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azdad1978

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By Scott Bordow, Tribune Columnist
September 12, 2005

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. — The first sign of recovery — whether it be an addict or a football coach — is admitting you have a problem.

Cardinals coach Dennis Green, for whatever reason, refuses to do that with regard to his running game.

After Arizona averaged a paltry 3.2 rushing yards per carry in the preseason, Green shrugged his shoulders and said the Cardinals would just have to throw the ball more.

And after the Cardinals' running backs produced just 20 yards on 18 carries in Sunday's 42-19 loss to the New York Giants, Green was incredulous that we scoundrels in the media thought that might be, you know, a problem.

“You guys always keep talking about the running game. It was one phase of the game,” Green said.

So it was, and it's true the Cardinals stunk in plenty of other phases.

The special teams allowed two touchdowns, one on a punt return, another on a kickoff return.

The defense gave up 121 rushing yards on only 25 carries.

Green, who continues to be a better coach during the week than he is on Sundays, inexplicably went for a two-point conversion early in the third quarter with the Cardinals trailing, 21-19.

Why do coaches insist on going for two when the game is so young? Arizona blew the conversion attempt, and when New York scored minutes later to take a nine-point lead, the Cardinals needed two scores to go ahead.

Finally, it might be nice if Arizona's coaches rediscovered Anquan Boldin. Yes, Larry Fitzgerald is a great talent (he had 13 catches for 155 yards and a touchdown Sunday), but there were long stretches of the game in which Boldin (four receptions, 62 yards) was invisible.

That's no way to treat a former Pro Bowl player — or someone the team just rewarded with a $23 million contract extension.

But the chorus to this same, sad song we've heard for 17 years was Arizona's inability to run the ball.

It didn't matter if J.J. Arrington or Marcel Shipp was in the backfield. Heck, it wouldn't have mattered if Gale Sayers were running the toss sweep.

There was nowhere to run and, for an offensive line that lived down to its preseason showing, nowhere to hide.

The 20 yards on 18 carries averages out to 1.1 yards per carry. The Cardinals couldn't even do that, however, when they had a first-and-goal at the Giants' 1-yard line in the third quarter.

Consecutive runs by Shipp and fullback Obafemi Ayanbadejo went nowhere, and Kurt Warner was forced to throw to Fitzgerald for a touchdown on third down.

“You can't win very many games scoring 19 points,” Green said.

You also aren't going to win many games when you're asking a 34-year-old quarterback to throw the ball 46 times, as Warner did Sunday.

To put that in perspective, Warner has attempted more passes in a game just four times in his career.

One of the reasons Warner became a star in St. Louis was because he had Marshall Faulk behind him. Defenses had to respect the Rams' running game.

By the second quarter Sunday, the Giants were treating Arizona's rushing attack as if it were Rodney Dangerfield.

New York had a green light to rush the passer, and if that continues, Warner will be fortunate if he's not in a body cast by midseason.

“It just puts so much pressure on everybody (when the running game doesn't work),” Warner said. “It puts pressure on the guys up front, it puts pressure on your receivers running down the field on every single snap.

“It's just not the way to win football games in the NFL. You can't sit back there and try to do that snap in and snap out and expect to be successful against good teams.”

We saw that Sunday. If things don't change, we'll see it the rest of the season.

But a problem?

Now, why would you think that?

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=47846
 

duckfallas

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Did anyone else notice when Warner called one of the timeouts that Boldin came up to him afterwards to ask him why? I was wondering why Warner didn't throw to Boldin more. It seemed like he was throwing to Fitz and Johnson most of the game.
 

ajcardfan

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duckfallas said:
Did anyone else notice when Warner called one of the timeouts that Boldin came up to him afterwards to ask him why? I was wondering why Warner didn't throw to Boldin more. It seemed like he was throwing to Fitz and Johnson most of the game.

Well, as someone else pointed out, it seemed like the Giants schemed to make stopping Boldin their priority. Fitz was matched up against the backup more often. What Boldin and Fitz will have to realize is that when the other guy has a big day, it doesn't mean you had a bad one or should get pissed at the QB. They both have been paid big and will be here a long time, they need to worry about winning more than their stats.
 

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Warner seemed to throw into coverage many times looking for BJ. I do agree that Fitz seemed to be the least covered of the 3, but if you are going to throw into coverage, throw it to Quan. He gets more YAC.
 

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If BJ would have caught some of those passes he dropped yesterday could have been very different.
 

