Off-season now over- happy with the moves?

[Treesquid PhD]

Tree, you really don't pay much attention to the qualifiers that all of us put when it comes to Boris. We just don't know if what he did with France will translate into success on the Suns.

On the plus side, some pretty good players fell flat on their faces in Europe this summer and many other were wildly inconsistent. Boris certainly proved he has the ABILITY to contribute as his two super dunks on Kirilenko showed (people who saw the video were raving about it for weeks). Only Dirk's super human performance for a very weak German team kept Diaw from being the MVP.

On the minus side, Boris was a backup on the worst team in the NBA the last two seasons.

After over a month of reading about Bobo's European adventure, I am at a complete loss to explain the discrepancy. How does a guy who averaged under 5 ppg with the Hawks and under 10 ppg with Tau all of a sudden become a serious offensive threat? How does a guy who shot under 20% for three hit 43% of his Euro threes?

The whole situation is just too weird. I still have no clue as to whether any of this will translate into being an effective NBA player. I can list a series of possible explanations for why he's suddenly become really good, but I'm not sure I believe them.

1. Confidence - Diaw is young, came into a strange environment (the Hawks were more than strange), on a team with no leadership and with his struggles he lost his confidence. Eurobasket will restore that.

2. Lack of Team Play - Boris is not a guy who is focused on making his own shot, so he rarely got the ball when he was open. The French team was a lot more team oriented (eventually) and so he got better looks.

3. Open Court Play - The Hawks were not a running team and so Diaw's effectiveness in the open court was not capitalized on. The French pushed the ball and it helped Diaw's game.

4. Better Team Defense Helped His Defense - Boris was widely regarded as a good defender, but it was hard to tell on a Hawks team that ranked last in opponent's shooting percentage. The French team was generally pretty good on defense (after they got used to playing together) and Boris's defense really stuck out.

But before getting carried away, it should be noted that in the 2002-03 season, JJ after shooting only 39.7% for the year had a great run of games at the end of the season. Everyone was convinced he had turned the corner, only to play very poorly the first two months of 2003-04. At the time Marbury was traded, JJ was shooting around 39% and under 30% for three.

JJ had several "false springs" before finally playing consistently well. Even if Boris is going to become an outstanding player at some point, it seems unlikely that he will be a consistent producer for while.

While it's possible I may choose the comments I critic about carefully. I still think there is too much hype about a player who many of these guys have never seen before. When someone says "I have a feeling" I get skeptical right away. It sounds to me like BS and wishfulness. I have said many times he maybe a great player for the Suns, I agree with all your points above, I also hope he does well and shuts me up, but heck I am just spinning from these he is an impact player, I just know it let's sign him long term crap. Long term? come on George you're not buying that crap are you? and these JJ sucks because one time he missed an open jumper posts are also BS, JJ is a great player and will not be immediately erased by Boris. It's nonsense, and nothing but hope and an overdose of French style.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Nash: minuets, minuets, minuets, I hope one of these guys can spell him I don't think we can run this guy down every game like we did last season. As conditioned as he is it still concerns me that too much time will eventually burn the Suns.

Nash is dancing?!!! I thought that Mr. Peterman dude from Seinfeld won that thing. You'd think that Nash would be in better shape than him.

I bet Nash could out-last that soap opera chick any day.

 

[mathbzh]

If Amare signs then we have a good offseason.

Regarding JJ : This guy wants to be a star.
He wants to be the #1 in his team. He couldn't have this with Phoenix. He didn't wan't to play for the Suns anymore. He his allready efficient and could turn into a great player (I honestly hope he will).
He is a Hawk now. So stop crying on him. If someone really wants to go, let him.

Finally regarding Diaw. There were so many post during the Euro... I don't want to speak again on how good/bad he can be. So I give you my opinion for the last time.

- Euro is not NBA. I don't know if he will succed in the league. BUt His euro should give him confidence.

- In Euro games, French players have a huge athetics advantage. They can make the difference with this. They can't do the same in the NBA were opponents are much more athletics that in europe. This may have help Boris in the Euro.

