NFLPA applies for decertification.

[Buckybird]

Did Smith say what the actual proposal was?

Nope he just said the owners were lying. I'm sure you can see his comments on NFL .com

 

[Buckybird]

Did Smith say what the actual proposal was?

found this...vague

http://www.nfllockout.com/

 

[Snakester]

I hope the owners break the players union and throw it out with the garbage that it is. Everything that I heard the owners offer the players today on the NFL network was amazing. And they turned it down. Let them all flip burgers for min-wage and see what the real world is about and maybe they will come down off their high horse and realize that they are being offered way more than they could ever deserve. The owners could lock out the players forever and start completely over and in two years not miss a beat while those 1800 players will be out of a job. Of course most of them would cross the picket line when they realized they would be out of a job that pays them millions.

 

[joeshmo]

I hope the owners break the players union and throw it out with the garbage that it is. Everything that I heard the owners offer the players today on the NFL network was amazing. And they turned it down. Let them all flip burgers for min-wage and see what the real world is about and maybe they will come down off their high horse and realize that they are being offered way more than they could ever deserve. The owners could lock out the players forever and start completely over and in two years not miss a beat while those 1800 players will be out of a job. Of course most of them would cross the picket line when they realized they would be out of a job that pays them millions.

If the shown proposal was true I agree, we still dont have concrete stuff on the money though which is rumors are true the owners lowered their demand by more then half. There is actually some rumors going around that some owners blew a sigh of relief that they did not accept it, that is how good the deal was, they were scared of their own proposal being accepted.

 

[Snakester]

If the shown proposal was true I agree, we still dont have concrete stuff on the money though which is rumors are true the owners lowered their demand by more then half. There is actually some rumors going around that some owners blew a sigh of relief that they did not accept it, that is how good the deal was, they were scared of their own proposal being accepted.

I know I haven't heard exactly what the players union offer was yet, but just hearing what the owners offered was amazing. I can't believe anybody would turn that down.

 

[Buckybird]

I know I haven't heard exactly what the players union offer was yet, but just hearing what the owners offered was amazing. I can't believe anybody would turn that down.

The greedy... led by a pompus ass new leader trying to prove he's not Gene Upshaw & friendly with NFL owners & its Commisioner.

 

[clif]

For a bunch of people that bitch and moan about ownership as much as you guys do you all are sure to jump to their defense. Who the hell cares what they are doing in march. I'll get worked up if august rolls around and there isn't football. In the mean time they all are taking you guys for a spin.

 

[Buckybird]

For a bunch of people that bitch and moan about ownership as much as you guys do you all are sure to jump to their defense. Who the hell cares what they are doing in march. I'll get worked up if august rolls around and there isn't football. In the mean time they all are taking you guys for a spin.

That may very well happen clif...the owners just locked out the players & this story is getting uglier by the day. Players may win hundreds of millions of $$$ in a lawsuit. If that happens we as fans will pay that price in everything we do to support our teams.

 

[Red Dawn]

In a battle between Billionaires and Millionaires, I stand with the little guy.

As a former Pro hockey player who worked pre and post union, I couldn't care less what fans may or may not think. They sure as Hell didn't care when I needed a summer job to make ends meet, and they are not losing any sleep over my knee, shoulder and back problems.

How many PIM's did you have in your career?

 

[Seandonic]

I really like college football and don't care if pro football (NFL) is gone for a good long while.

I am not naive enough to think that this or any amount of work stoppages will make for any real heartfelt changes. However, change and a re-evaluation of their position in this society and life is exactly what these greedy elitist need. They play and manage a silly game that is nothing but a pleasant distraction for most of us and our "normal" lives.

More than not the players are physically gifted, over privileged, over payed block heads who make selfish life decisions, can barely speak the English language, and don't truly appreciate their good fortune. Among many other glaring personal flaws. IMHO!

Most of the owners are greed personified. They live in a bubble of wealth. They may have ascended to their monetary heights legitimately (doubt it) but money corrupts as does power and they got both in spades. Nothing shows this more than them not opening their books. Yeah, they shouldn't have to do that but it would go a long way in changing public perceptions. But who cares about the lowly disheveled public right?