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Anquan is by far our most explosive WR. He should have a much bigger impact than he had last night. Our gameplan was flawed in that area. Fitz is a stud, but he is a possesition WR. Quan has made some plays on the ball in the 20 or so games I have seen that make me question why he isn't our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd option on offense. Their top CB was inactive yesterday and we still couldn't find Quan. I was embarrased.

And as I have said before, our line may have it's faults but JJ Arrington looks like a deer in headlights out there. Shipp should be starting, period.
 

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clif said:
If BJ would have caught some of those passes he dropped yesterday could have been very different.

You seem to forget that our offense only scored 12 points yesterday. BJ wasn't going to change that at all.
 

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anytimeuwnt said:
You seem to forget that our offense only scored 12 points yesterday. BJ wasn't going to change that at all.


You seem to forget that when your offense is on the field and moving the ball.... that means there is less time for you defense to give up running plays to the opposition. I don't think it would have meant anything in the overall outcome of the game, but it would have been closer...
 

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anytimeuwnt said:
And as I have said before, our line may have it's faults but JJ Arrington looks like a deer in headlights out there. Shipp should be starting, period.

Shipp didn't do anything out there that JJ couldn't have done. In fact, JJ at least had a run of 12 yards, a run of 5 yards and 22 yards receiving. Shipp had one run of 6 yards and a nice block pickup.

Shipp should not be starting, and neither should JJ until this line gets fixed. Otherwise, they both might be killed before midseason. You can't get the ball from the QB and get hit before you can even take a step. That has to stop. Until then, I'm more in favor of starting Jackson than putting our two GOOD running backs back there in order to get killed. But no, Shipp is not heads and shoulders above JJ...not even close. Neither did much, but at least we got some yards in the passing game out of JJ...and saw what he is capable of on the first run..you know, the one where there was a hole...
 

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D-Dogg said:
Shipp didn't do anything out there that JJ couldn't have done. In fact, JJ at least had a run of 12 yards, a run of 5 yards and 22 yards receiving. Shipp had one run of 6 yards and a nice block pickup.

Shipp should not be starting, and neither should JJ until this line gets fixed. Otherwise, they both might be killed before midseason. You can't get the ball from the QB and get hit before you can even take a step. That has to stop. Until then, I'm more in favor of starting Jackson than putting our two GOOD running backs back there in order to get killed. But no, Shipp is not heads and shoulders above JJ...not even close. Neither did much, but at least we got some yards in the passing game out of JJ...and saw what he is capable of on the first run..you know, the one where there was a hole...

JJ didn't do anything out there that Shipp couldn't have done.
 

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swd1974 said:
JJ didn't do anything out there that Shipp couldn't have done.
And Shipp is better at picking up the blitz. Or just picking up the man that Elton Brown, or our Center (whomever it might be) let waltz past them.
 

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swd1974 said:
JJ didn't do anything out there that Shipp couldn't have done.

Where was Tugboat's 12 yard run? Tug and JJ are very different, both do things the other can't. However, neither has been anything to brag about, so I wish everyone would please **** about the run game until the Oline pulles it's collective head out of it's collective ...

I think that JJ is the better back, some think Shipp will be. Nobody will have a clue until either of them get a chance to run the ball behind a line that hasn't let ALL of their men into the backfield immediately after the snap.

And btw, the team drove down the field for scores with BOTH backs in there. JJ may not be a good pass blocker, but he isn't terrible. And Shipp isn't "good" by any means either...just better than JJ.
 

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Why do coaches insist on going for two when the game is so young? Arizona blew the conversion attempt, and when New York scored minutes later to take a nine-point lead, the Cardinals needed two scores to go ahead.
Hmmm... the Cardinals would still have needed two scores even if they had kicked the extra point and not 2 pt conversion. Either two scores or a touch down with a 2 pt conversion attempt. So, what's the point?
 

WisconsinCard

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az1965 said:
Hmmm... the Cardinals would still have needed two scores even if they had kicked the extra point and not 2 pt conversion. Either two scores or a touch down with a 2 pt conversion attempt. So, what's the point?


Most coaches wont go for 2 until they have to. So I think what he is trying to say is that if they kick the point and then score again later in the game then you go for the 2.
 

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swd1974 said:
JJ didn't do anything out there that Shipp couldn't have done.

And Shipp didn't do anything out there that JJ couldn't have done.


Point? They're both fine backs and would be a fantastic 1-2 punch if we had paid blockers of some kind in front of them.
 

