3rdside
Hall of Famer
the yanks lost with the best possble team they could put together - how does it feel to be third best?!
not to rub it in but...
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boisesuns
Standing Tall And Traded
1+1+1+1+1 will never equal one. It takes a team to win it all. We looked like we had a pretty good team going, but not enough to get the job done.
Maybe when we talk about the NBA title we shouldn't say "World champs"
I think the winner of the finals should be team USA in the year it's suppposed to happen. Could be hard with the trades and all that, but it would make the finals even more important on Fiba and olympic years.
Maybe when we talk about the NBA title we shouldn't say "World champs"
I think the winner of the finals should be team USA in the year it's suppposed to happen. Could be hard with the trades and all that, but it would make the finals even more important on Fiba and olympic years.
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed below are just that. If you want to take issue with anything expressed, please attacked the point, not the person. Nothing personal, no hating, just pointing out the bare facts.
Interesting points BoiseSuns.
1. Americans (esp. professional athletes) have long been known for excessive hubris and a lack of modesty.
Whatever the sport, it is always the American athletes that are blustering and threatening to create a new record.
Maurice Greene kept proclaiming for yrs that he was going to run the 100m dash in under 9.75 seconds only to fail miserably everytime he tried. In the meantime, a Jamaican, Asafa Powell ran the 100m in 9.77 seconds, without making noise, on 3 separate occasions to make the world record his own.
No doubt, Americans are among the very best athletes and sportsmen in the world, but their problem is the failure to acknowledge talent outside the fishbowl they live in that is the US.
From tennis to basketball, the rest of the world has caught up and its time this country woke up to this reality.
-Stop calling the intra national clash of baseball teams the 'World Series'. Its just a bunch of neighborhood kids clashing...you just got beat in a world baseball championship called the World Baseball Classic that actually had international teams competing.
(not having players X and Y can't be excuses, because thats a malady of this sports system where money and revenue comes before national pride)
- We've separated ourselves so much from the rest of the world that we call what is known as the 'king of sports' in the rest of the world, by a different name. soccer? no one outside america calls it soccer... its football - plain and simple.
The 'soccer' world cup comes around only once every 4 years, and yet USA cannot turn in that direction and pay attention? yet, year after year, the hype surrounding 'march madness' and the so called 'world series' is unimaginable. You really cannot blame the US soccer team for their poor performance in WC matches...they don't have a fan following at all!
-Soccer is played in a similar setup to American sports with different clubs in Europe and South America. But when it comes world cup time, you will find all the very best players suited up to represent their country. Of course, there is the occasional clash of egos between players but it doesn't stop anyone from showing to play for their national team.
-stop calling that joke of a game 'poker' a sport. more importantly, stop calling it the 'world series of poker'
-learn to use the term "national champions", the way the rest of the world does.
- bottom line: there are seven continents, with 6 of them actively inhabitted by humans. any tournament not involving these other continents, be it 'ultimate frisbee', 'strongest man', 'basketball', 'baseball' is nothing more than a national championship.
To quote Pau Gasol:
What do you think when Americans say the world champion is the team that wins the NBA title?
Pau Gasol: "It's their away of thinking, even the American themselves know they are a little arrogant."
2. It momentarily occurred to me that the reigning NBA champions should represent the country at world championships and the Olympics. But then look at the contending teams on the NBA - Suns, Spurs, Mavs, Heat, Pistons.
The Suns are a pot pourri of international players and are nothing w/o Steve Nash - a Canadian.
Spurs - Virgin Islands (yeah US) and Argentina
Mavs - Franchise player is German. Where would they be w/o diggler?!
That leaves only the Heat and Pistons and off the top of my head I can't think of a strong foreign presence on their teams. They are probably the only championship caliber teams that can represent the US.
Needless to mention, there is going to be a huge amount of fuss when LeBron gets left off the national team. Also, Gilbert Arenas will start peeing all over capital city for being slighted - once again.
So sending the NBA champions to rep the US won't work out. I still feel this team is more of an All-Star team, desperately in need of role players.