I get into the fun of it and enjoy all the aspects of the game but to say I care if I never got to see NFL football again is like telling me I would never get to eat pizza again. I'd miss it every now and then and reminisce about it often but it wouldn't affect my everyday life in any substantial way what so ever. Some other pleasant distraction will come along and many already exist. Peace.

P.S. I think that during the work stoppage every "highly" paid player should work (and by work I mean actually work) at a charity organization.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I see a lot of bad logic and assumptions in this thread.

Here are some facts:

Your median salary for the NFL (The point where half the league makes more and half makes less) is about $860,00.

(source: USA today 2009 median team salary)

While a nice chunk of change, this is the lowest number of the major professional sports (Hockey, Baseball, Basketball, Soccer)

On that $860,000, there is a 39.6% tax rate.

That means that half of the NFL takes home $520,000 or less.

The average career of a NFL player is 3.5 years, which is also the shortest of the major professional sports

The term "Millionaires fighting with Billionaires" just isn't accurate. There is a good chunk of NFL players who will never see a million dollars for their entire career but will have messed up their bodies for life.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Here is why the Players walked away

The NFLPA, in turn, listed reasons why no new CBA was reached, saying the NFL:

Demanded a multibillion-dollar giveback and refused to provide any legitimate financial information to justify it.

Wanted to turn the clock back on player compensation by four years, moving them back to where they were in 2007.

Offered no proposal for long-term share of revenues.

Demanded 100% of all revenues that went above unrealistically low projections for the first four years.

Refused to meet the players on significant changes to in-season, off-season or pre-season health and safety rules.

Kept on the table its "hypocritical" demand for an 18-game season, despite its public claims to be working toward improving the heath and safety of players.

Wanted cutbacks in workers' compensation benefits for injured players.

Sought to limit rookie compensation long after they become veterans — into players' fourth and fifth years.

Instead we are left wondering if there will be a real season. The move by the union to decertify helps the possibility that there will be a season. If the NFL had locked out the players as a union, then the season would have been in much more jeopardy. But decertifying means it is more likely that we do have a 2011 season, although courts will decide that. The league can now file an injunction to prevent a lockout -- which the NFL plans to do -- and that would make the league implement a set of rules to guide the 2011 season, which the players would play under if they were to their liking as the anti-trust suit wound its way through the courts.

 

[gamebird98]

I think I will go into work Monday morning and demand to see the books of the owner of the company I work for. I will tell him I want half of what he makes and if he doesn't give it to me, I am going to sue him!

................................................ you know what I will be doing Tuesday morning?................................................................
YUP!!!! LOOKING FOR A NEW JOB!

If you don't like what your job has to offer you, go find another one.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

the thing I don't get about Smith is that he keeps preaching about writing a check for $500 million and being business partners. Unless i'm mistaken, when did the workforce become partners with the owners? I was kind of on the players side before but, I think it was Joeschmo I had agreed with, Smith wanted to take this courts from day 1. I don't see how the players can win. There is no precedence for Doty to rule in their favor, even though he always does.

 

[40yearfan]

Here is why the Players walked awayThe NFLPA, in turn, listed reasons why no new CBA was reached, saying the NFL:

Demanded a multibillion-dollar giveback and refused to provide any legitimate financial information to justify it.

Wanted to turn the clock back on player compensation by four years, moving them back to where they were in 2007.

Offered no proposal for long-term share of revenues.

Demanded 100% of all revenues that went above unrealistically low projections for the first four years.

Refused to meet the players on significant changes to in-season, off-season or pre-season health and safety rules.

Kept on the table its "hypocritical" demand for an 18-game season, despite its public claims to be working toward improving the heath and safety of players.

Wanted cutbacks in workers' compensation benefits for injured players.

Sought to limit rookie compensation long after they become veterans — into players' fourth and fifth years.

Summary of NFL proposal to NFLPA

1. We more than split the economic difference between us, increasing our proposed cap for 2011 significantly and accepting the Union’s proposed cap number for 2014 ($161 million per club).

2. An entry level compensation system based on the Union’s “rookie cap” proposal, rather than the wage scale proposed by the clubs. Under the NFL proposal, players drafted in rounds 2-7 would be paid the same or more than they are paid today. Savings from the first round would be reallocated to veteran players and benefits.

3. A guarantee of up to $1 million of a player’s salary for the contract year after his injury – the first time that the clubs have offered a standard multi-year injury guarantee.

