NYTimes: Suns offer Marion+JJ+#7 for McGrady

[Errntknght]

I excerpted this from an article in NYTimes Sports. I have no idea if it is more than conjecture but generally the Times doesn't like their people to present conjectures as facts.


>>
Mavs Pursue O'Neal; McGrady Deal Hits a Snag
By CHRIS BROUSSARD
June 23, 2004

.... snip

It was widely believed that McGrady would be headed to Houston this morning in a trade for Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley and Kelvin Cato. But that deal hit a snag yesterday. Though he is under contract for several years and has no veto power over trades, Francis made it clear that he does not want to play in Orlando, causing the Magic to reconsider the trade.

Several league executives and player agents were baffled by Orlando's hesitation since Francis would have no choice but to play for the Magic.

"John Weisbrod is setting a bad precedent by caving in to this guy," one agent said, referring to Orlando's general manager and speaking on condition of anonymity.

Looking elsewhere, the Magic entered into serious discussions with Phoenix yesterday, and the Suns are offering Shawn Marion, the up-and-coming Joe Johnson and this year's first-round pick (seventh overall), for McGrady. That would give Orlando an all-star small forward in Marion, a potential All-Star shooting guard in Johnson and the first and seventh picks in tomorrow's draft.

.... snip

 

[elindholm]

Boy, imagine when the O'Neal trade winds really start blowing. This frenzy over McGrady is crazy.

 

[F-Dog]

If that's really what it's going to take for the Suns to get McGrady, then I hope he winds up with the Rockets instead.

Two of those pieces I might be able to live with, especially if the piece we keep isn't Joe Johnson.

 

[Biclops]

Marion + JJ + #7 pick is way way way too rich for my blood

Hopefully Marion & JJ or Marion & 7 is good enough for Magic

I want Francis to make more and more complains about not wanting to
play for the Magic; hopefully it will increase the odd that Magic has to find
a new trading partner

2 more days till the draft!!!

 

[elindholm]

It would be nice if the Suns could at least get Drew Gooden included. Gooden has been very erratic in his first two years, but he still has "potential" to be an effective NBA player. His contract makes him a low-risk proposition for whichever team has him.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Man this would gut the team. Does it really make us any better?

 

[elindholm]

Man this would gut the team. Does it really make us any better?

I'd have to say no. That's why I think the Suns had better have some very clear ideas about what they're doing in the FA market if they decide to go this route.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Man this would gut the team. Does it really make us any better?

I'd have to say no. That's why I think the Suns had better have some very clear ideas about what they're doing in the FA market if they decide to go this route.

Before free agency, it doesn't do much. However, it would make the suns a HELL of a lot more attractive to the mid-high level FAs I would think. If they really wanted to target Nash, it would be much easier to convince him after this deal.

 

[cly2tw]

If Barbosa is really a better bet than any #7 PG, I can live with that deal if we also get some further compensation like Gooden and/or #31 pick. We still have tons of cap to sign the likes of Barry, Dampier, Bowen.

 

[SirStefan32]

As most of you know, I am not a fan of Shawn Marion, or Joe Johnson for that matter. I like T-Mac, and I think the Suns have the responsibility to do everything they possibly can to aquire him.

Now, having said that, Marion+JJ+#7 seems a little too much. I think there would be more players involved in this deal.

On the other hand, if you can aquire a superstar, I think you should give up two "good" players, especially if one of them has a contract as horrible as Marion's.

 

[Errntknght]

This trade could be worse than the Penny Hardaway deal... we're certainly giving up more and TMac's salary is higher as well. As others have pointed out he's not without serious flaws and risks. The risk isn't quite as high as with Penny but the flaws are just as bad or worse. IMO, it's another bad trade on the surface. Dig deeper and it's worse.

If you look at the trade from the point of view of the direction the team has been going, which is presumeably the direction they've been intending to go, it doesn't make sense. McGrady is fine in the open floor but to make the running game work you've got to have good defense and rebounding. So we give up our best defender and our second best defender, who is also our second best rebounder (and outstanding at it for his position). McGrady doesn't bring much at all to the table in those two crucial areas. On top of that Marion and JJ together give us a good deal more in the open court than McGrady alone does.

If BC were going to can coach Mikey and bring in someone who knows how to coach a half court offense this move might be a poor risk with some possible upside, but you know he's not going to do that so it's got no upside. What it has got is all the earmarks of another BC 'direction' blunder. Oh well, I predicted BC wouldn't last two years and this could cut it down to one... it's a high price to pay though.

