Nobody wants Gallery

[Metcalf Rules]

Didn't the Cards use to have a kicker named Gallery? Was it Nick Gallery?

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by Pariah
When was the last time we drafted a QB in round one (or two, for that matter)?

That would have been Jake in round 2

 

[kerouac9]

Everytime I read one of those draft diaries by Gallery on ESPN.com, I think that I really wouldn't mind having Gallery in red and white. I'd even be happy. But that's all.

I'd like to be ecstatic about a draft pick for the first time in a long time. I'd like to think that we got the best player in the draft, a real game-changer. We haven't really had that since we drafted Wadsworth, and injuries marred his promising career. Gallery might be the most "can't miss" pick in this draft, but he's not going to be able to take the team on his shoulders and win a game for you like Fitzgerald (who I don't really want anyway), Mike or Roy Williams, Sean Taylor, Steven Jackson, Kevin Jones, or even Vince Wilfork will be able to.

The Cards don't need another "cog in the machine". They need a sparkplug, on either side of the ball. A catalyst. That's not what Gallery will be. There's no one to run off-tackle behind him on the roster as it is.

 

[vikesfan]

I kind of doubt Wilfork would be a difference maker.

Gallery might be the smartest pick if you want to see Josh throwing long bombs to Boldin and B Johnson. His selection might mean the CARDS can stick with Josh next year as QB and not have to waste a draft pick on one.

O Line makes a pass and run game go. If QBs don't have time and are getting hit and injured you are going to lose more then you win.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by vikesfan
I kind of doubt Wilfork would be a difference maker.

Gallery might be the smartest pick if you want to see Josh throwing long bombs to Boldin and B Johnson. His selection might mean the CARDS can stick with Josh next year as QB and not have to waste a draft pick on one.

O Line makes a pass and run game go. If QBs don't have time and are getting hit and injured you are going to lose more then you win.

You don't watch the Cards. My theory has been that the O-line (including Clement) has underperformed not for lack of talent but because of inferior coaching and scheming. The offense showed no committment to the run or passing game, and didn't seem to put a lot of responsibility in the O-line. No one there really seemed to care (except most notably L.J. and Kendall) what was going on, and no one on the coaching staff held them accountable. I think that this group should get one more season to prove themselves under a competent coaching staff before blowing the whole thing up and investing more money on the offensive line.

Ted Washington was a difference-maker for the Pats. In 2003 with Washington, the Pats were 4th in the league in rush D. Without Washington in 2002, the Pats were 28th. It might not be a stretch to say that Washington was the difference-maker for the Pats that brought them back to the Super Bowl. Wilfork can be as good as Washington against the run, and much better than him against he pass. I think that Wilfork can be a bigger difference-maker for the Cards than Gallery.

The Cards already have a borderline-elite LT in L.J. Shelton. They don't need to spend more money on another one. Get a runningback whom O.C.'s are afraid of, and you'll see the passing game and offensive line play improve.

 

[vikesfan]

Originally posted by kerouac9
You don't watch the Cards. My theory has been that the O-line (including Clement) has underperformed not for lack of talent but because of inferior coaching and scheming. The offense showed no committment to the run or passing game, and didn't seem to put a lot of responsibility in the O-line. No one there really seemed to care (except most notably L.J. and Kendall) what was going on, and no one on the coaching staff held them accountable. I think that this group should get one more season to prove themselves under a competent coaching staff before blowing the whole thing up and investing more money on the offensive line.

Ted Washington was a difference-maker for the Pats. In 2003 with Washington, the Pats were 4th in the league in rush D. Without Washington in 2002, the Pats were 28th. It might not be a stretch to say that Washington was the difference-maker for the Pats that brought them back to the Super Bowl. Wilfork can be as good as Washington against the run, and much better than him against he pass. I think that Wilfork can be a bigger difference-maker for the Cards than Gallery.

The Cards already have a borderline-elite LT in L.J. Shelton. They don't need to spend more money on another one. Get a runningback whom O.C.'s are afraid of, and you'll see the passing game and offensive line play improve.

