Nice Try Owners.

[moklerman]

Bottom line is the owner's announced an agreement, the opening of camps and the start of the season....

and here lies the problem......

BEFORE THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT! Yes, the Owner's agreed to it, and that's good. But it all fell apart when they announced the "start" of the new season and put a deadline on things.

If they had inserted a couple of "IF'S and WHEN'S" in their statement, this media blowup and fans joyful expectations would have been tempered.

And how about the NFLPA refusal to comment any further today out of respect for The Kraft Family? Not so sure everybody believes that one.

But they did exactly that! Watch the press conference. Each of them offered plenty of "if's".

 

[Mitch]

Bottom line is the owner's announced an agreement, the opening of camps and the start of the season....

and here lies the problem......

BEFORE THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT! Yes, the Owner's agreed to it, and that's good. But it all fell apart when they announced the "start" of the new season and put a deadline on things.

If they had inserted a couple of "IF'S and WHEN'S" in their statement, this media blowup and fans joyful expectations would have been tempered.

And how about the NFLPA refusal to comment any further today out of respect for The Kraft Family? Not so sure everybody believes that one.

I see your points, slan.

The question I have...the players elected not to vote on the agreements on Wednesday...and they are the ones who are decertified....had there still been a union in place, what we could have seen is a joint celebratory announcement of a deal with Goodell, the owners and the NFLPA. But still, as we talk, there is no NFLPA...that's one of the main problems.

The owners are tightly knit group...the players right now are all over the map, and some of them haven't been apprised of the developments as well as they could have been. I still do not have any idea why breaking the union worked on the players' behalf and that's my main issue with D. Smith and the whole process.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Then why have player rep's? At this point, the only reason it seems they've been along for the ride is an excuse to play dress up and act like businessmen. They certainly don't seem to be all on the same page or clearly relaying information to the players.

If they're all going to follow Smith's lead and then each individual is going to have to review the 500 page document themselves, then get rid of the extra baggage. There still isn't even a clear story whether or not they actually have the document to review.

Perhaps the owners move was calculated but it was a move that allowed enough time for the season to proceed relatively normally. The players are the one's playing games and focusing on "respect", posturing and everything else.

Look at Smith's 5 minute press conference yesterday. Was it really an important thing for him to take the time to come out and snipe at the NFL Network's coverage and about statements that the desertification was bogus from a couple of owners from months ago?

The guy's focusing on his grudge at the 11th hour instead of getting the deal done. The owners were sitting on their hands all day waiting for Smith is what it looked like to me. They were ready to vote early in the day and expected to be gone but stayed as long as it took to come to an agreement.

If they were just coming up with their own version of the CBA to spring on the players in an attempt to make them look bad in the media they could have had that ready to go early in the day. If it was just a media ploy then they wouldn't have waited all day to get out of there because they would have known that the players would never accept it anyway and that it would all go to the court of public opinion and linger. There was no need for them take all day.

I think they really thought they had come to an agreement. Breer even reported that there were cheers that could be heard after the vote was taken. I think these guys were happy and relieved.

Would they stage all of that? I guess anything's possible but I just don't see billionaires taking the time to play such games. Most of these owners never even show up for these things so I'm hesitant to think they'd all be participating in some acted out deception.

The players are just having their fears and paranoia exploited by Smith.

The issue is quite simple, and has nothing to do the vast majority of clauses in the new CBA.

The owners set forward a timeline for ratification, and a mere 72 hours to negotiate health, welfare and disciplinary procedures after approbation.

The player reps believe they have a duty to the membership to closely review the deal before voting to recommend.

(We are talking about a 10B dollar per annum agreement now, and perhaps 20B at the back end.)

Additionally, they believe, rightly, that it is not within the purview of ownership to dictate when to ratify the agreement, and view the threat of returning to 2006 rules regarding health, welfare and disciplinary issues unless they agree to the short window to negotiate these important issues as unreasonable.

It does not seem unreasonable to me, that they dot every "I" and cross every "T".

Nothing of any consequence has been lost to fans at this point, and there is very little reason to believe that the NFL will not be up and running in short order.

 

[moklerman]

But you're still implying that they "only" get 72 hours. They, as in both sides, have been working on this deal for weeks(months?). All they have to do in the timeframe is make sure what they helped put together is still in tact.

It seems like they are acting as if this a contract they have no knowledge of and have to go line by line for 500 pages to see what's there.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

It seems like they are acting as if this a contract they have no knowledge of and have to go line by line for 500 pages to see what's there.

That's pretty much what I heard them say last night.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's pretty much what I heard them say last night.

I'll be honest, i was 100% behind the players this entire time, but they hired Smith to rep them... he repped them and got them a deal he was happy with, now sign the damn paper and get on with it.

 

[TigToad]

This was pretty much said by one of the player's attorneys during an interview yesterday.

Baloney. Numerous player reps have admitted that their side has received the document, but they just haven't had the 'time' to review the details. This is a stall tactic by the players to prove that it took them lots of deliberation and work to recertify, so that they can pull the out and out sham of decertifying again in ten years. Nothing more, nothing less. And it is complete crap.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

But you're still implying that they "only" get 72 hours. They, as in both sides, have been working on this deal for weeks(months?). All they have to do in the timeframe is make sure what they helped put together is still in tact.

