Not Enough Firepower!

[goldseraph]

After unfortunately witnessing the Suns-Magic game tonight, I realize that we need to trade for more offensive firepower or rebuild. The fact is, this is not a defensive team, we do not have the personnel to shut down ANYONE. So why are we getting so few fast breaks and putting the ball in the hands of mediocre scorers?

I was cringing the 2nd half of this game as for a few minute stretch we had Dragic, Dudley, and Frye taking all of our shots, mostly 3 pointers. Then we have Amundson turning the ball over and missing multiple putbacks and dunks. Meanwhile JRich looks older and fatter than ever, no more than an average shooting guard. So again, if we can't stop anyone we need to outscore them, but Nash, Barbs and Amare are not enough, especially when they we are giving so many minutes to the bench.

To sum it up, Orlando did not have Vince Carter or Rashard Lewis this game, and Howard sat much of the game in foul trouble, and we still lost by 22. A testament to Orlando's depth and overall superiority, but also to me a chilling reality check that we are too small, dont fast break enough, dont play defense, and have a very mediocre supporting cast. I know it's early and the 4-0 start was nice, but the reality is we need to make changes or just blow it up already, this team is going nowhere long term as comprised.

 

[AfroSuns]

I doubt more firepower would get us past a good defensive team. They need to make a couple of stops, they have enough firepower.
I would say the back to back favors Orlando a little, they may be missing carter and Vince and we Barbosa, but i doubt they played an up tempo game with the Pistons last night.

 

[Covert Rain]

More offensive firepower?? Wow, I seriously have to disagree. We have enough offensive firepower. What we lack is size and defense. The reason they were able to stop our offense is because for the most part they stayed at home on our shooters.

The Suns are a jump shooting team. If you can't score on the inside when jump shots don't go and your playing a good defensive team...that is not good. The only way to counter is to have an inside game which the Suns are lacking right now.

What trade could you possibly make that would bring a big man that would require a double team to free up your shooters? What big man like that is going to be available without trading half your offensive firepower? Hell if we wanted more balance we should have kept Shaq.

 

[LV-Suns]

I think this team is just fine offensively. The bench lineup was seriously struggling to score without LB on the floor tonight. We have had success with that lineup along with Amare instead Frye in the past couple games. I am more than happy if we could trade J-Rich for anything that resembles any kind of defensive presence.

 

[Chaplin]

After unfortunately witnessing the Suns-Magic game tonight, I realize that we need to trade for more offensive firepower or rebuild. The fact is, this is not a defensive team, we do not have the personnel to shut down ANYONE. So why are we getting so few fast breaks and putting the ball in the hands of mediocre scorers?

I was cringing the 2nd half of this game as for a few minute stretch we had Dragic, Dudley, and Frye taking all of our shots, mostly 3 pointers. Then we have Amundson turning the ball over and missing multiple putbacks and dunks. Meanwhile JRich looks older and fatter than ever, no more than an average shooting guard. So again, if we can't stop anyone we need to outscore them, but Nash, Barbs and Amare are not enough, especially when they we are giving so many minutes to the bench.

To sum it up, Orlando did not have Vince Carter or Rashard Lewis this game, and Howard sat much of the game in foul trouble, and we still lost by 22. A testament to Orlando's depth and overall superiority, but also to me a chilling reality check that we are too small, dont fast break enough, dont play defense, and have a very mediocre supporting cast. I know it's early and the 4-0 start was nice, but the reality is we need to make changes or just blow it up already, this team is going nowhere long term as comprised.

This board is generally a depressing place to be, but geez. This is over-exaggerating more than normal.

 

[cly2tw]

It's not about absolute firepower on offense, it's about variety of offensive plays. This team lives and dies with Nash and Nash will get crushed against good defense and/or good PG offense. We might feed comfortable inbetween with the weak teams and squeak intio the playoffs, but without a change of philosophy, this team will remain mediocre.

