Nuggets @ Suns

[JustWinBaby]

If Bledsoe and Knight were so horrible last night, according to Hornacek.

Why did he play them both more than 40 minutes?

Quite frankly I would have rather watched Weems last night and where was Booker.

 

[sunsfan88]

I just wonder what more it has to take for Hornacek to lose his job.

Team sucks, he's lost the team, fans don't like him, players don't know their roles, players don't respect him, players have quit putting forth any effort in games and now players are actually fighting with him.

 

[Absolute Zero]

It's not just fans that are ripping on Bledsoe and his contract.

Hornacek after the game last night said that he's disappointed in the guards and that their not stopping anyone and are getting wrecked. He then proceeded to say something about once certain guys get paid, they quit putting forth much effort. Everyone in the Arizona media that's still following the Suns has taken that as an indirect shot at Bledsoe.

I was responding to the post, 82, Godlovehim, is a serial Bledsoe critic, and someone had to step up and TRY to put a stop to it.

Seriously though, you are right, there is plenty of criticism to go around, in many directions. And Hornacek is right in ripping on the guard play last night.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

You can't speak for all of the fans - I bet most fans like Hornacek, if such a poll were available.

The coach says the same things that the "fans" say - no heart, just gave up, playing poorly, etc. So, you agree with the coach. Would it be better if he said "Rah, rah, we are so close, we just need to play a little bit better"? If you think that Hornacek doesn't understand basketball, you (general population, not a specific person) are clearly nuts. He may need to go, but that doesn't mean that he isn't trying to do his job and get the best out of his team.
If Bled were so great, he would be playing the role that Knight is playing. At least trying to do something positive instead of playing in a malaise for games at a time. Of course, that is everyone's fault but Bled's, right?

 

[sunsfan88]

https://twitter.com/ScottHoward42/status/679895235778842624

...and with that, Merry Christmas Suns fans!

 

[elindholm]

You can't speak for all of the fans - I bet most fans like Hornacek, if such a poll were available.

The coach says the same things that the "fans" say - no heart, just gave up, playing poorly, etc. So, you agree with the coach.

Well, right, but the coach should have insights beyond what the fan base sees. Otherwise, just give everyone in the house clickers and let them make the decisions. The coach needs to be able to say, here's how we need to respond better to this specific situation, or here's a characteristic error that Player X needs to stop making, or here's a way that we can game-plan more specifically for our next opponent. There's no way to know whether Hornacek is doing those things, but it's painfully obvious that they aren't working.

Saying "We have to play harder" isn't "knowing basketball." Sooner or later, the proof is in the results. This reminds me of Terry Porter thinking he was going to transform the Suns' culture by saying the word "defense" 100 times a day. Real change requires things that are a lot more specific and nuanced; to believe otherwise, as either a coach or a fan, is naive.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well, right, but the coach should have insights beyond what the fan base sees. Otherwise, just give everyone in the house clickers and let them make the decisions. The coach needs to be able to say, here's how we need to respond better to this specific situation, or here's a characteristic error that Player X needs to stop making, or here's a way that we can game-plan more specifically for our next opponent. There's no way to know whether Hornacek is doing those things, but it's painfully obvious that they aren't working.

Saying "We have to play harder" isn't "knowing basketball." Sooner or later, the proof is in the results. This reminds me of Terry Porter thinking he was going to transform the Suns' culture by saying the word "defense" 100 times a day. Real change requires things that are a lot more specific and nuanced; to believe otherwise, as either a coach or a fan, is naive.

Can it simply be that Jeff is totally frustrated because he knows in his soul that the team just isn't good enough, or strong enough mentally?? I mean, the guy has tried about as many tactics as a coach can try in order to get something positive happening, and still this team can't rise to the occasion.
IMHO, the team is a bad mix with no legit star/leader, and one HUGELY problematic bad apple. That bad apple alone can ruin the chemistry... and I think it's clear that has happened.
Jeff may take the bullet, but in reality, this is much more about the players than it is the coach...

 

[elindholm]

Can it simply be that Jeff is totally frustrated because he knows in his soul that the team just isn't good enough, or strong enough mentally?? I mean, the guy has tried about as many tactics as a coach can try in order to get something positive happening, and still this team can't rise to the occasion.
IMHO, the team is a bad mix with no legit star/leader, and one HUGELY problematic bad apple. That bad apple alone can ruin the chemistry... and I think it's clear that has happened.
Jeff may take the bullet, but in reality, this is much more about the players than it is the coach...

I think there's a good chance that that's all true. Hornacek isn't a bad coach in any absolute sense; he was responsible for the Suns' overperformance two years ago, and everyone loved him then. But the reality is that this particular roster is no longer responding to him, and he hasn't figured out a way to get them to listen.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I think there's a good chance that that's all true. Hornacek isn't a bad coach in any absolute sense; he was responsible for the Suns' overperformance two years ago, and everyone loved him then. But the reality is that this particular roster is no longer responding to him, and he hasn't figured out a way to get them to listen.