4. Immediate implementation of changes to promote player health and safety by:

◦Reducing the off-season program by five weeks, reducing OTAs from 14 to 10, and limiting on-field practice time and contact;
◦Limiting full-contact practices in the preseason and regular season; and
◦Increasing number of days off for players.
5. Commit that any change to an 18-game season will be made only by agreement and that the 2011 and 2012 seasons will be played under the current 16-game format.

6. Owner funding of $82 million in 2011-12 to support additional benefits to former players, which would increase retirement benefits for more than 2000 former players by nearly 60 percent.

7. Offer current players the opportunity to remain in the player medical plan for life.

8. Third party arbitration for appeals in the drug and steroid programs.

9. Improvements in the Mackey plan, disability plan, and degree completion bonus program.

10. A per-club cash minimum spend of 90 percent of the salary cap over three seasons.

Somebody is stretching the truth.

 

[Buckybird]

I see a lot of bad logic and assumptions in this thread.

Here are some facts:

Your median salary for the NFL (The point where half the league makes more and half makes less) is about $860,00.

(source: USA today 2009 median team salary)

While a nice chunk of change, this is the lowest number of the major professional sports (Hockey, Baseball, Basketball, Soccer)

On that $860,000, there is a 39.6% tax rate.

That means that half of the NFL takes home $520,000 or less.

The average career of a NFL player is 3.5 years, which is also the shortest of the major professional sports

The term "Millionaires fighting with Billionaires" just isn't accurate. There is a good chunk of NFL players who will never see a million dollars for their entire career but will have messed up their bodies for life.

Choices, Chris...choices.

The NFL player might make less per year than other sports but they also play 20 games vs. 82 in the NBA, 162 vs MLB & 82 vs the NHL. Is the NFL a car wreck every play? You bet...Choices!!!

1/2 the NFL takes home $520,000 or less...poor babies!!! Choices...find another career because they've known the risks of playing football since the days of boyhood. Former players from the '70's & before played the game because they loved the sport & wouldn't give up the careers for anything, todays athlete is "all about me" & the cash.

Don't have 5 cars, 3 houses & 15 people posses. Prepare for life after the NFL by living a moderate lifestyle & be prepared to use the education that you received at a discount or free because of your special skills. Choices...

If the NFLPA indeed turned down what the owners offered them yesterday, shame on them!!! Both sides are greedy & don't give a damn about the fans as they say.

 

[juza76]

Choices, Chris...choices.

The NFL player might make less per year than other sports but they also play 20 games vs. 82 in the NBA, 162 vs MLB & 82 vs the NHL. Is the NFL a car wreck every play? You bet...Choices!!!

1/2 the NFL takes home $520,000 or less...poor babies!!! Choices...find another career because they've known the risks of playing football since the days of boyhood. Former players from the '70's & before played the game because they loved the sport & wouldn't give up the careers for anything, todays athlete is "all about me" & the cash.

Don't have 5 cars, 3 houses & 15 people posses. Prepare for life after the NFL by living a moderate lifestyle & be prepared to use the education that you received at a discount or free because of your special skills. Choices...

If the NFLPA indeed turned down what the owners offered them yesterday, shame on them!!! Both sides are greedy & don't give a damn about the fans as they say.

true words..any clue on what the judge will decide..looks the nflpa were really confident to decertificate and let this judge take decision on it..de maurice smith said??football is in good hands now''

 

[Buckybird]

true words..any clue on what the judge will decide..looks the nflpa are really confident to decertificate and let this judge take decision on it..de maurice smith said??football is in good hands now''

Only the lawyers for both sides can meet now that the union is done from my understanding, no owners or players allowed. Unless they can come to some agreement outside of court both sides will sue each other & this will end up in courts for months & months putting the season in jeopardy.

 

[WildBB]

Let the players become the bosses of their own league.

Rent out college stadiums.

Have a contract with the season ticket holders.

And charge a reasonable (cheap) amount for tickets and concessions.

Get their own deal from the media.

Don't hold communities ransom for basically free built stadiums.

Disclose all financials for public record.

 

[WildBB]

I see a lot of bad logic and assumptions in this thread.

Here are some facts:

Your median salary for the NFL (The point where half the league makes more and half makes less) is about $860,00.

