Nightengale: D’Backs likely to move to Scottsdale in 5 years

[GatorAZ]

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[82CardsGrad]

Cool!! Perhaps around the Talking Stick area?? Can't imagine another location that offers enough undeveloped land...

 

[Dback Jon]

This would be the single DUMBEST Idea the Dbacks could do.

1) No public transportation. Thousands take light rail to the stadium
2) A big fudge YOU to the west side, and the growing hispanic fan base that buys hundreds of thousands of tickets every year.

The Dbacks belong downtown. If they are so stupid they can't see that, then they need to sell the team.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Would be idiotic and they have zero chance of getting the same sweetheart deal the braves did

 

[Willie D]

Trusting Bob Nightengale on baseball reporting is like relying on Lee Harvey Oswald that JFK won't get shot in the face.

 

[WildBB]

Would be idiotic and they have zero chance of getting the same sweetheart deal the braves did

ZERO Chance.

 

[Willie D]

One simple reason...there is no available land.

Consider:

1. Scottsdale overwhelmingly passed Prop 420, meaning that Jim Lame's $70 million Desert Edge profit grab ain't gonna see the light of day. Where the he** elso would you put this behemoth?

2. Steve Ellman tore down Los Arcos mall to build a hockey rink. But since he failed, Skysong research park has grown up, and I doubt they'd tear that down for baseball.

3. The Yotes have failed as team in part because Glendale lured them to a part of the county that is tough to reach. I live in Scottsdale, and work downtown. To get to a Yotes game, I have to drive home, strip out of a suit & tie, put on some normal clothes, get back in the car and drive *with* the insane 101 NB traffic out to Glendale to make a 7:05 start, get home around 11:00 p.m....and rinse and repeat this stuff 40x a year? You think people from Glendale are gonna repeat that?

4. The damn stadium is more often than not vacant unless there is a 8-aarmed kraken or G.H. Ruth pitching for the other team. The only baseball team that travels well 'round here are the Spring Training Cubbies, who seem to annually fund the Scottsdale PD's "let's arrest drunk people" task force.

 

[overseascardfan]

From what I understand about the new ATL stadium is rather than put in in downtown ATL, management researched what areas most fans were coming from to games and that is where they built it. The area they are looking at is near Salt River Fields but there isn't a lot of land in that area left as someone has already pointed out. They should just throw money into renovating Chase Field as it would be cheaper but the appeal of the deal ATL has Kendrick and management team chasing the dream.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

The deal in Atlanta is that Cobb County gave gobbs of cash to allow the Braves to become a development company with Cobb County carrying all the downside risk

Not much beyond that

 

[82CardsGrad]

To be clear - I also believe the #1 Best option would be to remain in downtown Phoenix. Ideally, the Dbacks, Suns and Coyotes would be able to develop a sporting/retail entertainment center that would attract people on a steady basis and thrive...
But by all accounts, this is a pipe-dream... which seems extremely stupid and short-sighted to me. If I were involved from the city’s perspective, I honestly don’t know how you wouldn’t roll out the red carpet for this idea.
So, from my perspective, if the Dbacks can’t remain downtown, the #2 Best option is Scottsdale...

 

[Willie D]

...The area they are looking at is near Salt River Fields but there isn't a lot of land in that area left as someone has already pointed out. They should just throw money into renovating Chase Field...

Again, where in Scottsdale do you put the thing?

Scottsdale proper is shaped like a Q-Tip. You can't do it north of Shea due to the City's development overlay. Heck, code enforcement won't even let you plant a ficus tree. That leaves Old Town or South Scottsdale. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Ken Kendrick probably thumbs his nose at such a pedestrian idea. Sal River Fields is on Indian land. If you recall, Billy Bowtie once pitched an idea in the late 90s, fully funded by the tribe, to put the Cards' stadium by the casino on McKellips. The league told him to shut up.

The last free land was the 40 acres on the NW corner of Scottsdale Rd. & Lincoln. And that's not in Scottsdale either--try Paradise Valley. Anyway, that land is slated to be a Ritz-Carlton resort development.