I can't imagine Orlando turning down this reported offer so we have to hope the Times guy mucked up or that Tracy will refuse to promise to sign an extension.

 

[coloradosun]

#7 or JJ

I think this hinges on who is available at #7 in the draft. The Suns might trade JJ if Iguodala is available, the Magic may take the #7 pick if Gordon is available, especially if Orlando takes Okafor at #1. If neither is available then the deal may not happen and Orlando goes with the Houston trade. The contract snag with Francis is proabably a benefit to us because we can see what unfolds in the draft. It is just hard to say the value of #7 until we see who drops. That's why there is a contigency plan of trading #7 to Cleveland for #10.

 

[sunsfn]

This deal is getting worse every day.

Francis does not want to go to Orlando so the gm backs off and is worried..........geez (he is a hockey puck!!)

Then McGrady says he will only sign an extension for the Rockets..........geez

Isn't McGrady just as bad as Francis when he says that????


I hope the suns do not trade for McGrady at this point!

 

[coloradosun]

NYTimes

Remember the NYTimes is the same paper that employed Jason Blair, it's OK to make up stories without any cross references. It is just a LIBERAL rag.

This is pretty funny that these two players are involved in this trade. When the Suns traded for and traded away Barkley at least the other players involved could not complain. I think that is the problem when dealing with supposed Superstar players, if one wants to be traded to a certain team the other one sayes he does not want to move.

 

[devilalum]

This deal is getting worse every day.

Francis does not want to go to Orlando so the gm backs off and is worried..........geez (he is a hockey puck!!)

Then McGrady says he will only sign an extension for the Rockets..........geez

Isn't McGrady just as bad as Francis when he says that????


I hope the suns do not trade for McGrady at this point!

Well McGrady is probably employing his 8th grade education to help with the decision making process.

The spoiled celebrity behavior always ruins the enthusiasm.

It may not have been fair but I long for the old days when professional athletes were treated like a piece of meat and trades were never about capinomics.

 

[Cog]

You gotta be kidding me here...

This is not to offend or belittle anyone in this thread. But, I can hardly believe that you guys truly think the sum of Marion, JJ, and #7 exceeds TMac. Well, I guess it depends on perspective. I could agree to your logic if the goal here is to assemble a solid team than a great team. But, you guys want to build a championship caliber team, ain't ya?

Marion is a great player but not great enough even to be equated to the monies he is getting. JJ? He is a good player. However, JJ still is an inconsistent player with a huge "upside." Granted, I did not follow the Suns last year. But, from what I have heard, the upside still seems to be a biggest asset of JJ. Maybe, he will hit his potential someday -- consistently. Maybe not. Without having to mention #7, JJ's aura is more or less that of the draft day.

Yea, TMac ain't Kobe, let alone being perfect. But, he is an established premier player and has not hit his prime yet. He is one of those you build a team around. Marion ain't. The upsides of JJ and the uncertainty of #7 ain't. You add them up, and the sum of them still ain't.

With Amare and TMac, you got two prime pieces.

There are always a risk that something may go wrong. No exception for TMac. That is, there is a chance that Marion, JJ, and #7 prove to be a superior choice. But, I suspect that the chance is better than that of TMac.

I will rather bear the risk with TMac on my way to the Utopia rather than Marion, JJ, and #7. Far more justifiable in every sense. The only thing that whispers to me for Marion, JJ, and #7 is unwillingness to take a chance, conservative and defensive thinking, and perhaps a bit of selective perception.

I think it should be easier to find a few working pieces around the two, Amare and Tracy than adding one final piece to Amare plus Marion and upsides.

 

[playstation]

i completely agree. the kicker here is if that deal is done, we have a cap number of about 29M, with the cap coming in between 43-47. you can buy a lot of talent for 14-18M, especially when it only needs to be role players because you already have your two stars. this tmac deal goes through, we will be a very good team NEXT year, as well as for the next decade potentially. if we 'grow' with what we got, who knows what that growth leads to. I've already seen Tmac, i've already seen marion, i know tmac has got more to give. i haven't seen enough of jj to make a decision, but his potential doesn't eclipse tmac + the cap flexibility to find jj's replacement. I mean jeez, we could go out and offer ginobili a good contract if we wanted. top 10 moderately consistent sg's can be found rather easily, tmac's are found less often. the price is not too high...