For those of you who watched the FIBA games, did you watch how often Bron got called for walks? I felt happy that finally someone was blowing the whistle on that horrible habit of his. What I don't get is, why wasn't he called for traveling at the HS level? Is there star treatment there too? How is it that a player of his stature commits the most basic mistake in basketball, time and time again??
Interesting points BoiseSuns.
1. Americans (esp. professional athletes) have long been known for excessive hubris and a lack of modesty.
Whatever the sport, it is always the American athletes that are blustering and threatening to create a new record.
Maurice Greene kept proclaiming for yrs that he was going to run the 100m dash in under 9.75 seconds only to fail miserably everytime he tried. In the meantime, a Jamaican, Asafa Powell ran the 100m in 9.77 seconds, without making noise, on 3 separate occasions to make the world record his own.
No doubt, Americans are among the very best athletes and sportsmen in the world, but their problem is the failure to acknowledge talent outside the fishbowl they live in that is the US.
From tennis to basketball, the rest of the world has caught up and its time this country woke up to this reality.
-Stop calling the intra national clash of baseball teams the 'World Series'. Its just a bunch of neighborhood kids clashing...you just got beat in a world baseball championship called the World Baseball Classic that actually had international teams competing.
(not having players X and Y can't be excuses, because thats a malady of this sports system where money and revenue comes before national pride)
- We've separated ourselves so much from the rest of the world that we call what is known as the 'king of sports' in the rest of the world, by a different name. soccer? no one outside america calls it soccer... its football - plain and simple.
The 'soccer' world cup comes around only once every 4 years, and yet USA cannot turn in that direction and pay attention? yet, year after year, the hype surrounding 'march madness' and the so called 'world series' is unimaginable. You really cannot blame the US soccer team for their poor performance in WC matches...they don't have a fan following at all!
-Soccer is played in a similar setup to American sports with different clubs in Europe and South America. But when it comes world cup time, you will find all the very best players suited up to represent their country. Of course, there is the occasional clash of egos between players but it doesn't stop anyone from showing to play for their national team.
-stop calling that joke of a game 'poker' a sport. more importantly, stop calling it the 'world series of poker'
-learn to use the term "national champions", the way the rest of the world does.
- bottom line: there are seven continents, with 6 of them actively inhabitted by humans. any tournament not involving these other continents, be it 'ultimate frisbee', 'strongest man', 'basketball', 'baseball' is nothing more than a national championship.
To quote Pau Gasol:
What do you think when Americans say the world champion is the team that wins the NBA title?
Pau Gasol: "It's their away of thinking, even the American themselves know they are a little arrogant."
2. It momentarily occurred to me that the reigning NBA champions should represent the country at world championships and the Olympics. But then look at the contending teams on the NBA - Suns, Spurs, Mavs, Heat, Pistons.
The Suns are a pot pourri of international players and are nothing w/o Steve Nash - a Canadian.
Spurs - Virgin Islands (yeah US) and Argentina
Mavs - Franchise player is German. Where would they be w/o diggler?!
That leaves only the Heat and Pistons and off the top of my head I can't think of a strong foreign presence on their teams. They are probably the only championship caliber teams that can represent the US.
Needless to mention, there is going to be a huge amount of fuss when LeBron gets left off the national team. Also, Gilbert Arenas will start peeing all over capital city for being slighted - once again.
So sending the NBA champions to rep the US won't work out. I still feel this team is more of an All-Star team, desperately in need of role players.
For those of you who watched the FIBA games, did you watch how often Bron got called for walks? I felt happy that finally someone was blowing the whistle on that horrible habit of his. What I don't get is, why wasn't he called for traveling at the HS level? Is there star treatment there too? How is it that a player of his stature commits the most basic mistake in basketball, time and time again??
Nash said:
Some strong points, but a little overdone. I actually agree with the fact that arrogance in american sports is probably at an all-time high, but I dont agree that the US should necessarily conform to the rules/regulations/terminology of the rest of the world. Who cares if it is called soccer everywhere else? Calling it football here would lead to confusion.