BOB/Chase Field was built in 1996 or so. The development bonds from the MCSA have probably matured and been paid off. Reach a deal with MCSA to issue a new set of bonds for the downtown PHX renovation. You could sell it as a revenue-neutral muni offering.

 

[AZCB34]

If you recall, Billy Bowtie once pitched an idea in the late 90s, fully funded by the tribe, to put the Cards' stadium by the casino on McKellips. The league told him to shut up.

Things are significantly different now with regards to gaming so I think there would be little resistance from the league to building on tribal land near Talking Stick. Given what the Dbacks really want out of this development, however, makes me think a deal will be hard to come by.

Kind of feels like the only choice is to upgrade Chase but the Dbacks will probably be too stubborn about it.

 

[BC867]

Living in NE Phoenix, either near Talking Stick or downtown Phoenix is convenient for me.

But, I would prefer to see them stay in downtown Phoenix. There are plenty of parking lots, no more expensive than Talking Stick. And the light rail. And the restaurants.

I'm for renovating Chase Field. It is a good functional enclosed/open stadium.

 

[Willie D]

Things are significantly different now with regards to gaming so I think there would be little resistance from the league to building on tribal land near Talking Stick. Given what the Dbacks really want out of this development, however, makes me think a deal will be hard to come by.

Kind of feels like the only choice is to upgrade Chase but the Dbacks will probably be too stubborn about it.

I was thinking more of the concept of having a pro sports team on an Indian reservation, because that reservation is a sovereign entity with similar but different legal and corporate norms. It would be the same as creating a franchise in Mexico or England or anywhere.

Financially, it makes sense to renovate Chase Field. It's not the prettiest place in the world, and heaven knows I remember several of my corporate finance clients getting damn near BK themselves in that whole construction project. But the bonds to finance that thing have mostly been paid off. The Cardinals are about halfway through the MCSA's development bonds on The Big Toaster, meaning they are paying more and more principal into their sinking fund every day. The county will be done with this in the next 8 years.

The only alternative I see is to raze all of the McDowell car dealerships between Scottsdale Rd. & 68th St. West of that, tadaaahh...you're back in Phoenix. Not to mention you'll have to condemn a whole street block of houses just t make room. I don't think Phoenix wants a giant ball field right next to Papago Park. And with the recent Scottsdale City Council election, which sent pro-development incumbent David Smith packing in favor of Solange Whitehead, ya won't get much support from them.

Scottsdale has been down this road before to crappy effect. Remember When Mayor Drinkwater wanted to turn Scottsdale Rd. into a pedi mall with the Galleria Boy that was a suck-cess.

 

[Willie D]

Oh, and BTW, both TSA and CF are a stone's throw from Mrs. White's Golden Rule Cafe. Ya can't discount that!

 

[Shaggy]

Why dont the dbacks buy a lot of the old land/buildings south of chase field, tear them all down, and build there entertainment section. Plenty of old run down places all around the stadium. Get the suns involved to. Renovate chase and stay put.

 

[Dback Jon]

I was thinking more of the concept of having a pro sports team on an Indian reservation, because that reservation is a sovereign entity with similar but different legal and corporate norms. It would be the same as creating a franchise in Mexico or England or anywhere.

Financially, it makes sense to renovate Chase Field. It's not the prettiest place in the world, and heaven knows I remember several of my corporate finance clients getting damn near BK themselves in that whole construction project. But the bonds to finance that thing have mostly been paid off. The Cardinals are about halfway through the MCSA's development bonds on The Big Toaster, meaning they are paying more and more principal into their sinking fund every day. The county will be done with this in the next 8 years.

The only alternative I see is to raze all of the McDowell car dealerships between Scottsdale Rd. & 68th St. West of that, tadaaahh...you're back in Phoenix. Not to mention you'll have to condemn a whole street block of houses just t make room. I don't think Phoenix wants a giant ball field right next to Papago Park. And with the recent Scottsdale City Council election, which sent pro-development incumbent David Smith packing in favor of Solange Whitehead, ya won't get much support from them.