- Diaw was the first option in the team (except when Tony Parker played well). So he could take "easy" shoots. When he played with the Hawks, he has to take the shoots when the team was desperate (almost all the games ). If you receive the ball 3 seconds before the buzzer, try a 3 pt against a positioned defense... you may hit 22% when you could hit more than 50 percent alone on the floor. It is meaningless to analyze a shooter precision using raw statistics.

- Diaw seems to need confidence to do good things. That may explain his awful "performance" on FT during the Euro. He will need to progress in focus/self control.

- Diaw can do everything on the floor and may turn in something really good. I guess someday he will be a 10ppg/5apg/5rpg player. But this will not happen this year. He may also never do anything good.

- Don't say JJ is better! Of course he is. Otherwise, the trade would have been JJ for diaw ALONE!

That's all folks. I will not post anymore about Diaw until he plays his first minutes Phoenix.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

- Diaw was the first option in the team (except when Tony Parker played well). So he could take "easy" shoots.

The first option on offense generally has the hardest shots to make. They are required to make the plays for themselves, and defenses key in on them. The 3rd and 4th options generally get the easiest looks, which is part of the reason JJ shot so well.

About your reference to him playing on the hawks: Players that are given the ball in the last couple seconds of the shot clock are generally the first option on offense as well. Think of the Kobe Bryant, Tracey McGrady, Allen Iverson group. These players often get the ball with no time left in hopes that they can bail the team out. The ball should always go to the most talented scorer in the last few seconds.


Other than that, I agree with everything you said.

 

[mathbzh]

I totaly agree with your remarks.

My point was just to say that with France, Diaw has the opportunity to shoot in good conditions and so was able to score with decent statistics. He didn't have this opportunity with the Hawks. He may not have it with the Suns (I just don't know) .

Once again, any NBA player can hit the 3 if he has time to adjust. But (except for few specialists), in real life (during a game) they can't hit the 3 if the defense is not out of position. Do you imagine shooting a 3 feeling Bruce Bowen breath on your face (worm tongues will replace "breath" with "fists" )?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Words marked! I think making the all European Championships team definately translates into gauranteed NBA success. Good call dude!

In related news I dominated a pick up game against 3 midgets on a 12 foot hoop, I think I am also ready to be signed.

kthxbye

While Diaws performance is no reason to bet the house he will be an allstar, it is encouraging for a player who has yet to be given much of a chance to showcase what he can do......Remember Joe was able to succeed here b/c the suns did everything possible to get him in the line up. Thats only way players get better...

And even jokingly comparing a guy who spends a good amount of his time on the computer, playing ball against midgets to Boris in the Euro league (which is better than D1 college basketball) is maybe the craziest post from a guy who has had some of the crazier posts over this off season

 

[George O'Brien]

While it's possible I may choose the comments I critic about carefully. I still think there is too much hype about a player who many of these guys have never seen before. When someone says "I have a feeling" I get skeptical right away. It sounds to me like BS and wishfulness. I have said many times he maybe a great player for the Suns, I agree with all your points above, I also hope he does well and shuts me up, but heck I am just spinning from these he is an impact player, I just know it let's sign him long term crap. Long term? come on George you're not buying that crap are you? and these JJ sucks because one time he missed an open jumper posts are also BS, JJ is a great player and will not be immediately erased by Boris. It's nonsense, and nothing but hope and an overdose of French style.

1. I can only remember one person post a "let's sign him long term now". Virtually everyone else has been pretty cautious.

2. I don't expect Boris to replace JJ. Actually, if Boris becomes a rotation player at some point, I'd be happy.

3. You totally missed my point about JJ's up and down career. It took him a while to become consistent and I expect it will take a while for Boris to become consistent - even assuming he eventually becomes realy good. In short I am NOT expecting Boirs to immediately replace JJ nor even eventually replace JJ.