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vince56 said:
And Shipp didn't do anything out there that JJ couldn't have done.


Point? They're both fine backs and would be a fantastic 1-2 punch if we had paid blockers of some kind in front of them.


This post is beyond redemption. Someone posts that Shipp didnt do anything JJ couldnt have done. So I turn it around to say JJ didnt do anything shipp couldnt have done. And you turn it around again.

Whats YOUR point? Im just expressing that the FIRST time someone said Shipp didnt do anything JJ couldnt have done should be tempered with the reverse of that.

Why do you feel you need to make the JJ point twice?
 

ajcardfan

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swd1974 said:
Lets keep it going

Point?

JJ didnt do anything Shipp couldnt have done.

They both didn't do diddly squat.

But, yes, please continue. Arguing about which of our two RBs was the best at doing nothing should be entertaining. :thumbup:
 

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To address some points raised here -

- Biggest issue has to be: "Will the O-line be that much better with Step and Leckey than it was with the rook (Lynch)? I think that's one thing Dennis is counting on.

- Another thing he's alluding to (and perhaps banking on) is matchups. The Giants matched up well against us in physical toughness. The teams in our division are more speed/finesse teams (like we are). I think Dennis thinks these matchups favor us; whereas we were badly mismatched vs. the Giants.

- Whether or not both of the above points are legit or merely denial will be played out over the following weekends.

- I get a kick out of the ongoing JJ vs. Marcel debate. The way our offensive line was failing to open up holes, it didn't matter which guy was in there.

- The reason why Fitz caught so many balls (and Boldin didn't) was a matter of what the defense was giving us. Warner merely looked for the open man, and the Giants invariably gave him Fitzgerald.

- Finally, on one of the two returns for TD's, I was able to discern the number on the jersey of the first guy who whiffed on the tackle. It was #29. (Just as a player like Ayanbadejo will do something to win you one or two games during a season, a guy like Harris - who's been playing this way since the first preseason game - is going to cost us a couple).
 

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JeffGollin said:
- Finally, on one of the two returns for TD's, I was able to discern the number on the jersey of the first guy who whiffed on the tackle. It was #29. (Just as a player like Ayanbadejo will do something to win you one or two games during a season, a guy like Harris - who's been playing this way since the first preseason game - is going to cost us a couple).

Also #23.. he did everything he could to avoid contact. It was something you would see in high school JV... or at a Bull fight :|
 

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clif said:
Also #23.. he did everything he could to avoid contact. It was something you would see in high school JV... or at a Bull fight :|

clif,

#23 stood out for me as well......it's Walls. I suspect that one of the reasons we picked up LaMont Reid again is because Walls looked soooooooo bad on ST's.
 

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D-Dogg said:
Where was Tugboat's 12 yard run? Tug and JJ are very different, both do things the other can't. However, neither has been anything to brag about, so I wish everyone would please **** about the run game until the Oline pulles it's collective head out of it's collective ...

I think that JJ is the better back, some think Shipp will be. Nobody will have a clue until either of them get a chance to run the ball behind a line that hasn't let ALL of their men into the backfield immediately after the snap.

And btw, the team drove down the field for scores with BOTH backs in there. JJ may not be a good pass blocker, but he isn't terrible. And Shipp isn't "good" by any means either...just better than JJ.

Rewatch the game D. Shipp had two very good runs that he actually had to work to get they were about 8 and 6 respectively. They were by far more impressive that Arringtons 12 yards run where he had the one hole about 7 yards wide to run through and tokk it and ran right into the defender downfield.

And Arrington is absolutely terrible in pass blocking. Shipp is at least adequate!
 

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Shane H said:
They were by far more impressive that Arringtons 12 yards run where he had the one hole about 7 yards wide to run through and tokk it and ran right into the defender downfield.

And Arrington is absolutely terrible in pass blocking. Shipp is at least adequate!

Wow shane we agree!

But thats the lines fault that Jones/Arrington ran straight towards the defense in the open field and prostrated himself before the almight defender.
 

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Shane H said:
Rewatch the game D. Shipp had two very good runs that he actually had to work to get they were about 8 and 6 respectively. They were by far more impressive that Arringtons 12 yards run where he had the one hole about 7 yards wide to run through and tokk it and ran right into the defender downfield.

That was ugly! If he just cuts right a little, and turns on the speed, he's got a legitimate chance for 6. One thing for sure, the next time he breaks a tackle will be the first time as a pro.
 

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