Now what? TMac doesn't even name Phoenix!

[Yuma]

TMAc is quoted on the teams he will play for. None are Phoenix. On top of that, he wants to play where there is a good big man like Yao Ming. Kinda counts Phoenix out.

Also, watching the game on TNT the other night, Barkley said utimatly Kobe is reupping with the Lakers. He is going to opt out, but in the end he will get a bigger salary from the Lakers, and will stay put.

So, like I have been saying earlier on, no TMac, No Kobe, how do the Suns improve? Please don't say Mehmet Okur!! You guys now I am down on Jake, but even I can see Jake is better than Okur. Jake would put up Okur like numbers or better in the Eastern Conference. Although we do need depth, and Okur would give us a center off the bench, if we don't overpay for him.

I don't see anyone out there who really makes the Suns an interesting team. Nash would be an improvement at the point, but he would hardly get people to buy season tickets. He would be a great teacher to Barbosa. That way Barbosa could learn how to correctly push the ball and dish.

I guess overall, if the Suns stay relativly put with who they have now, and if they could jettison Eisley, I would be happy with that. I mean Amare improved a lot in his half season he played this last year. He could be on the verge of really becoming a top tier guy. JJ needs less minutes and a little more confidence. We need Zarko to cut Marion's minutes, too. Maybe just a healthy season playing this year is what we need the most. All these crazy trades, etc., being proposed, why not just let the guys mature into a good team?

 

[elindholm]

If the Suns are going to sit on their free agent money, there's no need at all to jettison Eisley. He'd be much easier to unload next summer, especially if he could stay healthy for a year.

 

[Joe Mama]

Yuma, I'll be disappointed if the Phoenix Suns break the bank to sign Okur this summer. Still, he should help this team. I believe that you are going way, way overboard by saying that Okur is worse than Little Jake. Defensively and on the boards they are probably about equal, but offensively Okur is much, much better.

Joe Mama

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yuma, I'll be disappointed if the Phoenix Suns break the bank to sign Okur this summer. Still, he should help this team. I believe that you are going way, way overboard by saying that Okur is worse than Little Jake. Defensively and on the boards they are probably about equal, but offensively Okur is much, much better.

Joe Mama

I'm with you Joe. It seems to me he would be just another in a long list of overpriced big stiff center type free agents--you know John Konkac (sp?) types.

I also have a sinking feeling we would really regret trading for McGrady. He seems to be a headcase, he has injury issues, and his team performed very poorly for having a "super star" on the roster.

I used to think aquiring McGrady would be preferred over Kobe, but now I think the opposite. Kobe's a headcase, but a marvelous unstoppable talent. The only neg with Kobe is the rape case.

And thats a big one, granted.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Man, there have been a bunch of those big, over-priced, FA, center over the years.

Jon Konkac, Luc Longley, Ike Austin, etc. I'm sure we could come up with about 10 more.

 

[Chaplin]

and his team performed very poorly for having a "super star" on the roster.

Come on. Have you even seen that team? Do you know any of the players on it besides Gooden, Howard, Tmac and maybe Giricek? That team was TERRIBLE, even with Tracy McGrady. That team was a disaster that one superstar who was consistently triple-teamed couldn't keep afloat himself. And that's not to mention the terrible coaching and management of the team this year.

That said, I've always thought signing Kobe would be the preferred choice between the two. But I was completely open about TMac, because he's just not that far away from being the kind of player that Kobe is. Now, I don't believe he'll actually get there, but he is a superstar, regardless of how much he couldn't carry his team this season. After all, he WAS the main focal point of pretty much everything in every single game this past season, and yet while being double- and triple-teamed, he STILL led the league in scoring.

I can understand not liking his attitude, I don't like it either, but there's not much ammunition to use if you try to rationalize WHY we won't go after him by complaining that his team didn't do well this past season.

 

[Bada0Bing]

I like T-Mac, but he does seem injury prone. When you're spending 14MM+ per year for a player, I don't want him missing 16 games a year due to injury and "personal reasons". His team had a rough year, but they only won like 2 of the 16 games that he missed. That team just sucked.

I don't think Kobe is leaving. I think Jerry Buss will do anything to keep that from happening. Not bringing back Phil, not extending Shaq, whatever it takes. Kobe will be a Laker for ever.

I hope the Suns don't throw a bunch of $$ at Okur. Anything more than the mid-level is just too much. I don't think he's that good. He found a nice niche with Detroit, but I don't think he's a good fit for the Suns. I'm sick of having to trade good players just to purge bad contracts from the roster.

 

[George O'Brien]

I like T-Mac, but he does seem injury prone. When you're spending 14MM+ per year for a player, I don't want him missing 16 games a year due to injury and "personal reasons". His team had a rough year, but they only won like 2 of the 16 games that he missed. That team just sucked.

I don't think Kobe is leaving. I think Jerry Buss will do anything to keep that from happening. Not bringing back Phil, not extending Shaq, whatever it takes. Kobe will be a Laker for ever.

I hope the Suns don't throw a bunch of $$ at Okur. Anything more than the mid-level is just too much. I don't think he's that good. He found a nice niche with Detroit, but I don't think he's a good fit for the Suns. I'm sick of having to trade good players just to purge bad contracts from the roster.

