NYJ 56 ARZ 35: Sorting Through the Wreckage

[CaptTurbo]

Jim Johnson WINS? Since when did he become the HC of the Eagles? The guy is an absolutely phenomenal DC but apparently that's all he is as no team in a decade has even given him a sniff of a head coaching job. Some guys just ain't head coaching material.

Now, with that said,

The Eagles were forced to give him HC money as a DC to keep him in Philly. Doesnt sound like a man not wanted. I think he has the dreaded Asst Head Coach label as well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Eagles were forced to give him HC money as a DC to keep him in Philly. Doesnt sound like a man not wanted. I think he has the dreaded Asst Head Coach label as well.

then I'll say this - if money were the same and people wanted him and he took the Eagles money and shunned opportunity to be his own man and HC, I don't want that guy as my coach. Shows a lack of confidence on a macro level. Seems like he knows what he is - a fantastic coordinator who doesn't have "something" that drives him to be a HC. Yeah, let's get THAT guy in here!

 

[CaptTurbo]

then I'll say this - if money were the same and people wanted him and he took the Eagles money and shunned opportunity to be his own man and HC, I don't want that guy as my coach. Shows a lack of confidence on a macro level. Seems like he knows what he is - a fantastic coordinator who doesn't have "something" that drives him to be a HC. Yeah, let's get THAT guy in here!

He isnt the first or last guy to take a huge salary as a coordinator over a HC. Based on your login our OC is crap. He turned down a potential HC job to stay on as OC here. LOSER! GET RID OF HIM!

Your a a shining example of Arizona sports fans. Your arguing that a winner like Johnson is a bad pick and that Green was much better. Or Whiz for that matter. nice.

 

[earthsci]

Your a a shining example of Arizona sports fans.

Be careful with who you are insulting Turbo.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Be careful with who you are insulting Turbo.

Sorry. Its not my fault there is a difference. You need to step back for a minute if you can (most of you) Imagine you clamored (Ill take 1 instance in dozens to choose from) that you said Dave Mac was an awful coach.

Other posters did nothing but post how stupid you are for thinking Dave Mac could be bad. Then after Dave Mac is fired then everyone else says "Hey Dave Mac was a bad coach, I knew it all the time. You wont admit it but youd be inclined to make it known that in fact they did not say he was bad the entire time.

Thats what I face year after year. Cheese and ouchie and others used to be the only ones that posted the same as I did but they have gone over to the "My blinders are on and we have great coaches, players, etc" whatever the case may be that year side.

So to teach you the difference. Had Coach Mac coached in philly or Pittsburgh or New York he would have been run out of town chased by angry mobs with torches and bats.

In AZ he was only FINALLY, BEGRUDGENLY, thought he was bad AFTER he was fired.

Thats the difference. Thats why the cards lose year after year. Mediocrity is revered.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He isnt the first or last guy to take a huge salary as a coordinator over a HC. Based on your login our OC is crap. He turned down a potential HC job to stay on as OC here. LOSER! GET RID OF HIM!

uh, first, our OC has been an OC for one year - not a decade. Maybe, just maybe he feels like he needs a little more on the job training before taking on a HC position so he won't fail miserably. second, I'm not all that impressed with our OC.

Your a a shining example of Arizona sports fans.

Hey, I'm not the homer who put a lot of money on his team to win on the road, on the East Coast. The fact that you bought into whatever hype and didn't see that loss and re-coronation of Favre coming a mile away speaks volumes about your football accumen. To me, that's the shining example of Arizona sports fans. Loving their team too much to see what they really are.

Your arguing that a winner like Johnson is a bad pick and that Green was much better. Or Whiz for that matter. nice.

Actually, I'm arguing no such thing. I'm saying I don't want a guy who has been in the league forever and either a) doesn't want to be a HC or b) that no one in their right mind would give the job to him. Fantastic cooordinator
and I'd love to him at that position, but I don't want him as my HC. Bringing in Green to the discussion just muddies the water.

 

[Russ Smith]

Agree with most of that cheese... however, they didn't really open the game with "Warner flinging it all over the place"... In fact, in the first quarter, the play-calling was once again ATROCIOUS!! The Cards are so predictible my son's team can stop them on 1st and 2nd downs! Run Edge left - 1 yard... Run Edge right - no yards... Hey, guess what? It's 3rd and long - what do ay think the Cards will do here??

Also - Rolle does suck and needs to get called out once again...
Also - We have ZERO, NADA, NOTHING, ZILCHO Pass Rush!!

As I said in another thread - this team is no different than any other team that has worn the Red & White over the last 7-8 years...
Now 15 & 53 on the road since 2000. Worst in the NFL... Man, the guys from ESPN were even at a loss for words when trying to comment on the Cards. The Cubs are at least fun... The Cards?

We were on their 9 yard line on each of the first 2 drives. Warner's fumble backs us up, we have to throw on 3rd down and then Quan fumbles. 2nd time Warner's intentional grounding backs us up and we get the FG dropped.
Playcalling is never great when you don't score but the first 2 drives it was adequate until we got in the redzone and bogged down, in part because of Kurt.

