to prove he knows nada.
 

HeavyB3

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Well given the fact the NFL had the cellphone of all the people accused of doing the 'deflating'... and then some, and they know Tom Brady's number, and could match that up at any time, and DIDN'T, I'm pretty sure that he could easily turn over the records in a court of law, which unlike the NFL, isn't likely to leak any juicy personal details, and it won't show squat as to do with deflategate. I don't know about you, but Mickey Mouse could run a tighter ship then Goodell, and I sure and the hell wouldn't trust that liar.

Even if they did match it up, which they didn't, the emails are too cryptic to prove anything, but again, since Tom Brady wasn't involved in those communications, they don't have any evidence whatsoever.

See what people are not putting together is, that IF Brady was to have had text and email communications with the 'accused', the league office already had all they needed to convict Brady per NFL rules. We've seen some, but they would of had to find more, and if he did, they would have it. Not just texts, but emails. They don't have them, because they likely don't and never existed.

That's the thing that stinks to high heaven. THEY DIDN'T NEED BRADY'S PHONE FOR ANY REASON. Yet they convicted him, because it was 'broken', and leaked the info to the lapdog press that he 'destroyed' the phone to avoid giving it to them.

All they did was talk about how Brady didn't cooperate, when it is clear, he did.

This whole thing reeks to high heaven, and not from the Patriots side.

It's going to go to court, two cases have been filed. One by the NFL in New York, and one is going to be filed by the NFLPA in Minnesota. This will go to court, and we'll see what happens. I don't like Goodell's odds at all... in EITHER jurisdiction.

This whole situation is a power struggle, authoritarian Goodell against the players, the facts of the case be danged. It's about covering his butt, not any infraction.

What people fail to realize is that Goodell is trying to create a precedent that he is judge, jury, and executioner without the need for evidence. If he somehow were to win, don't think for a second he won't wield this unnatural power at a whim against any other team that dares not to toe the company line. But I don't think his power play will work, and in the end it probably will destroy him.


So all we really know is those guys voluntarily gave up their phones, which means that anything incriminating was likely removed. They need to be able to access the records if they want to know what actually happened, and in court is the only place that can happen. Whether or not this goes to court will determine innocence and guilt. If Brady pushes this to court, he's likely not guilty. If he doesn't, he likely is. At least that's how I see it, just an opinion.
 

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The Legal Analyst on the radio this morning said the court can't/won't focus on what Brady did (or didn't do) - rather the only thing they can decide on is whether the league was within their scope of authority via the CBA
 
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Garthshort

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I can't believe the media (heard Mike and Mike this morning), who both think that it's great to see an owner out front and defending his player and team. Where was he, when the team was caught filming opponents' practices. He let his coach swing slowly in the wind. His team should just be re-named the NE Cheaters. At least, Bill Belichek makes me laugh.
 

MadCardDisease

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Jets fans fly 'cheaters' banner over Patriots practice

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ns-fly-cheaters-banner-over-patriots-practice

We don't have to tell you that Jets fans are enjoying the deflating drama that's enveloped the Patriots this offseason.

Such is the way of a (mostly one-sided) border war that's carried on -- with intermittent breaks -- for close to 20 years. The latest volley comes not from the Jets, but their fan base, specifically the Jets fan site NYJetsFans.com. On Thursday, the site sent a literal message: Flying a plane over Patriots practice with a banner that read, "CHEATERS LOOK UP!"

Kind of funny. LOL
 

CardsFan88

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So all we really know is those guys voluntarily gave up their phones, which means that anything incriminating was likely removed. They need to be able to access the records if they want to know what actually happened, and in court is the only place that can happen. Whether or not this goes to court will determine innocence and guilt. If Brady pushes this to court, he's likely not guilty. If he doesn't, he likely is. At least that's how I see it, just an opinion.

Hard to say. Didn't they get them pretty quickly? They also have stuff that 'looks' bad, including the 'deflator' comment. If they were trying to delete messages, why didn't they delete these too? Seems too perfect, or rather, imperfect, because it still landed them on suspension. Why only delete the messages that would be from Brady, if the NFL's theory was to be correct? Wouldn't they be interested in saving their own skin?

But the NFL also had access to many other people. So they had plenty of opportunity to find something, and if Brady had his phone for months, and could delete the messages, the same thing would apply to Brady. So what's the point of having the phone at all? Brady gave them all the phone numbers who contacted him, and they could match that up with the ball boys and all the others they confiscated if they wanted. Remember they searched a lot of phone. No smoke. No fire. But somehow Brady's phone mattered?