I have not seen anything in the playoffs that contradicts the HoopsHype description of Okur:

Very
good body frame for a player coming from Europe... Effective mid-range
shooter... Has range up to three point land and some low post moves...
Still struggles on the defensive end... Lacks athleticism.

HoopsHype - Okur

 

[Bada0Bing]

What do you think about his numbers in the IND series?

4 games
11pts
9 rbs
1 ast
0 stl
1 blk


"good body frame for a player coming from Europe... Effective mid-range
shooter... Has range up to three point land and some low post moves...
Still struggles on the defensive end... Lacks athleticism. "

It's great that he has a "good body frame", but what does he do when the games really count?

 

[Bada0Bing]

I have not seen anything in the playoffs that contradicts the HoopsHype description of Okur:

Is this because you haven't been watching the playoffs?

 

[George O'Brien]

I have not seen anything in the playoffs that contradicts the HoopsHype description of Okur:

Is this because you haven't been watching the playoffs?

Not as much as I would like. The thing that stands out is that Okur has averaged only 12.4 minutes per game in the playoffs. In the series against the Pacers, he has averaged 11.8 minutes and has shot only 27.3% from the field. He is billed as a great offensive player, but has averaged 2.8 ppg against Indiana.

Okur has talent and would be an improvement over Voskuh, but not as much as might be imagined.

Mehmet Okur
Detroit Pistons
Position: C
Height: 6-11 Weight: 249
From: Turkey
Player file | Team stats

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 9.6
RPG 5.9
APG 1.0
SPG .51
BPG .89
FG% .463
FT% .775
3P% .375
MPG 22.3

Jake Voskuhl
Phoenix Suns
Position: C
Height: 6-11 Weight: 245
College: Connecticut '00
Player file | Team stats

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 6.6
RPG 5.2
APG .9
SPG .64
BPG .38
FG% .507
FT% .740
3P% .000
MPG 24.3

Jake is a decent backup center and he always plays hard. Best of all, he will make $1.7 million this season. Statistically, Okur has not proven he is twice as good as Voskuhl, much the three or four times Jake's price being kicked around as Okur's price.

 

[Chaplin]

I like T-Mac, but he does seem injury prone. When you're spending 14MM+ per year for a player, I don't want him missing 16 games a year due to injury and "personal reasons". His team had a rough year, but they only won like 2 of the 16 games that he missed. That team just sucked.

Let's be fair. TMac played in 67 games--that's 15 games missed. 9 of those games were at the tail end of the season, when he decided not to play to rest his back, and probably the rest of his body, since he was getting beat up game in and game out onthat team. And it was 9 meaningless games. If Marion or JJ or Amare was hurting by a bum ankle or sore hamstrings or plantar fascitis, wouldn't you want them to rest if the final 2 weeks of the season if it meant nothing? So in essence, TMac missed only 6 games this past season.

Last year, he played in 75 games, the year before 76, the year before that, 77, the year before THAT, 79. Now, I'm not sure what your definition is of "injury prone", but seeing as how he is manhandled because he is the only good player on that team, I'd say he's got a pretty good track record.

Injury prone is Marcus Camby and Vince Carter--not Tracy McGrady.

 

[Chaplin]

Jake is a decent backup center and he always plays hard. Best of all, he will make $1.7 million this season. Statistically, Okur has not proven he is twice as good as Voskuhl, much the three or four times Jake's price being kicked around as Okur's price.

There it is. The absolute end to this arguement. I am right there with you George--signing Mehmet Okur to anything more than 4 million dollars is way too much, IMO. And it's like buying a Sony--you're paying for the name, the fact that he happens to be a "center", even though what he does isn't any better than other players with half his income.

 

[George O'Brien]

There it is. The absolute end to this arguement. I am right there with you George--signing Mehmet Okur to anything more than 4 million dollars is way too much, IMO. And it's like buying a Sony--you're paying for the name, the fact that he happens to be a "center", even though what he does isn't any better than other players with half his income.

I'm overwhelmed.

 

[Joe Mama]

Let's be fair. TMac played in 67 games--that's 15 games missed. 9 of those games were at the tail end of the season, when he decided not to play to rest his back, and probably the rest of his body, since he was getting beat up game in and game out onthat team. And it was 9 meaningless games. If Marion or JJ or Amare was hurting by a bum ankle or sore hamstrings or plantar fascitis, wouldn't you want them to rest if the final 2 weeks of the season if it meant nothing? So in essence, TMac missed only 6 games this past season.

Last year, he played in 75 games, the year before 76, the year before that, 77, the year before THAT, 79. Now, I'm not sure what your definition is of "injury prone", but seeing as how he is manhandled because he is the only good player on that team, I'd say he's got a pretty good track record.

Injury prone is Marcus Camby and Vince Carter--not Tracy McGrady.

Basically I agree with you regarding the criticizing of McGrady for the Magic's poor season. There's no doubt in my mind that he had less talent and quality around him than any other player in the NBA. Regarding his injuries I disagree somewhat however. Reportedly he played injured through much of the season. The same thing happened the season before. His injury problems would scare me to death if they traded for him.

Joe