I really think we are all underestimating the impact from Keef... On a bball team, which is significantly smaller than a NFL or MLB team, it's a ton more easy to ruin the chemistry of a team with a bad apple or two.
Combined with a goose-egg for a true star & leader, well... You get what ya get...
I really like McDonough... but I believe if any one person is to blame, it's him...

 

[Absolute Zero]

And we also have the problem of Sarver and McD getting involved in the playing time decisions, so this is a real cluster.

Here's my solutions:

1. Get rid of Markieff, yesterday

2. Go back to your old line up: Bled, Knight, Tucker, Chandler, and Leuer. Yes, there are problems with this, but at least the players will know what to expect, where eachother should be more on the passes, and who is going to help on D. Yes, Warren is more productive than Tucker, but he will give us a lift off the bench. Same thing on Len/Chandler.

3. For better or worse, let Jeff run the team, McD and Sarver stay out. Make it clear to the players that Jeff is in charge of the playing time for the year, so play your arses off for him. Re-evaluate the coaching situation at the end of the year.

 

[nashman]

This team is just an embarrassment right now! Kieff needs to be gone like yesterday. Don't even look forward to watching this team anymore, they need a serious shake up to even garner interest.

 

[Catlover]

It's not just fans that are ripping on Bledsoe and his contract.

Hornacek after the game last night said that he's disappointed in the guards and that their not stopping anyone and are getting wrecked. He then proceeded to say something about once certain guys get paid, they quit putting forth much effort. Everyone in the Arizona media that's still following the Suns has taken that as an indirect shot at Bledsoe.

I haven't listened to it yet but it could be aimed at Tucker, Keef or even Chandler. And it might be aimed more at what they do away from the game rather than in it. Regardless, given that Jeff has frequently raved about Eric's work effort, I highly doubt it's about Bledsoe.

PJ used to hustle from the opening tip till the clock showed zeroes. Until his benching he was only giving great effort in maybe 1 out of 5 games and it's been that way since his DUI/payday. He still plays good man defense and makes some incredible plays on the ball but then he coasts when he's away from the action. Last night was probably his best overall hustle effort in quite some time although his momentum ending T may well have cost us the game. And we were getting home court treatment by the refs until that call and once PJ angered that ref I'm not sure he made another call in our favor.

Keef's problems go without saying but as for Chandler, either he's declined or the way we are using him conflicts with the way the rest of the team is playing. He looks like he's playing a one man zone (illegal, frequently) but almost always ends up helping at the wrong time or wrong place. Maybe that's him doing it right and everyone else doing it wrong but I don't see the same problems when Len starts.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I haven't listened to it yet but it could be aimed at Tucker, Keef or even Chandler. And it might be aimed more at what they do away from the game rather than in it. Regardless, given that Jeff has frequently raved about Eric's work effort, I highly doubt it's about Bledsoe.



PJ used to hustle from the opening tip till the clock showed zeroes. Until his benching he was only giving great effort in maybe 1 out of 5 games and it's been that way since his DUI/payday. He still plays good man defense and makes some incredible plays on the ball but then he coasts when he's away from the action. Last night was probably his best overall hustle effort in quite some time although his momentum ending T may well have cost us the game. And we were getting home court treatment by the refs until that call and once PJ angered that ref I'm not sure he made another call in our favor.



Keef's problems go without saying but as for Chandler, either he's declined or the way we are using him conflicts with the way the rest of the team is playing. He looks like he's playing a one man zone (illegal, frequently) but almost always ends up helping at the wrong time or wrong place. Maybe that's him doing it right and everyone else doing it wrong but I don't see the same problems when Len starts.

Hornacek specifically mentioned PJ as the only guy who hustles and cares...

 

[sunsfan88]

I haven't listened to it yet but it could be aimed at Tucker, Keef or even Chandler. And it might be aimed more at what they do away from the game rather than in it. Regardless, given that Jeff has frequently raved about Eric's work effort, I highly doubt it's about Bledsoe.

PJ used to hustle from the opening tip till the clock showed zeroes. Until his benching he was only giving great effort in maybe 1 out of 5 games and it's been that way since his DUI/payday. He still plays good man defense and makes some incredible plays on the ball but then he coasts when he's away from the action. Last night was probably his best overall hustle effort in quite some time although his momentum ending T may well have cost us the game. And we were getting home court treatment by the refs until that call and once PJ angered that ref I'm not sure he made another call in our favor.

Keef's problems go without saying but as for Chandler, either he's declined or the way we are using him conflicts with the way the rest of the team is playing. He looks like he's playing a one man zone (illegal, frequently) but almost always ends up helping at the wrong time or wrong place. Maybe that's him doing it right and everyone else doing it wrong but I don't see the same problems when Len starts.

Hornacek specifically said he's most disappointed in the play of the guards. And then he said the thing about players being complacent after getting paid. Like I'm direct quoting when I say that he said "guards". And the only guards other than Price who get playing time on this team is Knight and Bledsoe, who both make a combined $140 million over the next couple years btw.

 

[Catlover]

Hornacek specifically mentioned PJ as the only guy who hustles and cares...