I am not so much worried about
Shelton but Clement. The Vikes had 2 pro-bowl OTs in MIN.

Uh iirc Washington missed a lot of the season in NE this year.

Now if you think coaching will improve the oline fine. But not all Cards fans think that a lot think talent is needed not just coaching.

I agree with you a primetime RB would make a difference. But if one of your OTs sucks he won't make a difference.

I think a run plugging DT can be had elsewhere and a run plugger does 1 job 40 or 50 percent of the game the OT does 2 jobs 100% of the game.

The O Line is the engine of the car not matter how pretty the rest of the car is it won't move if the engine sucks. I and some other Cards fans think the engine might need several new parts you seem to think a fine tuning of the existing parts will do the trick. We'll see. I would seriously be thinking about an OT/OG round 2 or 3 if one is not grabbed at 1

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by vikesfan
I am not so much worried about
Shelton but Clement. The Vikes had 2 pro-bowl OTs in MIN.

Uh iirc Washington missed a lot of the season in NE this year.

Now if you think coaching will improve the oline fine. But not all Cards fans think that a lot think talent is needed not just coaching.

I agree with you a primetime RB would make a difference. But if one of your OTs sucks he won't make a difference.

I think a run plugging DT can be had elsewhere and a run plugger does 1 job 40 or 50 percent of the game the OT does 2 jobs 100% of the game.

The O Line is the engine of the car not matter how pretty the rest of the car is it won't move if the engine sucks. I and some other Cards fans think the engine might need several new parts you seem to think a fine tuning of the existing parts will do the trick. We'll see. I would seriously be thinking about an OT/OG round 2 or 3 if one is not grabbed at 1

Ted Washington played in 10 games, not including the playoffs, for the Pats according to NFL.com. If you watched him in the Super Bowl, he single-handedly took Stephen Davis out of the game.

You absolutely do not need elite OTs to have an elite running game. Ladanian Tomlinson ran for 1600 yards last season behind possibly the worst offensive line in the NFL. Ricky Williams had 1300 yards behind a very poor offensive line. Tiki Barber had 1200 yards behind a God-awful O-line in New York. Fred Taylor had 1500 yards with a bunch of nobodies blocking for him and a rookie passer and no good wide-outs. Tell me again how important elite talent is on the offensive line. What's important is having a confident group playing together. Mac's regime failed to do that for three years. Green Bay doesn't have an overly-talented front line, but they play together and take responsiblity, and they're one of the best lines in football.

I agree that a run-plugger can be had later (Saivii, Sopoaga), but Wilfork is more than that. He's a run-stopper and can also be a 10-plus sack player. He's so good. He'd have a much larger impact on this team than Gallery would. I agree that if we just want an NT, we can get him in the second or maybe the third, but if you want a dynamic playmaker on the interior of the Defensive Line, Wilfork's your man.

 

[vikesfan]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Ted Washington played in 10 games, not including the playoffs, for the Pats according to NFL.com. If you watched him in the Super Bowl, he single-handedly took Stephen Davis out of the game.

You absolutely do not need elite OTs to have an elite running game. Ladanian Tomlinson ran for 1600 yards last season behind possibly the worst offensive line in the NFL. Ricky Williams had 1300 yards behind a very poor offensive line. Tiki Barber had 1200 yards behind a God-awful O-line in New York. Fred Taylor had 1500 yards with a bunch of nobodies blocking for him and a rookie passer and no good wide-outs. Tell me again how important elite talent is on the offensive line. What's important is having a confident group playing together. Mac's regime failed to do that for three years. Green Bay doesn't have an overly-talented front line, but they play together and take responsiblity, and they're one of the best lines in football.

I agree that a run-plugger can be had later (Saivii, Sopoaga), but Wilfork is more than that. He's a run-stopper and can also be a 10-plus sack player. He's so good. He'd have a much larger impact on this team than Gallery would. I agree that if we just want an NT, we can get him in the second or maybe the third, but if you want a dynamic playmaker on the interior of the Defensive Line, Wilfork's your man.