The JJ deal was not about getting Boris, it was damage control when it became clear that JJ was very unhappy being a supporting player - even when overpaid. At the time of the trade, the key element was thought to be the Hawks pick which is only top three protected in 2007. The Celtics/Laker pick might be useful, but a late teens pick in 2006 is nothing to get excited about. Also, the trade exemption permitted the Suns to get James Jones who looks to be a nice player but no one expects him to replace JJ.

I think most of us thought Boris was just a throw-in. The internal stuff from the Hawks suggest they were shocked when the Suns decided on him rather than Childress or Josh Smith. In practical terms, the question will not be if Boris proves to be better than JJ but whether he proves to be better than Childress or Smith.

 

[scotsman13]

The JJ deal was not about getting Boris, it was damage control when it became clear that JJ was very unhappy being a supporting player - even when overpaid. At the time of the trade, the key element was thought to be the Hawks pick which is only top three protected in 2007. The Celtics/Laker pick might be useful, but a late teens pick in 2006 is nothing to get excited about. Also, the trade exemption permitted the Suns to get James Jones who looks to be a nice player but no one expects him to replace JJ.

i thought the laker/celtics pick was only top 10 protected and we get the lower of the 2 that is above the 10th pick. so if the laker end up with the 11th pick and the celts end up with the 20th pick we the the laker pick at 11. at least this is what i remember hearing, i maybe wrong. in that 10 to 15 range we may end up getting a role player.

 

[elindholm]

so if the laker end up with the 11th pick and the celts end up with the 20th pick we the the laker pick at 11.

No, the Suns get the worse of the two picks. Also, the pick doesn't even kick in until the Lakers make the playoffs.

 

[Chaplin]

I agree that shot blocking is important, but if I remember right - Jake was a horrible shot blocker.

Another thing to notice is that with KT bodying men up, Amare will be able to go back to weakside blocking. He has a knack for it as long as he isn't the only big man on the floor. I mean he did block 10 in a game before.

Sure, shot blocking is important, as it is the main reason for smaller players to not enter the lane.

But while Hunter was a shot blocker, he rarely, if ever, used that skill to force smaller players out of the lane. Shot blocking is fine, but if there are no other skills, including not intimidating opposing players with that shot blocking skill, than it's worthless. And that's exactly what Hunter was. He could block 2 shots in a game if he was lucky, but that certainly didn't discourage anyone from going inside--mostly because he had the strength of Raggedy Ann.

 

[Chaz]

It sucks that JJ is gone but given the circumstances and the money he wanted good ridance.

I think the Suns have done a great job this offseason. They took a few hits but have recovered nicely. They have a deeper more athletic team than they had last year. Fewer wins in the regular season is likely but overall I like our chances.

The people around the league that think the Suns took a step backward don't bother me at all. I don't think they ever really understood the Suns success in the first place. They will probably be suprised once again.

 

[overseascardfan]

They lost some offense but gained toughness and defense. Bell is a good replacement for JJ. I give their offseason a B. For two reasons, I think they should 've gotten more for JJ instead of a couple of picks we probably won't see for at least two years and the fact that I think we need another big body, either a big scoring big man like LaFrentz or a shot blocking intimidator like Ratliff or Pryzbilla.

 

[KANIDJA]

Words marked! I think making the all European Championships team definately translates into gauranteed NBA success. Good call dude!

In related news I dominated a pick up game against 3 midgets on a 12 foot hoop, I think I am also ready to be signed.

kthxbye

What? How old are you to make comparisions like that? Europe is catching up to the NBA - and that is a reality check. If you are able to dominate in the Europe, you will make it in the NBA as well. Young players might need year or two but they will make it. Diaw is extremely athletic, which is going to translate in the NBA as well, he can handle the ball, jump out of the gym, is extremely fast and a good defender. Last year he played on the bad Atlanta team and this year he is going to player behind Amare, Marion, Nash, Raja and the rest of them. He is going to have a lots of space just like JJ did last year. Like I said mark my words he is going to be a stud in this league for the years to come.