Well then scratch PJ. He and Price were about the only bright spots last night at least.

 

[Mainstreet]

I tend to agree with you and I think Hornacek lost this team, last year because of the way he handled the Morris Twins & Tucker technical issues as well as player rotations. A lot of these issues have been here since last year.

I think we should try another coach prior to dumping everyone. If the attitude and effort still does not turn around then clean house this summer.

We agree a new coach should evaluate the team before a fire sale with the exception of moving Markieff, who should be moved as soon as possible IMO. However, I have wondered what would happen if the Suns hired a strong head coach perhaps like Tom Thibodeau. Maybe even Markieff would come around.

 

[BC867]

Leuer is our center....hope BC isn't watching this...

I didn't watch it, but it wasn't because of Leuer playing Center. I've watched Suns Power Forwards covering Center for decades.

Others have posted things similar to what I am about to share.

I was working at my computer. I could have turned on the game on the TV near my desk. But I just didn't want to feel depressed while I was doing something creative. And that was before the towel incident.

I made the decision 45 years ago to leave the East Coast and spend the rest of my life in the Valley. My wife and I made the move, with our two young sons, eight years later.

I love the Valley and I loved the only game in town, the Suns. They have been special. In spite of all those Power Forwards over the years who had to step up to Center while the Centers played like Guards.

And now it hurts to watch the Suns 2015-2016. I am not boycotting them. I watch the Suns when there is nothing more pleasant on my mind.

But I am tired of feeling depressed and frustrated over something that is supposed to provide enjoyment, a break from the day to day responsibilities. Aren't sports and entertainment supposed to be a positive outlet?

It is not too different from political gridlock 2015-2016. I am sick and tired of watching the same crap over and over.

Bring in an experienced GM and an experienced Head Coach, both of whom are strong enough to tell the owner to leave the day to day operation to them, and I'll be first in line to root root root for the home team once again.

Six non-playoff seasons. Three of rebuilding. And nothing to show for it. It doesn't matter. This is here and now.

One step in the right direction. Followed by another. Then another. Etc. But someone has to take that first step. We're still waiting!

 

[Hoop Head]

And we also have the problem of Sarver and McD getting involved in the playing time decisions, so this is a real cluster.

Here's my solutions:

I have seen it speculated here that McD and Sarver are telling Hornacek who to play but I haven't seen any credible sources actually make that claim. After starting the season pretty good for the first 15 games or so and then falling apart for the next 15 games I doubt McD & Sarver are pushing for X player to get Y minutes since it's apparent the rotations Jeff is using aren't working.

 

[Phrazbit]

I have seen it speculated here that McD and Sarver are telling Hornacek who to play but I haven't seen any credible sources actually make that claim. After starting the season pretty good for the first 15 games or so and then falling apart for the next 15 games I doubt McD & Sarver are pushing for X player to get Y minutes since it's apparent the rotations Jeff is using aren't working.

The rotations are so bizarre that they feel like a dart board is the decider. Maybe the FO was influencing him to play Markieff early on despite his struggles but the rest of the lineups have been crazy too. IMO Horny is trying to ride hot hands on a night to night basis... but isn't being patient enough to let guys get hot and not crediting what measures of success we do have to a lineup that functioned well as a unit, rather he just rides individual players. Our guys have seemed less in tune with each other with each passing game and its no wonder given that there is zero consistency on who they're paired with out there.

It sucks, because Xs and Os early in the year we were pretty damn good on both ends, I think the talent and strategy employed early on could have led to success if there had been any sort of consistency or meritocracy in playing time.

 

[Absolute Zero]

I have seen it speculated here that McD and Sarver are telling Hornacek who to play but I haven't seen any credible sources actually make that claim. After starting the season pretty good for the first 15 games or so and then falling apart for the next 15 games I doubt McD & Sarver are pushing for X player to get Y minutes since it's apparent the rotations Jeff is using aren't working.

There was an interview I posted in another thread, you can also find it on 98.7 FM's website, where Hornacek said playing time was a discussion between him, Sarver and McD. He may have just been referring to Kieff, but it seemed more general than that.

 

[Errntknght]

There was an interview I posted in another thread, you can also find it on 98.7 FM's website, where Hornacek said playing time was a discussion between him, Sarver and McD. He may have just been referring to Kieff, but it seemed more general than that.

I remember that. You can also interpret it as Jeff trying to shift the blame to others - like he regularly does to the players. That's not to say he doesn't have such conversations but he's got to know he's on thin ice and those two will be the ones to decide his fate so he may be just seeking reassurances that they approve of what he's doing. Its called clutching at straws...

 

[leclerc]

I have a legit question that I really do not know the answer to.

Who do you think the players support more?

1. Hornacek
or
2. Markieff

It is really and odd situation.

This is just totally wrong. Players must support coach or they should not get paid. It's not a hobby it's work. You get paid to play ball not coast around and eat shrimp. Spoiled ***** brats.

Update: I agree that Keef should stay home and not show up at practice or at games until he's gone. Send a message please.