But regardless IF something is deleted of not, why not contact that 23 or so people who are involved in the NFL that Brady spoke to? It isn't hard, especially not for an investigation that has spent multi-millions. But Goodell said it was 'too hard'. More like they KNEW it was a dead end, because they didn't see anything on anyone else's phone, and they probably already saw the phones of almost everyone else and didn't find anything.

People have to understand, that there IS legal tampering that goes on. I'm sure it goes on ALL THE TIME. From uniforms, to cleats, everything involved I bet someone somewhere is altering stuff just within the rules, and sometimes outside of them. But somehow this is a big deal? Something they can't even proved happened?

It wouldn't surprise me that what Brady or the ball boys are 'guilty' of is that they wanted to keep the balls as CLOSE to the minimum as possible. Which would technically be legal AND explain some of the comments. That's the point, the comments don't explain illegality, but they do seem to hint at something. But nothing concrete to ANY illegality, let alone that Brady orchestrated illegality (a rules violation).

But what we know for sure is the NFL has been playing the public perception slander game from day 1, and this HAS become about Goodell's and the NFL's competence being confirmed more then anything against Brady, it's just the regular people think it's about Brady. It's more about whether or not Goodell can act as judge, jury, and executioner without ANY evidence of wrongdoing against ANY team, going forward, ANY TIME he wants.

That should scare any NFL fan. It's a power play. If Goodell wins, all teams watch out.

Ultimately we don't know what happened, but neither does the NFL, and they are the ones pressing the issue and issuing penalties for a 'crime' they aren't even sure happened.

Think about Kraft, he was 100 percent right. He realized that the NFL was in a bind, and the shield can be hurt big time, if Goodell goes down in flames on this. So he gave them a pound of flesh to silence the matter. Like the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy knew he had to find a way for BOTH sides to save face, and so the answer was pulling obsolete missiles out of Turkey in return for missiles out of Cuba. This is basically what Kraft did. He took one for the team, and Goodell screwed him good.

Instead Roger Goebbels went on his crusade full bore, and used the media to portray things inaccurately (once again) to cover for the fact that they didn't have anything, and were never going to get to see Brady's phone, and never would of found anything out even if they did (because they had everything already AND if not, he would of deleted it by then). So the whole phone being replaced turning into 'Destroy phone= Destroyed evidence= Brady guilty' narrative/meme pushed out by the NFL was nothing but a red herring put out by the league. It's disgusting. They're playing with us.

Anyways, tomorrow Mort is supposed to talk about the 2 PSI under for 11 of 12 footballs tomorrow on the radio at 7:30 ET. Maybe he continues to tow the line, or maybe because it made him look like a complete idiot, he'll come clean. We'll see.
 

8ndkorner

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Innocent people don't destroy there phones. Lawyers said they'd sit down with his attorney and only go over texts between him and the ball boy...nothing else would be relevant or released. He was told that and then destroyed it.
Astric all his games in my opinion
Some fool will support Brady here...coming in 3,2,1...

Destroying his phone is uncalled for...
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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Just take your suspension and STHU everyone in the Cheatriots org!
 

Jim Otis

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I think Brady will win in the courtroom , not because he is innocent ,(I think he is guilty) I don't think real judges like anything about Rogers Kangaroo Court .
Real judge makes a ruling , there is an appeal , a separate court looks over every action taken by that judge ,and either upholds or overturns his ruling .
Judge Roger makes a ruling , there is an appeal , Judge Roger hears the appeal . Real judges see Roger presiding over a Kangaroo Court , thats why he has been losing every case in a real courtroom .
 

BigRedRage

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wow, people are really passionate about this. some very long replies. he got a 4 game suspension, I find it fitting. :shrug:
 

slanidrac16

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Greg Hardy 4 games for beating up a woman and throwing her on to a pile of guns.

Tom Brady 4 games for letting some air out of the ball.

I don't care who you are there is some kind of imbalance here.

I'm really getting sick of Goodell. I've never cared about any NFL commissioner in the past, but this guy irks me.
 

Buckybird

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he got a 4 game suspension, I find it fitting. :shrug:

Yep.

How Bellicheat escaped penalty should be the question. Didn't Payton get suspended for the year despite (supposedly) not knowing about bounty gate? Double standered?
 

Dback Jon

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I think Brady will win in the courtroom , not because he is innocent ,(I think he is guilty) I don't think real judges like anything about Rogers Kangaroo Court .
Real judge makes a ruling , there is an appeal , a separate court looks over every action taken by that judge ,and either upholds or overturns his ruling .
Judge Roger makes a ruling , there is an appeal , Judge Roger hears the appeal . Real judges see Roger presiding over a Kangaroo Court , thats why he has been losing every case in a real courtroom .


Except the only thing the judge will look at is did he follow the CBA.

And he did.

Case dismissed.
 

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