Nurk thread

[Yuma]

The Suns have no alternative with Nurkic' style of play because of injuries. My hope is he can stay healthy.

I'd like for the Suns to expand their scouting to Europe as well, if they already haven't.

The Suns do not need a star at the position, however, they could use another athletic 4/5 on the roster beyond Eubanks and Metu.

I do not know what the Suns were thinking with Bol Bol.

It's interesting with Bol Bol. Obviously he signed with us for minimum. We haven't played him but just a few minutes. I didn't catch the guys name, but there was a Suns conversation on 98.7 with an NBA expert, and they mentioned Bol Bol, and the guy said he's always a nice piece to have in a trade scenario. There's some thought the Suns may make one more move before the trade deadline in NBA circles, but nothing concrete like a guard, center, etc. Supposedly Suns want to play a while and see where their greatest need is.

I find it interesting that Durant started pushing the narrative that Booker is the PG of the team. I think I saw Vogel say that once. Now Kay Ray and EJ have echoed that a few times. Is this an attempt to get Booker thought of as a PG for All Star purposes, or for cover of criticism of the Suns for not having a traditional PG? I am kinda thinking the PG thing doesn't seem to be a big deal to Vogel or Saben Lee would have been the fifth guy in lineups. Certainly he would have gotten more run.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's interesting with Bol Bol. Obviously he signed with us for minimum. We haven't played him but just a few minutes. I didn't catch the guys name, but there was a Suns conversation on 98.7 with an NBA expert, and they mentioned Bol Bol, and the guy said he's always a nice piece to have in a trade scenario. There's some thought the Suns may make one more move before the trade deadline in NBA circles, but nothing concrete like a guard, center, etc. Supposedly Suns want to play a while and see where their greatest need is.

I find it interesting that Durant started pushing the narrative that Booker is the PG of the team. I think I saw Vogel say that once. Now Kay Ray and EJ have echoed that a few times. Is this an attempt to get Booker thought of as a PG for All Star purposes, or for cover of criticism of the Suns for not having a traditional PG? I am kinda thinking the PG thing doesn't seem to be a big deal to Vogel or Saben Lee would have been the fifth guy in lineups. Certainly he would have gotten more run.

Looking at Booker's assists (9.3), there is no doubt he plays a lot of point guard. So will Beal. It's all about playing your best players.

If Saban Lee ever makes the standard roster, he will probably be limited to playing point guard because of his height. That's his niche.

 

[Mainstreet]

@Yuma

Yeah, I'm sure the Suns signed Bol Bol for a reason. Maybe there was another team that wanted him.

 

[BirdGangThing]

It's interesting with Bol Bol. Obviously he signed with us for minimum. We haven't played him but just a few minutes. I didn't catch the guys name, but there was a Suns conversation on 98.7 with an NBA expert, and they mentioned Bol Bol, and the guy said he's always a nice piece to have in a trade scenario. There's some thought the Suns may make one more move before the trade deadline in NBA circles, but nothing concrete like a guard, center, etc. Supposedly Suns want to play a while and see where their greatest need is.

I find it interesting that Durant started pushing the narrative that Booker is the PG of the team. I think I saw Vogel say that once. Now Kay Ray and EJ have echoed that a few times. Is this an attempt to get Booker thought of as a PG for All Star purposes, or for cover of criticism of the Suns for not having a traditional PG? I am kinda thinking the PG thing doesn't seem to be a big deal to Vogel or Saben Lee would have been the fifth guy in lineups. Certainly he would have gotten more run.

It's funny tho - Book being the only real scoring option for years in Phx led to all the double and triple teams - which in return led to a lot of distribution preparing him for this very moment - and KD knows it

 

[CardNots]

It's funny tho - Book being the only real scoring option for years in Phx led to all the double and triple teams - which in return led to a lot of distribution - preparing him for this very moment - and KD knows it

Interesting thought, with solid legs

 

[Phrazbit]

I doubt Bol has any trade value. Right before we signed him he was waived, while making the minimum, and went unclaimed.