The game has evolved in two different ways. In the US there is a big emphasis placed on individual talents and strong "power" players, whereas in europe the game is much more team oriented and the rules reflect that. The americans play a different game all together and I don't think it is fair to really judge them based on some losses that have come our way in the last few years. I am actually pretty pleased with this team and I think that they will grow as time goes on. The whole idea of a three year commitment is to get some continuity. This was the first year. Lets give them some time and I am willing to bet that they will learn to play under these rules also.
ASUCHRIS
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Nash said:
The reason they call it the World Series in baseball is because the best players in the World compete in a league that happens to be Major League Baseball. If you really want to make an argument using the WBC as evidence, what is your argument? That Cuba and Japan have the best players in the world?
In addition, making these overarching statements about basketball in general based on these international tournaments is a little much. FIBA basketball is a different beast than the NBA, explained well by George in this post: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=77082
Some of the international rules are just a joke, especially the 3 point line. A 20 foot three point line changes the game significantly, and the ability to have a big man just camp in the lane is very different as well. Can we win these international tournaments with our best teams? I would say yes, but the fact is, the last few teams have been poorly constructed. This team as well doesn't have the best possible squad we could put together. You don't think Kobe, Ray Allen or Michael Redd could have been the difference between winning or losing?
No doubt that talent-wise, an avg NBA player is head and shoulders above the quality of the avg euro league player
No doubt that constructing a better team could have won the FIBA championship.
The issue I was trying to bring out was the lack of respect that American sportsmen have for the rest of the world and that the general system of celebrating individual talent isn't going to help US teams in any sport.
No doubt that constructing a better team could have won the FIBA championship.
The issue I was trying to bring out was the lack of respect that American sportsmen have for the rest of the world and that the general system of celebrating individual talent isn't going to help US teams in any sport.
George O'Brien
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Unfortunately, the NBA players do not play FIBA basketball, they play NBA basketball: different size court, different ball, different rules, different referreing, etc. So while there are numerous international players doing well in the NBA, there is a huge number that have failed.
As I said in another thread, the NBA rules give a huge advantage to super athletes. If nothing else, the continued outlawing of the pure zone means that when a guy beats his man off the dribble (which is easier without hand checking), he's got a good chance of getting to the basket. Under FIBA rules, there is ALWAYS someone in the way.
NBA coaches (including Cotton) are always preaching "attack the basket". When an NBA coach says he wants a guy to be more aggressive, he means attack the basket and not "settle for jump shots". Read the hoopshype profile for Jumaine James, "should drive the basket more". http://www.hoopshype.com/players/jumaine_jones.htm
The NBA rules are what they are. Adding Marcus Banks and extending Leandro Barbosa acknowledges the need to be able to attack the basket, even on a team that is more international than most. Boris Diaw did not become a major offensive threat until he began to attack the basket. It is important to be able to play NBA style as well as international style if you are going to win in the NBA.
Still, the Suns do have a style better adapted to international play. One of the reasons that Marion has performed so well on the USA teams is that he is used to playing off the ball. Carmelo, LeBron, Wade, JJ, etc. are not used to playing off the ball. It was like starting over.
Many fans don't really understand how useful it is to have guys who are comfortable playing off the ball like Marion, Bell, Diaw, KT, and Barbosa. The constant critizism of Marion is that "he can't make his own shot" and Bell is downgraded because he doesn't try to beat his guy off the dribble.
As I said in another thread, the NBA rules give a huge advantage to super athletes. If nothing else, the continued outlawing of the pure zone means that when a guy beats his man off the dribble (which is easier without hand checking), he's got a good chance of getting to the basket. Under FIBA rules, there is ALWAYS someone in the way.
NBA coaches (including Cotton) are always preaching "attack the basket". When an NBA coach says he wants a guy to be more aggressive, he means attack the basket and not "settle for jump shots". Read the hoopshype profile for Jumaine James, "should drive the basket more". http://www.hoopshype.com/players/jumaine_jones.htm
The NBA rules are what they are. Adding Marcus Banks and extending Leandro Barbosa acknowledges the need to be able to attack the basket, even on a team that is more international than most. Boris Diaw did not become a major offensive threat until he began to attack the basket. It is important to be able to play NBA style as well as international style if you are going to win in the NBA.