 

[The Commish]

This time last year many of us felt that our offseason, though successful, could have been done better. On paper most gave us a B or an A, but felt we overspent for Nash and that he would subsequently break down. Many also felt we had too many guards and not enough big men. We went on to have a stellar season, and thus made our offseason appear to be an A with our changing the NBA.

Fast forward to this year. We lost two starters off our squad, both of them our best 3Pt shooters. With Q and JJ we had youth and athleticism, with unparalleled 3pt capabilities to blow open games. However, we needed to get bigger and deeper - thats without question. Given the circumstances surrounding JJ, I can't entirely blame the organization for what transpired. They thought JJ would stay and were willing to pay him. JJ didn't feel the same way and he moved on. So be it.

However, the way the Suns handled the offseason post JJ was pretty impressive. We signed cheap talent to round out the squad and still have bargaining chips left. We didn't really overpay for anyone, some would argue Raja, but his contract isn't exactly dead weight. We have draft picks a plenty, and we are not in cap hell for the next 10 years.

James Jones I think could be solid down the road, maybe even surprise a few this year. Diaw too has potential but like most of you I am taking the wait and see approach. I am encouraged by his Euro tournament performance. Grant will be decent because his minutes won't be what was expected out of him in LA. Raja I think will be efficient and I expect his 3Pt shooting to be pretty good next year. Marion gets to move back to his SF spot which I think will be able to get him more involved on the offensive end.

Defensively the Suns did get significantly better. We have some bodies in the paint now, and should allow Amare and Marion to great weakside defenders (which is what they do best). "Dirty" Kurt Thomas will play a big role in the middle, and will make or break how our interior D performs.

A big wild card in all of this is Barbosa. I like the kid, I think he's a good player, but he has looked like a rookie for the past 2 seasons. This is his make or break year. He's been in the system for a while now, and has shown flashes of being a very good player. He just needs put it all together, be confident, and eliminate the rookie mistakes he seems to make. If Barbosa can play well at PG, then our need for a backup to spell Nash deminishes. Same can be said for Diaw. If Diaw or Barbosa can be an efficient PG for 10-15 mins a game, it would really be huge for our entire squad.

Overall we have positioned ourselves very well for the next few years as long as Amare signs his extension that he claims will get signed. Though we have gotten somewhat older, we have some good young players as well as solid draft picks for the next couple years. My hope is that we don't trade away all of our picks like we have been the past couple of years. We all know Atlanta will continue to be Atlanta, and we could really get some solid young players out of them. With our trade exemption and some tradeable contracts, we can get a good player in return as well. I don't think we can fully grade this season until we see the finished product on the court, but for what is on paper and what could potentially come, I would give our offseason a B.

 

[sunsfn]

so if the laker end up with the 11th pick and the celts end up with the 20th pick we the the laker pick at 11.

No, the Suns get the worse of the two picks. Also, the pick doesn't even kick in until the Lakers make the playoffs.

I do not remember reading anything about the playoffs?
----------------------------------------------
The Suns will receive Atlanta's own first round pick no later than the 2008 NBA Draft. That pick which is "lottery" protected (1-14) in 2006, has protection through No. 3 in 2007 and has no protection in 2008. In addition the Suns will also receive a conditional first round pick via either the Los Angeles Lakers or Boston Celtics from an earlier trade between Boston and Atlanta. The Laker pick which is subject to protection through No. 10 in 2006, protection through No. 5 in draft years 2007-2010 and unconditional in 2011, is owed to Boston from yet another previous trade. In the year that the Laker pick is conveyed to Boston, Phoenix will receive the least favorable of Boston's own pick or the Laker pick.
-----------------------------------------------------

I may have missed that somewhere, but I thought if the Lakers get the 11th pick in 2006 the suns will get the worse of the Lakers or Boston pick.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I am pretty sure you are right.