We absolutely started poorly in part because of Kurt we could have been up 14-0 if he'd been sharp early.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Thats what I face year after year. Cheese and ouchie and others used to be the only ones that posted the same as I did but they have gone over to the "My blinders are on and we have great coaches, players, etc" whatever the case may be that year side.

huh? I've blown up Clancy, and even in this thread I've blown up pretty much every single player on the team except Fitz, Boldin, Wilson and up until this year Dansby. And I don't know if Wiz is "great" or not and having said one way or another. I see the crap hand he's been dealt and I look at the fact that he's still .500 and I think it's a miracle. Doesn't mean I think he's great. It means I'd like to see what he could do without the ineptitude surrounding him. He might flourish or he might fail. If that's blinders on, well, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Hey, I'm not the homer who put a lot of money on his team to win on the road, on the East Coast.
.

Hey, I cant argue that!

Bringing in Green to the discussion just muddies the water.

Not true it was Johnson and Green that interviewed. I wanted Johnson.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not true it was Johnson and Green that interviewed. I wanted Johnson.

well, you were right there. he couldn't have been worse than DG.

 

[earthsci]

Mediocrity is revered.

I disagree. There is a whole list of great coaches who dealt with very mediocre seasons but ownership stuck with them and it paid off. Walsh (8-24 in his first two years), Belichick (6-14 four games into his second season at NE, how about Cleveland), Parcells (7-17 eight games into his second year), Landry (his first six years were so bad that he wouldn't even survive today's NFL), Johnson (8-24 his first two years), Vermeil (9-24 his first two years with the Rams), and Cowher (had a 13-19 two year stretch with Steeler fans calling for his head).

I'm not saying that Whiz is going to great like these guys but people didn't give up on them and they improved. They all took bad teams and got better. I don't think that people are satisfied with Whiz but they see a difference. He's smart and I think that he will change things that don't work. His 10-10 record this far into his second season is better than any of the guys I just listed except for Cowher.

 

[CaptTurbo]

IHis 10-10 record this far into his second season is better than any of the guys I just listed except for Cowher.

Good argument.

I still think he speaks the same snake oil Mac did.

For instance I can tell you exactly what he will say in his press conferance. Remeber we used to have a thread like this with Mac?

He will say.

"You cant win by making mistakes. You cant win turning the ballover"

He says it every lose just like the one heartbeat.

Well why dont the good team with good coaches make mistakes week after week? Are our players not as smart? I doubt that is the issue.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Good argument.

I still think he speaks the same snake oil Mac did.

For instance I can tell you exactly what he will say in his press conferance. Remeber we used to have a thread like this with Mac?

He will say.

"You cant win by making mistakes. You cant win turning the ballover"

He says it every lose just like the one heartbeat.

Well why dont the good team with good coaches make mistakes week after week? Are our players not as smart? I doubt that is the issue.

look who's drafting these players and tell me you think they're on the same level playing field as everyone else.

believe me, I'm not happy that the penalties and mistakes continue to happen, ESPECIALLY the penalties. That's all about discipline and that's on the head coach. But on the mistakes being made and turnovers, like I said, I think Wiz has been dealt a pretty poor hand.

 

[earthsci]

"You cant win by making mistakes. You cant win turning the ballover"

He says it every lose just like the one heartbeat.

Well at least he's talking football instead of physiology!

 

[CaptTurbo]

Well at least he's talking football instead of physiology!

LMAO I guess that is a positive

 

[CaptTurbo]

look who's drafting these players and tell me you think they're on the same level playing field as everyone else.

believe me, I'm not happy that the penalties and mistakes continue to happen, ESPECIALLY the penalties. That's all about discipline and that's on the head coach. But on the mistakes being made and turnovers, like I said, I think Wiz has been dealt a pretty poor hand.

See cheese I disagree. Exactly why when players leave here they are very good. its the teaching. We havent had a teacher here in decades.

 

[Cheesebeef]

See cheese I disagree. Exactly why when players leave here they are very good. its the teaching. We havent had a teacher here in decades.

who are these guys though? Pace looked good last year and he left and continues to look good. Big looked solid for us for years playing out of position. Then he left and continued to look good. The guys that have left and looked good actually looked good while playing here. Talent, natural born talent and ability to play overcome bad coaching.

The only guy I can think of that is truly flourishing once he left the team is Van Den Bosch and even he looked good when he first hit the scene before a gagillion knee surgeries set his career back half a decade. You can probably throw in Thomas Jones as well.

has David Barrett looked good for the Jets? No, He sucked here and he's sucked there. What about Ray Thompson? He sucked here and he was out of the league in a matter of minutes. LJ Shelton? Mediocre at best here and has been a career journeyman since. Michael Pittman? Mediocre running back here and has been everywhere else. Bryant Johnson?

Believe me, when Antrelle Rolle is gone, he's gonna continue to suck somewhere else. Same goes for Levi Brown

Where are all these guys who looked like crap here and were turned into stars other places. We've just lost good players who continued to be good players.