 

[azsportsfan01]

You do realize this was the second game of a back-to-back right? With a team like ours whose best players are older you should get used to this happening. We will put up a good fight in the first game then rest most of our guys the second game. Add to the fact we are without our most explosive player right now. There is no need to get down on this team because of this game, which is our first loss of the season and only the 5th game of the year might I add. Just calm down.

 

[goldseraph]

I'm not jumping on this just because of tonights loss, it just got me thinking about our roster. We are like a 'D' grade defensively, so if we hope to even make the playoffs or win one round, we would have to have a kick ass offense. I am just not sure that is the case. Playing any of the elite teams in the league, I don't see our offense working that well, and when the bench has to come in it gets ugly... Dragic can not run an offense well, Dudley is flat out embarassing sometimes, Lopez and Collins are stiffs, etc.
I know there's no easy answers but trading J-Rich for anything we can get is a start.

 

[mojorizen7]

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[Covert Rain]

You do realize this was the second game of a back-to-back right?

You do realize this was also a back to back game for Orlando as well? They came off a tough loss to Detroit last night which was a very physical game. Not to mention this was their 3rd game in 4 nights. I don't care how old or young you are, that many games close together, the Orlando Magic should have been exhausted. Now factor in they were without 2 of their biggest guns in Vince and Lewis.

 

[Sunburn]

I'm not jumping on this just because of tonights loss, it just got me thinking about our roster. We are like a 'D' grade defensively, so if we hope to even make the playoffs or win one round, we would have to have a kick ass offense. I am just not sure that is the case. Playing any of the elite teams in the league, I don't see our offense working that well, and when the bench has to come in it gets ugly... Dragic can not run an offense well, Dudley is flat out embarassing sometimes, Lopez and Collins are stiffs, etc.
I know there's no easy answers but trading J-Rich for anything we can get is a start.

I find Dudley to be one of, if not the most, heady player on the team. Embarassing does not describe him. Please relax. Other than tonight, the team has been a pleasant surprise so far. Let's give 'em a little time and see what they can do.

 

[TJ]

.....and we were without Barbosa, who we could have used last night.

Dudley a stiff?? He's one of the hardest working players on the bench

Collins?? Do you see the intelligence and physical presence this guy plays with? I only hope the team keeps him around.

Man you are taking this loss WAY too hard. We won 4 straight, which is something we never did last season. I'm already encouraged that we have a better team now than we did last season. I'm not going to jump off a bridge because we lost to the reigning Eastern Conference Champs.

 

[goldseraph]

Nobody jumping off a bridge here, my expectations for this season were for the Suns to finish 8th-10th in the west, and that hasn't changed. Dudley looks OK at times but honestly he is not a starter on any team in the NBA and probably never will be. Average role player off the bench is pretty much his ceiling. All I said is that I don't think our supporting cast is very good, or that it really suits the philosophy of the team (score a ton, play no defense, fast break) because Dudley, Dragic, Collins, Amundson, Lopez etc aren't very good scorers.

 

[TJ]

Nobody jumping off a bridge here, my expectations for this season were for the Suns to finish 8th-10th in the west, and that hasn't changed. Dudley looks OK at times but honestly he is not a starter on any team in the NBA and probably never will be. Average role player off the bench is pretty much his ceiling. All I said is that I don't think our supporting cast is very good, or that it really suits the philosophy of the team (score a ton, play no defense, fast break) because Dudley, Dragic, Collins, Amundson, Lopez etc aren't very good scorers.

At least we have the talent to go ten deep, unlike the D'antoni SSOS teams where he would burnout his players by playing them all 35+ minutes per game. I think your expectations for these bench players are way too high. It does not matter whether or not they can be starters, but how they match up with the 2nd units on other teams. Not very many teams have 5 bench players who can start in the NBA. Personally, I like the dynamic off the bench. Barbosa is a lights out scorer who can add energy to any game. Amundson plays with a fire and passion unlike anyone in the NBA. Dragic is coming into his own and appears to be learning from Steve Nash. Dudley is another scrapper who fights for everything. Collins is probably a stop gap who will either be cut or benched when Lopez is back, but he is a more intelligent more physical player than Lopez. I do agree that Lopez is terrible and a wasted 1st round pick last season. In addition, I have a lot of faith in Earl Clark once they start utilizing him more. He has shown flashes of talent in his limited role.

