Oden hopes to return to NBA this season

[AzStevenCal]

Gortat looks about the same to me. He has always been afraid of contact, and avoids dunking more than any big man I've ever seen. Once in a while he'll dunk to finish a pick-and-roll, and that happened more with Nash than it does now, but besides that he's marshmallow soft and always has been.

He looks a lot different to me. Oh sure, you're right about the way he finishes but my issue with him these days is more about shot selection. It's like he's trying to convince everyone that he's the master of the finesse shot. I'm talking about that failed dream-shake that results in a wimpy fallaway jumper or the left and right handed hook shots that pretty much never go in. All too often, he tries to do something fancy and he wasn't that way when we first got him. I think we broke him.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Portland's medical crew is notoriously bad. You just have to wonder if a little better med staff would have made a difference.

 

[elindholm]

Sorry, but I remember a player named Boris Diaw.

Diaw's not a "big man" by NBA standards. Not even close.

 

[Chaplin]

Diaw's not a "big man" by NBA standards. Not even close.

He certainly was the year we consistently complained about him dunking.

 

[95pro]

Gortat does look lighter IMO. I've stated this before. The first year he was here he was putting them down, that's when most called him our first legit center and when he was called the polish hammer. Now he's more like the polish sausage

 

[BC867]

Gortat does look lighter IMO. I've stated this before. The first year he was here he was putting them down, that's when most called him our first legit center and when he was called the polish hammer. Now he's more like the polish sausage

How to fit in with your new team with a 4+ decade history of playing light.

It was foolish of me to expect that Gortat would finally show the Suns how to play power basketball instead of them showing him -- well, you know.

Barkley showed the Suns how to play power ball, but he could do only so much at 6'4 1/2", despite his big butt. ***

The Suns couldn't wait to get rid of "The Enforcer" Maurice Lucas in exchange for 6'7" Truck Robinson at Power Forward.

*** I used to crack up every time the Chuckster would crowd an opponent from behind, then step back and the opponent would fall off balance trying to back in. That wasn't power vs. power. That was bait, run and hide.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Diaw's not a "big man" by NBA standards. Not even close.

What kind of "big" are you talking about--"Oliver Miller big" or "true NBA center" big.

 

[BC867]

What kind of "big" are you talking about--"Oliver Miller big" or "true NBA center" big.

I think "big" is really referring to "not soft", no matter what height and/or weight.

 

[elindholm]

I thought everyone was pretty clear on what an NBA "big man" is. It's a power forward or center who is suitably sized for his position. Gortat yes, Diaw no.

 

[Chaplin]

I thought everyone was pretty clear on what an NBA "big man" is. It's a power forward or center who is suitably sized for his position. Gortat yes, Diaw no.

Dias is soft, but what about him isn't PF size?

 

[BC867]

Dias is soft, but what about him isn't PF size?

That was my point. That Power Forwards like Diaw and Frye may have the size, but are soft. On the other hand, the Chuckster had the toughness, but not the size. To go all the way, you need both size and toughness. (Size referring to both height and girth.)

 

[elindholm]

Dias is soft, but what about him isn't PF size?

Well he's generously listed at 6' 8", making him one of the shortest PFs in the league, and the only reason his weight is listed at 235 is that he's eaten so many croissants. Surely you don't actually consider him to look like an NBA power forward. He was drafted as a guard.

 

[elindholm]

That was my point. That Power Forwards like Diaw and Frye may have the size, but are soft.

No, Diaw doesn't have the size. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. Are we actually debating whether Diaw has the body of an NBA big man? This is absurd.

Frye is 6' 11" and quite a bit tougher than Gortat -- not that that's saying much.

 

[Chaplin]

Well he's generously listed at 6' 8", making him one of the shortest PFs in the league, and the only reason his weight is listed at 235 is that he's eaten so many croissants. Surely you don't actually consider him to look like an NBA power forward. He was drafted as a guard.