Scottsdale has been down this road before to crappy effect. Remember When Mayor Drinkwater wanted to turn Scottsdale Rd. into a pedi mall with the Galleria Boy that was a suck-cess.

Most of those car dealership are gone already and being replaced with Condos or Apartments

 

[overseascardfan]

Again, where in Scottsdale do you put the thing?

Scottsdale proper is shaped like a Q-Tip. You can't do it north of Shea due to the City's development overlay. Heck, code enforcement won't even let you plant a ficus tree. That leaves Old Town or South Scottsdale. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Ken Kendrick probably thumbs his nose at such a pedestrian idea. Sal River Fields is on Indian land. If you recall, Billy Bowtie once pitched an idea in the late 90s, fully funded by the tribe, to put the Cards' stadium by the casino on McKellips. The league told him to shut up.

The last free land was the 40 acres on the NW corner of Scottsdale Rd. & Lincoln. And that's not in Scottsdale either--try Paradise Valley. Anyway, that land is slated to be a Ritz-Carlton resort development.

BOB/Chase Field was built in 1996 or so. The development bonds from the MCSA have probably matured and been paid off. Reach a deal with MCSA to issue a new set of bonds for the downtown PHX renovation. You could sell it as a revenue-neutral muni offering.

I haven't been around the area between Chaparral & Via de Ventura east of the 101 (between Scottsdale CC & Talking Stick Resort but is that still just fields? Also north of OdySea Aquarium and south of 90th St / Via Linda? It's tribal land so land ownership would be complex. They may find that staying in Central Phoenix is most convenient option unless Kendrick or someone else thinks relocating the team to another state is more lucrative.

 

[Willie D]

I haven't been around the area between Chaparral & Via de Ventura east of the 101 (between Scottsdale CC & Talking Stick Resort but is that still just fields? Also north of OdySea Aquarium and south of 90th St / Via Linda? It's tribal land so land ownership would be complex. They may find that staying in Central Phoenix is most convenient option unless Kendrick or someone else thinks relocating the team to another state is more lucrative.

The land you referenced is still farmed. Once you get north of the canal near McDonald Drive there is some useable land. So that will trigger (I think) three problems:

1. Exercising eminent domain on foreign soil. The Pima Res. folks are proud of their land. That translates into an inflated price.
2. If the Dbs ask the tribe to build a stadium, you are looking at a negotiation between the County, the DB, The Pima and Bureau of Indian Affairs. That sounds like a novel straight out of A Fistful of Dollars.
3. The DBs sound like they want someone to build them a crib and manage it. For which they pay rent. All the old canards Glendale encountered (parking revenue, yada yada yada) will come up. Don't forget, the Pima are the people who built freeway overpasses way back in the 1980s and waited for the State to come calling when the 101 was under development. They ain't dumb.

As to moving to another state, I just can't think of a landing spot. Too many teams have regional affiliations going back many years. That's a tough nut to crack.

Remember when Jim Balsille wanted to buy the Yotes for cash from the NHL and ship the team to Hamilton, ON? The Toronto Douchebag Leafs nixed that deal faster than you can say Jackie Robinson.

It's a fun question to ponder. Maybe Ken will give us a stake in the 'chise.

 

[BC867]

I was thinking more of the concept of having a pro sports team on an Indian reservation, because that reservation is a sovereign entity with similar but different legal and corporate norms. It would be the same as creating a franchise in Mexico or England or anywhere.

Just in terms of that thought . . . or Canada?

 

[Willie D]

Just in terms of that thought . . . or Canada?

Canada is a bit different from a Native Nation. The U.S. BIA doesn't have to mediate any business deals. Plus MLB is already familiar with Canuckistan via the Jays and the Expos. And Toronto has one more WS win than Arizona does!

How about shipping the DBs off to my favorite city: Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

It's pretty simple - 100 year ground lease with the tribe. And the stadium would be done in like 5 years since there's no red tape out there.

Of course Talking Stick Resort lost power for like 3 months when they encountered a stiff breeze so the DBacks may want to look into the transformer situation