It seems like they are acting as if this a contract they have no knowledge of and have to go line by line for 500 pages to see what's there.

Don't confuse the overall negotations on the CBA, which is largely set, with the time frame for ratification.

And, I'm not implying, I'm stating that both the date for ratification and the "72" hour time frame for negotiating the issues mentioned previously were ARBITRARILY set by the owners.

There was no negotiation on these points.

Further: under U.S. Labour Law an employer cannot dictate to employees that they must certify to benefit from the contents of an agreement, or set a time for this outcome.

It's these points, plus the necessary due diligence (reading the proposed CBA signed by the owners) that has caused this tempoary delay.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You can say some profoundly silly things at time.

Except a NFL player was on ESPN last night saying he doesn't care if he misses training camp because it is only a $700 game check.

Mitch is dead on

 

[Shane]

Except a NFL player was on ESPN last night saying he doesn't care if he misses training camp because it is only a $700 game check.

Mitch is dead on

Dont buy that one bit unless the players are stupid. The league loses 200 million in revenue for each pre season week. That is a huge part of the pie they have to split and is part of how they come up with the cap figures. Would be awfully short sighted and dumb. because in the end they will feel it more than 700.00 out of pocket.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Sorry that should say preseason games.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Dont buy that one bit unless the players are stupid. The league loses 200 million in revenue for each pre season week. That is a huge part of the pie they have to split and is part of how they come up with the cap figures. Would be awfully short sighted and dumb. because in the end they will feel it more than 700.00 out of pocket.

the player rep (I think Takeo Spikes) said it is $200 million for the owners, for.me it is $700., I don't care if we miss pre season games

 

[40yearfan]

Except a NFL player was on ESPN last night saying he doesn't care if he misses training camp because it is only a $700 game check.

Mitch is dead on

Dont buy that one bit unless the players are stupid. The league loses 200 million in revenue for each pre season week. That is a huge part of the pie they have to split and is part of how they come up with the cap figures. Would be awfully short sighted and dumb. because in the end they will feel it more than 700.00 out of pocket.

The guy must have an IQ of 10 to not be able to realize this. No wonder these negotiations have been so drawn out.

 

[Shane]

the player rep (I think Takeo Spikes) said it is $200 million for the owners, for.me it is $700., I don't care if we miss pre season games

Takeo is an idiot. It is 200 million to the owners. But just like Schefter and Clayton and all the other guys out there have said that 800 million over 4 weeks of pre season is absolutely money that is used in negotiations and part of how they determine how much the players get. Namely the cap figure.

 

[PDXChris]

Takeo is an idiot. It is 200 million to the owners. But just like Schefter and Clayton and all the other guys out there have said that 800 million over 4 weeks of pre season is absolutely money that is used in negotiations and part of how they determine how much the players get. Namely the cap figure.

Exactly, the players get 48% of that toward their cap number.

 

[oaken1]

a missed pre season means squat....only affects the cap for a single season....very short sighted of anyone to let a one year hardship over rule a decade long deal.

 

[Stout]

Why should the players even have to "brief" the other 1,800 or so players. Isn't the player "reps" supposed to be the collective voice of each teams players?

Bingo.

Why should Americans be allowed a voice when we vote in Representatives and Senators?

You really don't have an understanding how large union CBAs are conducted and voted upon, do you? Virtually no major union CBAs are read by the entirety, or even anywhere close to the majority, of said union's membership. Why? Because they hired people to negotiate for them, and if every Tom, Dick and Harry had to read it, well, it would never ever get done. Unions have reps to negotiate for them, who then return and give them the outline of what the deal is--what they were able to gain, what they had to give up--and the membership then votes upon it.

That's standard. That's how unions negotiate CBAs. Your irrelevant hyperbole means nothing because you miss the entire point on how this process works in, you know, the real world. So, if the players are whinging and whining that they all haven't seen the document, then they look even more uneducated and quite bad.

And yes, I am typing a little irritated, because this has been explained to you in another thread, and you conveniently ignored it.

 

[Shane]

a missed pre season means squat....only affects the cap for a single season....very short sighted of anyone to let a one year hardship over rule a decade long deal.

No matter how you try and disregard it 800 million will never be "squat" especially in these economic times!

 

[Bert]

All I know is we're hearing large amounts of BS coming from both sides. I really dont care who is right and who is wrong, and I dont care who comes out better at the end of all this. Sorry I just dont care. If a player gets 29 million instead of 30 or if an owner makes 15% instead of 14% I wont lose any sleep.

The bottom line is that we're the fans and we pay for ALL of this with either our dollars spent or our time spent watching TV which is where that and the sponsor money comes from. Whatever they do they need to get it done.

If a deal can be made, theres absolutely no reason why it cant be made next week instead of next month. What do these guys have other stuff to do? You'd all be headed to camp by now anyway so quit screwing around, get in a big comfy room together and decide how you're going to divide your millions. I'm tired of the crying, I'm tired of the fingerpointing and the posturing. GET IT DONE

It's just freaking my luck that the year I get my whole DSLR setup complete with my super telephoto lens (SPECIFICALLY purchased for flagstaff and training camp) they wouldn't have camp.

 

[Longcolts]

No matter how you try and disregard it 800 million will never be "squat" especially in these economic times!

Not only that but if they miss the preseason in its entirety I don't see anyway they don't miss at least one or two games of the regular season as well.