He played PF for us. Regardless of whether you or I think he's actually a power forward, he played the position. The very fact that he was also "soft" in the position backs up my point that he, like Gortat, didn't dunk or take it to the hole with authority. IMO, he was softer than Gortat, and playing as a PF, it wasn't a good combination.

 

[Chaplin]

No, Diaw doesn't have the size. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. Are we actually debating whether Diaw has the body of an NBA big man? This is absurd.

Frye is 6' 11" and quite a bit tougher than Gortat -- not that that's saying much.

So power forwards are only allowed to be 6'8 1/2" or taller? Seems pretty limiting, especially in this current NBA.

 

[elindholm]

This is getting ridiculous. I said that Gortat avoids dunking more than any big man I've ever seen. I stand by that. If you put a finesse wing at PF, of course he is going to play softer than a legitimate C, even a soft C. Gortat is a wuss. If you want to disagree with that by finding an even bigger wuss who "played center" for a D'Antoni team, knock yourself out. It really has nothing to do with my point, and I think that's obvious.

 

[BC867]

No, Diaw doesn't have the size. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. Are we actually debating whether Diaw has the body of an NBA big man? This is absurd.

I was following up someone else's post, which said, "Dias is soft, but what about him isn't PF size?"

My point was about that softness, regardless of size, and that playing Power Forward in the NBA requires strength and size to outplay your opponent, even if a player is deemed a "big man" (by his coach or otherwise).

 

[Chaplin]

This is getting ridiculous. I said that Gortat avoids dunking more than any big man I've ever seen. I stand by that. If you put a finesse wing at PF, of course he is going to play softer than a legitimate C, even a soft C. Gortat is a wuss. If you want to disagree with that by finding an even bigger wuss who "played center" for a D'Antoni team, knock yourself out. It really has nothing to do with my point, and I think that's obvious.

One, I think it's interesting that you are so upset about this. And two, your point wasn't Gortat was the softest big man you've ever seen, it was about avoiding dunking as a big man, which is a generic term. I posed Diaw as a "big" man who avoids dunking. I think my point is valid until this turned into a debate about whether Diaw was/is a big man or not. For the Phoenix Suns, he was. And he was NOT a wing--what about Diaw made him a wing player? Must of been all those long 3 pointers he shot.

 

[Chaplin]

I was following up someone else's post, which said, "Dias is soft, but what about him isn't PF size?"

My point was about that softness, regardless of size, and that playing Power Forward in the NBA requires strength and size to outplay your opponent, even if a player is deemed a "big man" (by his coach or otherwise).

Sure, but this was originally about a player "avoiding" dunking. Diaw took that to a whole new level, he avoided SCORING as well.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sorry I don't see Gortat as soft....maybe mushy. I considered Dion Sanders soft. Dude never wanted to make contact with anything but the ball. Gortat is weird. I have seen him mix it up plenty of times. I have seen him bang and bang for position. He is a good rebounder and often that requires fighting for the ball. Other times he just doesn't seem to go the rim very hard.

I think it has more to do with the roll they want him to play. This more run and gun type center. Hence the weight loss and the camping at the top of the key.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sorry I don't see Gortat as soft....maybe mushy. I considered Dion Sanders soft. Dude never wanted to make contact with anything but the ball. Gortat is weird. I have seen him mix it up plenty of times. I have seen him bang and bang for position. He is a good rebounder and often that requires fighting for the ball. Other times he just doesn't seem to go the rim very hard.

I think it has more to do with the roll they want him to play. This more run and gun type center. Hence the weight loss and the camping at the top of the key.

I understand why people call him soft but it just doesn't seem to be the right word. I can't think of a person that is soft that plays like he does on D. He's become too much of a finesse player on offense but it's not like he's shying away from contact as much as it is him showing off his "skills". He needs to lose the fascination with skills and just play the stupid game.

Steve

 

[BC867]

I understand why people call him soft but it just doesn't seem to be the right word. I can't think of a person that is soft that plays like he does on D. He's become too much of a finesse player on offense but it's not like he's shying away from contact as much as it is him showing off his "skills". He needs to lose the fascination with skills and just play the stupid game.

Steve

Well said!