 

[sunsfn]

Redstripe27 said,
---------------------------------------------------------
A big wild card in all of this is Barbosa. I like the kid, I think he's a good player, but he has looked like a rookie for the past 2 seasons. This is his make or break year. He's been in the system for a while now, and has shown flashes of being a very good player. He just needs put it all together, be confident, and eliminate the rookie mistakes he seems to make. If Barbosa can play well at PG, then our need for a backup to spell Nash deminishes. Same can be said for Diaw. If Diaw or Barbosa can be an efficient PG for 10-15 mins a game, it would really be huge for our entire squad.
-----------------------------------------------

I agree with some of what you say, but definitely not the make or break year. Not sure why people say that about a young player.
Right now Barbosa is 22 years old, he has only played in the league for two years, and he could not speak English when he came here.

This is not a make or break year for Barbosa, far from it. I expect he will have up and down games throughout the year, hopefully more up than down. Barbosa has the talent to be an exceptional player in this league.

If Barbosa backs up Nash this year, he does not have to play the same game as Nash does. He probably will never be the assist guard that Nash is, not many are. But if he does not make a lot of mistakes and turn the ball over, and can get a few assists and score some points he will play a lot of minutes. He is extremely fast, and can be a good defensive player with those long arms of his.

This is on the suns site.

In his first start (Jan. 5), scored a Suns rookie record 27 points
Averaged 10.0 points, 2.4 rebounds, 3.3 assists and 1.6 steals in 28.0 minutes in 46 starts
Set Suns rookie record with a three-pointer in 10 consecutive games from Jan. 2-19
Ranked in the top 10 among NBA rookies in scoring (7.9, 9th), assists (2.4, T-8th), field goal percentage (.448, 6th), three-point field goal percentage (.395, 1st), three-point field goals made (83, 2nd) and steals (1.33, T-3rd)

I am looking for Barbosa to have a good year. He had an excellent summer playing overseas, and I expect him to be much improved this year.

 

[elindholm]

I do not remember reading anything about the playoffs?

Sorry, you're right, top-10 protected.

The main point is that the Suns get the worse of the two possible picks.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The main point is that the Suns get the worse of the two possible picks.

Yep. The best case scenario for us is if Boston trades pierce away in order to let the young team grow. There is a pretty strong contingent of Boston fans in favor of this, and rumors have been swirling. Maybe we will get a lucky break

 

[elindholm]

The best case scenario for us is if Boston trades pierce away in order to let the young team grow.

But it wouldn't make much difference, right? If Boston becomes worse than the Lakers, the Suns get the Lakers pick.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The best case scenario for us is if Boston trades pierce away in order to let the young team grow.

But it wouldn't make much difference, right? If Boston becomes worse than the Lakers, the Suns get the Lakers pick.

If Boston keeps pierce they will probably wind up with about the 18th pick in the draft.

If they were to trade him and fall deep into the lottery then the Suns would be getting the Lakers pick. Since they are far from a sure thing this pick could wind up in the late lottery.

It isn't a huge increase, but it could jump us up 5-8 picks.

 

[elindholm]

You've obviously forgotten that, due to big-market conspiracies, the Lakers will win this summer's lottery if they miss the playoffs. So no, the Suns can't wind up with a Laker lottery pick in your scenario.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

You've obviously forgotten that, due to big-market conspiracies, the Lakers will win this summer's lottery if they miss the playoffs. So no, the Suns can't wind up with a Laker lottery pick in your scenario.

Doh. Foiled again

 

[Errntknght]

I'm not overly happy with the events of summer. The Suns clearly did not read the situation with JJ well - I think the seeds of his discontent were sown last summer and there's probably nothing they could have done about it but it would have helped if they'd just been on top of it from the beginning - knowing he was going to bolt. In the end they got Atlanta to blink and came away with a reasonable S&T - its just that the timing is bad as the goodies are futures and the Suns window of opportunity is now. The timing was also bad in that the whole thing took so long that the summer signings were pretty much finished.

It appears they frittered away the #21 draft pick by not handling the Q-KT trade right - they went public with it before settling the issue of Q's lack of insurance.