 

[95pro]

It's interesting with Bol Bol. Obviously he signed with us for minimum. We haven't played him but just a few minutes. I didn't catch the guys name, but there was a Suns conversation on 98.7 with an NBA expert, and they mentioned Bol Bol, and the guy said he's always a nice piece to have in a trade scenario. There's some thought the Suns may make one more move before the trade deadline in NBA circles, but nothing concrete like a guard, center, etc. Supposedly Suns want to play a while and see where their greatest need is.

I find it interesting that Durant started pushing the narrative that Booker is the PG of the team. I think I saw Vogel say that once. Now Kay Ray and EJ have echoed that a few times. Is this an attempt to get Booker thought of as a PG for All Star purposes, or for cover of criticism of the Suns for not having a traditional PG? I am kinda thinking the PG thing doesn't seem to be a big deal to Vogel or Saben Lee would have been the fifth guy in lineups. Certainly he would have gotten more run.

This team was built around book, and built for book to play “pg” as point book. Getting rid of Payne and not acquiring another backup leads me to believe this. But I don’t think we anticipated Beal being injured this much, especially with a back injury let alone.

 

[1982baskets]

Nurkic so far this year vs Ayton last year

Offense: Nurk 118.9 Ayton 113.2
Defense: Nurk 112 Ayton 113.2
Net: Nurk +6.9 Ayton 0

 

[1982baskets]

Nurk has his weaknesses and Vogel has addressed something that Suns will need to do. They'll need to run Durant at the 5, so they can get their defensive floor spacing as well as more speed to set up on offense. Our real 5 rotation should evolve into Nurk/Eubanks/KD. KD should often be used as a closer at the 5. All of this is to say, I just can't see Ayton ever being ok with this. Nurk is doing the best he can, and is ok with his role.

 

[Yuma]

Nurk has his weaknesses and Vogel has addressed something that Suns will need to do. They'll need to run Durant at the 5, so they can get their defensive floor spacing as well as more speed to set up on offense. Our real 5 rotation should evolve into Nurk/Eubanks/KD. KD should often be used as a closer at the 5. All of this is to say, I just can't see Ayton ever being ok with this. Nurk is doing the best he can, and is ok with his role.

Portland fans were saying don't be surprised to see Eubanks in the 4th quarters. We have a good 1-2 punch at Center. Niurkic is great at guys who try and bully ball down low. Eubanks can cover lobs for those leaping centers.

 

[Folster]

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[BirdGangThing]

lol they have Ayton winning the FT comparison

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[Dback Jon]

lol they have Ayton winning the FT comparison

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Same production, Nurc at half the price

 

[BirdGangThing]

Same production, Nurc at half the price

And twice the heart

 

[Vacard]

Ayton is still a walking double-double who could do well with three scorers on the team. Man I really thought addition of Beal, we’d have a center who could facilitate rebound and be the rim-protection he can be and just sleepwalk into a double double. We didn’t need him to be a third scorer since we got three of them now. Now I’m just waiting until Nurk is out for an extended period of time. It’s inevitable at this point.

 

[1982baskets]

^
I don't think Nurk is worse than Ayton in this role. Ayton is not even an elite rim protection 5. If you look at the numbers, Ayton has never been elite at rim protection. Neither is Nurk. We definitely could use a 5 to help Vogel's defense for that cause. A lot of the debate here is based on "What if" vs reality. What if Ayton became an elite defender in Vogel's schemes. I'm not sure a coach makes you an elite defender. I think a coach at this level all they can do is give you an idea of what to do and come up with schemes. The dedication to defense is up to the player. In Ayton's case, he's averaging 0.8 blocks to Nurk's 1.3. Neither is ever going to be in runinng for defensive player of the year.

 

[Phrazbit]

^
I don't think Nurk is worse than Ayton in this role. Ayton is not even an elite rim protection 5. If you look at the numbers, Ayton has never been elite at rim protection. Neither is Nurk. We definitely could use a 5 to help Vogel's defense for that cause. A lot of the debate here is based on "What if" vs reality. What if Ayton became an elite defender in Vogel's schemes. I'm not sure a coach makes you an elite defender. I think a coach at this level all they can do is give you an idea of what to do and come up with schemes. The dedication to defense is up to the player. In Ayton's case, he's averaging 0.8 blocks to Nurk's 1.3. Neither is ever going to be in runinng for defensive player of the year.