Still, the Suns do have a style better adapted to international play. One of the reasons that Marion has performed so well on the USA teams is that he is used to playing off the ball. Carmelo, LeBron, Wade, JJ, etc. are not used to playing off the ball. It was like starting over.
Many fans don't really understand how useful it is to have guys who are comfortable playing off the ball like Marion, Bell, Diaw, KT, and Barbosa. The constant critizism of Marion is that "he can't make his own shot" and Bell is downgraded because he doesn't try to beat his guy off the dribble.
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.Nash said:
Chaz
observationist
the3rdside said:the yanks lost with the best possble team they could put together - how does it feel to be third best?!
It is a young team. Average age 24 years.
It was also a team put together two months ago.
International basketball is getting much better. Congratulations to Spain and Greece.
I think for the US it was a good learning experience considering most of these guys will probably be back on the team next summer and for the olympics.
This World Championship team is good, much more thoughtfully constructed then previous years. However, it is not out best team. In many ways it is the JV team with an avg age of 24. Many of the other great US players opted not to participate. With leftover US players, you could easily put together a team something like this:
Kidd, Billups
Allen, Redd
Kobe, Rashard Lewis
KG, David West, Haslem
Duncan, Camby
Its not telent or even style that is hindering the US basketball. It is coaching the last couple years between Larry Brown and Coach K, and I think it is time spent together as a team.
Kidd, Billups
Allen, Redd
Kobe, Rashard Lewis
KG, David West, Haslem
Duncan, Camby
Its not telent or even style that is hindering the US basketball. It is coaching the last couple years between Larry Brown and Coach K, and I think it is time spent together as a team.
coyote, agree to most of your post.
Not to nitpick, but hasn't the World Series been so called since 1900, when it was more of a US only league?
I reiterate, talent-wise NBA, MLB are the best overall. The difficulty in forming 1 team to rep the country is what I am driving at.
As for football, you're right. I was referring to what popular culture knows it as in this land, as opposed to every other country. (like you said, everyone outside calls it football, not soccer.)
Not to nitpick, but hasn't the World Series been so called since 1900, when it was more of a US only league?
I reiterate, talent-wise NBA, MLB are the best overall. The difficulty in forming 1 team to rep the country is what I am driving at.
As for football, you're right. I was referring to what popular culture knows it as in this land, as opposed to every other country. (like you said, everyone outside calls it football, not soccer.)
yep, I keep forgetting that Dirk has traveling issues too. I've got so used to seeing LeBron do it, then following it through freeze-frame/slowmo to cross check, that I forget other travelers like Dirk. But I can't get over the non-calls Bron gets away with.
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fordronken
Registered User
Haven't you guys seen sports movies? Of course we got beaten by Greece. That's why we're gonna play them again for the gold medal in the Olympics and then win. And then there's gonna be cheesy music from the 80s.
I was responding to coyote's point that it was called World Series because MLB has the best talent in the world, with players from over 50 countries.Tank said:
right, so why even call it World series at that point? don't you think its a tad vain?
Nash said:
No! Not at all. The US was really the only country playing the sport, so whichever team won the WS in the early days was indeed the best team in the world.
I think you are too hung up on the vanity thing. Do I wish US Athletes were more competitive and wanted to dominate everyone like the 92 Dream Team did? Yes. Is it a lot harder to do these days? Yes. Can it still be done? No problem. I think with time, proper player selection and coaching (as well as FIBA changing some of its wonky rules) the US can return to routing everyone.
US players don't have enough experience in FIBA games to win it all easily.
But I guess if you keep the actual roster for a few years, USA will rule once again.
Half of the current spanish roster was junior WC in 1999 ( Pau Gasol, Reyes, Navarro, Jose Manuel Calderon, Benna Rodriguez, Carlos Cabezas).
Greece and argentina also play together for year.
And What about NBA wonky rules?
But I guess if you keep the actual roster for a few years, USA will rule once again.
Half of the current spanish roster was junior WC in 1999 ( Pau Gasol, Reyes, Navarro, Jose Manuel Calderon, Benna Rodriguez, Carlos Cabezas).
Greece and argentina also play together for year.
And What about NBA wonky rules?
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Hugh D'Man
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I think the Harlem Globetrotters should represent us in international competition....
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