(source: USA today 2009 median team salary)

While a nice chunk of change, this is the lowest number of the major professional sports (Hockey, Baseball, Basketball, Soccer)

On that $860,000, there is a 39.6% tax rate.

That means that half of the NFL takes home $520,000 or less.

The average career of a NFL player is 3.5 years, which is also the shortest of the major professional sports

The term "Millionaires fighting with Billionaires" just isn't accurate. There is a good chunk of NFL players who will never see a million dollars for their entire career but will have messed up their bodies for life.

THANK YOU!

 

[Dan H]

I see a lot of bad logic and assumptions in this thread.

Here are some facts:

Your median salary for the NFL (The point where half the league makes more and half makes less) is about $860,00.

(source: USA today 2009 median team salary)

While a nice chunk of change, this is the lowest number of the major professional sports (Hockey, Baseball, Basketball, Soccer)

On that $860,000, there is a 39.6% tax rate.

That means that half of the NFL takes home $520,000 or less.

The average career of a NFL player is 3.5 years, which is also the shortest of the major professional sports

The term "Millionaires fighting with Billionaires" just isn't accurate. There is a good chunk of NFL players who will never see a million dollars for their entire career but will have messed up their bodies for life.

The minimum salary is what, 350K? For a 3.5 year average career even a minimum player should be pulling in 1.05M. State and other taxes add up too, so really they're only pulling in say 500K over that time, maybe less depending on where they're playing.

A friend of a friend played three years in the NBA. He was very smart; he banked all of his game checks and lived off of the per diem. Basically worked out and practiced for three years as a twelfth man and walked away with a million bucks in the bank after interest. Of course, he also went to school for four years and got a diploma.

Getting college degree seems all the more important to me given these statistics.

 

[Shane]

I see a lot of bad logic and assumptions in this thread.

Here are some facts:

Your median salary for the NFL (The point where half the league makes more and half makes less) is about $860,00.

(source: USA today 2009 median team salary)

While a nice chunk of change, this is the lowest number of the major professional sports (Hockey, Baseball, Basketball, Soccer)

On that $860,000, there is a 39.6% tax rate.

That means that half of the NFL takes home $520,000 or less.

The average career of a NFL player is 3.5 years, which is also the shortest of the major professional sports

The term "Millionaires fighting with Billionaires" just isn't accurate. There is a good chunk of NFL players who will never see a million dollars for their entire career but will have messed up their bodies for life.

So what you are saying is that the lowly NFL player in 3.5 years makes what would take the average person making 50K a year almost 37 years to make.

Yea we should feel really sorry for those guys.

Also do your #'s include signing bonuses? That these guys have received as well? Or is that just salary?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I am saying that the richest of all sports pays the least with the shortest career. It isn't so simplistic as "Yeah they should be happy with what they get"

This response is exactly what the NFL owners are hoping for. Here is a great article about it on ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=6208732

what will the fans do with this power? Will they take the old, tired positions and blame the players, calling them greedy for wanting to be a true business partner? Will they take the "shut up and play" position we've seen so many times during previous labor impasses across American sports? Saying players should be grateful to be paid millions for playing a kid's game is, at its worst, an unsophisticated position, for professional sports is not a kid's game. Kid's games don't charge $75 to park, or $1,200 per ticket to attend the championship game. Kid's games don't generate $9 billion in revenue.


It is this expectation of unsophistication that at least in part emboldens owners to force labor unrest onto the public, for they believe the fans' wrath will always be levied worse against the players. And they have often been correct in this assumption.

The truth is far more complicated and fans have an opportunity to use their power both by learning complicated financial issues and changing how they view the relationship between the player and the owners.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Also do your #'s include signing bonuses? That these guys have received as well? Or is that just salary?

That is average of the wage for the team, including signing bonuses averaged out for that year (most players don't get signing bonuses)

 

[Buckybird]

So what you are saying is that the lowly NFL player in 3.5 years makes what would take the average person making 50K a year almost 37 years to make.

Yea we should feel really sorry for those guys.

Also do your #'s include signing bonuses? That these guys have received as well? Or is that just salary?

Amen Shane. Screw the players...I live in a small 3 bedroom house, make 50 grand/yr & yet many of these clowns live their short careers living like kings with 5 cars, 3 mortgage payments & 15 people posse's.