It figured to be a deep draft and it seems to have been at this point but there seemed to be no effort on the part of the Suns to pick up ground in the second round. What irritated me the most that they still could have chosen a highly regarded defender in Eddie Basden with any of their picks - even the one they sold. It would have been a gamble but, at least, if it paid off he might help immediately. But no, the Suns went with an offensive oriented player as always, who's some years away at best.

I wanted the team to keep Hunter but I doubt if D'Antoni would play him as long as he has an alternative because he clearly disliked him. I was somewhat surprised that Hunter was willing to return.

I like the KT pickup but he is undersized and he doesn't have any kind of a low post game. That's not so bad in itself but the trouble is that we don't have any one else with a low post game either (except Amare, if D'A choses to play him down low). He is a good sidekick for Amare though and that's worth a lot - Amare can get him lots of good looks, especially if they work a two man game. KT could be of greater value if the Suns would use some baseline action - Kurt could set some good picks for the wings to use and be in position to step out for a jumper if the pick resulted in a favorable switch or he got loose in the scramble. Don't hold your breath for that, though, as coach Mikey seems to think off-ball screens are not allowed.

While the individual pickups were fine, the collection is not great. D'Antoni loves shooters and that's mainly what the team went for. As a result we wound up with no low post players and no one that has a reputation as a slasher. As a result we are almost locked into the same mistake as last year - too much reliance on three point shooting and little developement of an active offense. The Spurs will probably shut down our three point shooting even more easily than they did last year. The offense won't be bad with Amare and Nash on the floor but, in a way that compounds the problem because the primary offense sets the tone for the whole team. True, we have more depth than last year but unless the coaches devise a different offense for the second unit, I don't see how it can fail to be in trouble.

 

[Errntknght]

George, "1. Hunter has no offensive skills. He scores if he is wide open under the basket, but that's it."

He has a better low post game than anyone on the team other than Amare - though, that's not saying much. He also ran the floor well and finished effectively. Big guys running the floor drag defenders in with them, leaving openings for three point shooters. Oddly enough, he didn't score all that poorly as he scored more points per min than KT did last year.

"2. Hunter is a below average rebounder. Voskuhl had more rebounds per minute played."

It's true he's not a good rebounder but he did tip the ball out to teammates frequently.

"3. Hunter is not strong enough to defend the post. He did OK against thin big men like Gasol, but stronger guys just shoved him out of the way."

That does not agree with my observations as I did not see him get pushed around. As slender as he was he looked like he should get pushed around but it just didn't happen. He even held his own fairly well in the Spurs series - and D'Antoni played him 50% more in that series than he played him in the regular season. In general, it was my observation that the paint defense was significantly better with him on the floor than when Amare was.

I'm not a big fan of plus-minus stats for individuals but if Hunter was as bad as you say and since he was never on the floor with Amare his Plus-minus stat should be absolutely horrendous. I don't have any idea what it was but it seemed to me the team did fairly well when he was on the floor so if his plus-minus is only moderately bad that would indicate my observation isn't too far off the mark. (The main reason I don't like +/- is that it depends so much on who is or isn't regularly on the floor with a player. As a 'line' stat in hockey, it's great - which is where it started, if I'm not mistaken.)

"4. Hunter was very slow in learning to play defense. Interior defense is mostly about rotations, but he was constantly trying to block shots rather than rotate properly. It was what got him relegated to the bench on the Magic and he seems to be slow learner."

A smart coach who was lucky enough to have a good shot blocker wouldn't get his shorts in a knot over the kind of mistakes that Hunter made. What he would do would be to teach his teammates to rotate to Hunter's man when he went to block a shot - something the Suns routinely failed to do.

Several posters made that kind of general complaint about Hunter - looking lost, slow learner, failing to rotate etc. but one thing no one did was point out actual instances of his defensive failings. I did it a few times when he was summarily yanked right afterward - mainly to point out that it wasn't that big of a deal. Heck there were games when Amare's D was incredibly bad and I don't recall anyone but Joe Mama and I ever commenting on it. With no one presenting real evidence of Hunter's defensive failings I'm inclined to think that people just repeated what others said and it became accepted as 'common knowledge'.