 

[dodie53]

trade Jrich to GS for Capt Jack.

 

[Gaddabout]

Barbosa's 16-20 points would have changed that game last night.

 

[nashman]

Lets see all of our starters except Amare played 20 minutes or less than half the game and they shot 53% from 3 point land and beat our bench by 22.... I am not that disappointed. Our starters were clearly out of gas and horrible nights so Gentry sat them and let the bench guys play, I might add also that the Magic are very deep and had many of there starters on the floor all night still jacking up 3's late trying to run up the score on our BENCH real classy by Van Gundy! Not that big of a deal losing that game against a team that was in the finals with our starters on the bench for more than half the game!

 

[Mainstreet]

Barbosa's 16-20 points would have changed that game last night.

It is also not lost that Hill and JRich put up zero points against Orlando. This should be a rarity.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

The Suns have more than enough firepower, they lack size and a defensive presence.

It easy to complain when watching your team play Orlando. They are easily one of the deepest/most talented teams in recent NBA hitory.

 

[goldseraph]

Lets see all of our starters except Amare played 20 minutes or less than half the game and they shot 53% from 3 point land and beat our bench by 22.... I am not that disappointed. Our starters were clearly out of gas and horrible nights so Gentry sat them and let the bench guys play, I might add also that the Magic are very deep and had many of there starters on the floor all night still jacking up 3's late trying to run up the score on our BENCH real classy by Van Gundy! Not that big of a deal losing that game against a team that was in the finals with our starters on the bench for more than half the game!

Wow that is a load of excuses! Why do I keep hearing these?

1 - Barbosa didnt play. Neither did Vince Carter or Rashard Lewis, and Dwight sat much of the game.

2 - We were tired/on a back to back. So were the Magic.

3 - This thread isn't really about the Magic game, it is about our roster and how it is mismatched imo. Either we are a high octane scoring team or we aren't, and I think we have too many mediocre scorers and a thin bench to make up for our complete lack of defense.

 

[nashman]

^Its not excuses how many minutes did our starters play? Do you think our bench is capable of beating the defendind EC Champions?

 

[Covert Rain]

^Its not excuses how many minutes did our starters play? Do you think our bench is capable of beating the defendind EC Champions?

I think his point is valid. You were playing a team that was just as exhausted, if not more, playing also on a back to back with it's 3rd game in 4 nights. How tired our starters were is not an excuse. Orlando's starters were just as exhausted but played through it and routed us in the process.

 

[goldseraph]

^Its not excuses how many minutes did our starters play? Do you think our bench is capable of beating the defendind EC Champions?

The starters didnt play that much because we were being beat down already by the third quarter and Gentry just gave up and let the scrubs play. Low starter minutes is not WHY we lost, its a product of already having lost by the 3rd q.

 

[nashman]

Call it whatever you want its one loss against a damn good team with our starters not playing much! By the way it was still their starters beating our bench guys for MUCH of the game!

 

[Chaplin]

Wow that is a load of excuses! Why do I keep hearing these?

1 - Barbosa didnt play. Neither did Vince Carter or Rashard Lewis, and Dwight sat much of the game.

2 - We were tired/on a back to back. So were the Magic.

3 - This thread isn't really about the Magic game, it is about our roster and how it is mismatched imo. Either we are a high octane scoring team or we aren't, and I think we have too many mediocre scorers and a thin bench to make up for our complete lack of defense.

Thin bench? What a joke. Did you watch the Celtics game? Every day there is more and more evidence contrary to what you're saying.

Posting about how worthless a roster is and then that "worthless" roster beating probably the best team in the NBA at this time doesn't exactly support your argument.