Maybe you don't need a great oline to get yardage if you have a great rb (JAX has a good OT). But you do if you want to pass the ball.
And if you don't have a great RB (Cards) then great o-line can help.
Dude if you can guarantee me Wilfork will get 10 sacks this year I would draft him at 3 in 3 seconds flat. That would be a difference maker at DT.

 

[joeshmo]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Ted Washington played in 10 games, not including the playoffs, for the Pats according to NFL.com. If you watched him in the Super Bowl, he single-handedly took Stephen Davis out of the game.

You absolutely do not need elite OTs to have an elite running game. Ladanian Tomlinson ran for 1600 yards last season behind possibly the worst offensive line in the NFL. Ricky Williams had 1300 yards behind a very poor offensive line. Tiki Barber had 1200 yards behind a God-awful O-line in New York. Fred Taylor had 1500 yards with a bunch of nobodies blocking for him and a rookie passer and no good wide-outs. Tell me again how important elite talent is on the offensive line. What's important is having a confident group playing together. Mac's regime failed to do that for three years. Green Bay doesn't have an overly-talented front line, but they play together and take responsiblity, and they're one of the best lines in football.

I agree that a run-plugger can be had later (Saivii, Sopoaga), but Wilfork is more than that. He's a run-stopper and can also be a 10-plus sack player. He's so good. He'd have a much larger impact on this team than Gallery would. I agree that if we just want an NT, we can get him in the second or maybe the third, but if you want a dynamic playmaker on the interior of the Defensive Line, Wilfork's your man.

Good points.

I dont know why Wlfork gets this, ted washington clone label. Is he a big 2 gap DT,yes, but he has 1 gap DT skills to go along with it.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by joeshmo
Good points.

I dont know why Wlfork gets this, ted washington clone label. Is he a big 2 gap DT,yes, but he has 1 gap DT skills to go along with it.

I think that Wilfork is going to be different than Ted Washington, but I think that Washington is a good example of what a dominant 2-gap DT can do for a defense. Wilfork might be more in line with someone like Sam Adams maybe. The Sporting News is comparing him to Casey Hampton, who would be a stud in an 4-3 defense. I think that as Wilfork matures, he'll be more in line of a straight 2-Gap DT, and be most effective for about 65% of the defensive snaps.

One of the reasons that I'm not totally hot-to-trot for Wilfork at #3 overall is that I only really need a guy out there for 60% of the defensive snaps (like the Packers did with Gilbert Brown or the Patsies with Washington), and that doesn't represent good value at #3 overall.

Originally posted by vikesfan
Maybe you don't need a great oline to get yardage if you have a great rb (JAX has a good OT). But you do if you want to pass the ball.

It's pretty funny how your story keeps changing when you're proven wrong. Where are all the stud O-lineman on the Colts' O-line? Tarik Glenn was a former #1 pick, but that was in 1997. And they were the #1 passing offense in the NFL. Brad Hopkins is the only first-rounder on the Titans' O-line (#3 in the NFL). The New England Patriots' eighth-ranked passing offense had two undrafted free agents and two fifth-round picks starting up front. Again, please make sure you know what you're talking about before you start posting on things that are totally incorrect. Coherence and chemistry, as well as good coaching and a good system, are far more important to offensive line play than high draft picks. But don't let the facts get in the way of your posing.

 

[pete]

If both Fitz and Williams are gone at #3, the Cards should draft Sean Taylor or trade down and get a WR like Roy Williams. You don't see safeties like this guy very often and the Cards need a S more than they do an OT.

I'm all for passing on Manning and Big Ben. Both should be solid NFL QBs but will consume massive cap space for years to come. I don't think the Cards should waste that much cap space on a QB when I don't see either one having that much more upside than McCown. McCown has all the tools, he just needs experience. Experience that he should have gotten all last season but the Cards had a coach who thought Jeff Blake and Emmitt Smith could save his job.