There is a lot more to interior defense than blocks. Hassan Whiteside was simultaneously the league leader in blocks while also rated as one of the worst defensive bigs in the league.

Ayton is one of the best bigs in the league at stopping penetration, before last season he also had some of the best shot altering stats in the league.

The biggest difference between them as defenders is when teams force switches and screens on the outside. Ayton was very good at defending those, Nurkic is really bad at defending them because he is glued to the floor.

 

[BirdGangThing]

At some point we have to all come together and support this guy - dude's got heart on tap - he's the Batman to Denver's Joker - absolutely loved the way he battled tonight and more than okay with him "fouling out"

 

[Hoop Head]

Serious question, did Ayton ever outscore Jokic in a game? I'd say no. Maybe before CP3 arrived when we sucked but I don't think so. Nurkic is all in and flows so much better with this team. Does Ayton do some things better? Sure, but those things were never guaranteed and they came at a huge cost. He needed to be handled with kid gloves regularly while Nurkic is a man, a professional, and understands what's needed of him. No regrets about swapping Aaron and Nurk.

 

[CardNots]

Nurkic is a man, a professional, and understands what's needed of him. No regrets about swapping Aaron and Nurk.

This, +1

 

[wagon mound 464]

And twice the heart

Same production, Nurc at half the price

And twice the heart


Great game last night...... he is an asset instead of a liability.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Serious question, did Ayton ever outscore Jokic in a game? I'd say no. Maybe before CP3 arrived when we sucked but I don't think so.

Yes, but only 3 times (in 19) and not since 2021: https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/deandre_ayton_vs_nikola_jokic.htm

Only because I'm guessing at the follow up question, Nurkic has outscored Jokic 9 times (in 23 games): https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/nikola_jokic_vs_jusuf_nurkic.htm

 

[Hoop Head]

Yes, but only 3 times (in 19) and not since 2021: https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/deandre_ayton_vs_nikola_jokic.htm

Only because I'm guessing at the follow up question, Nurkic has outscored Jokic 9 times (in 23 games): https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/nikola_jokic_vs_jusuf_nurkic.htm

Thanks! I didn't want to look over individual box scores on BBRef and figured someone had a better resource for comparison. Kind of what I figured, he hadn't since we've been good.

Nurkic seems to play him better than anyone. I imagine their time together in Denver created a friendly rivalry. Who knows how friendly it is but it seems Nurk really brings it when facing Jokic.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Thanks! I didn't want to look over individual box scores on BBRef and figured someone had a better resource for comparison. Kind of what I figured, he hadn't since we've been good.

Nurkic seems to play him better than anyone. I imagine their time together in Denver created a friendly rivalry. Who knows how friendly it is but it seems Nurk really brings it when facing Jokic.

Play him well? Yup, hard to argue that given the stats. Play him better than anyone? Eh, Embiid has a stronger case: https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/joel_embiid_vs_nikola_jokic.htm, same with Gobert: https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/rudy_gobert_vs_nikola_jokic.htm

Both won the team battle as well as held Jokic to lowerr stats in the aggregate.

 

[Hoop Head]

Play him well? Yup, hard to argue that given the stats. Play him better than anyone? Eh, Embiid has a stronger case: https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/joel_embiid_vs_nikola_jokic.htm, same with Gobert: https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/rudy_gobert_vs_nikola_jokic.htm

Both won the team battle as well as held Jokic to lowerr stats in the aggregate.

I'm not surprised Embiid plays him better given Embiid is an MVP and he and Jokic are so far above any other C in the league.

Gobert is a little surprising but also not. He's a 3x DPOY but he's always such a non factor offensively that it's easy to forget how much he impacts games with just his defense.

Not making excuses. I said what I did and don't mind being corrected but I was speaking a bit more generally than in absolutes. Should have chosen my words better. I do need to check out that site more but I'm afraid I'll lose days on there going down various statistical rabbit holes. Thanks for that info, again.