Official 2006 Arizona Wildcats Basketball Thread

[Russ Smith]

I guess the result of Ben Howland coming to UCLA is Bruin fans becoming defense snobs. I know the air is thick over there in Westwood but looking around the country you will notuice there is ways to win other than playing lights-out defense. Powerhouse offenses with serviceable and crafty defenses has been the MO of guys like Lute Olson, Roy Williams, Coach K, and Dean Smith for decades now.

The reality is the majority of the best basketball players in the world are mediocre or worse defenders. And great collegiate defenders like Arron Afflalo, Prince Luc Richard, and Lorenzo Mata will be stuck watching mediocre defenders such as Chase Budinger and Marcus Williams every Sunday on ABC for the rest of their lives from Motel 8's in Bakersfield as they wrap up their NBDL road trips.
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Mostly agreed with but one caveat, none of that has anything to do with him being one of the 5 best players in the country next year.

He's going to have to put up near Durant level offense to offset his defense if he doesn't improve in that area.

He's a very talented kid, but at this point in his career a very bad defender.

I'd still love to have him at UCLA, have never denied that.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Mostly agreed with but one caveat, none of that has anything to do with him being one of the 5 best players in the country next year.

Since when are the best players judged on their defense? JJ Redick and Adam Morrison were worse defenders than Budinger and they split College POY honors last year. Look no further than Steve Nash, an abhorrent defender yet two time reigning MVP. Playing good defense generally requires two things: athleticism and/or desire. Chase is lacking in neither of those he just needs the experience and coaching to help him with the fundamentals of it.

PS - I do agree with you though in thinking that defense should come into consideration when judging how good players are but it's not a reality of organized basketball anywhere. Which is probably why Arron Afflalo continues to fly under the radar when it comes to the conversation of the best players in college basketball.

 

[Russ Smith]

Since when are the best players judged on their defense? JJ Redick and Adam Morrison were worse defenders than Budinger and they split College POY honors last year. Look no further than Steve Nash, an abhorrent defender yet two time reigning MVP. Playing good defense generally requires two things: athleticism and/or desire. Chase is lacking in neither of those he just needs the experience and coaching to help him with the fundamentals of it.

PS - I do agree with you though in thinking that defense should come into consideration when judging how good players are but it's not a reality of organized basketball anywhere. Which is probably why Arron Afflalo continues to fly under the radar when it comes to the conversation of the best players in college basketball.

An interesting quote by Ben Hansen regarding Lute and UCLA and SC.

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About the only man happy about this dreadful style of play is Lute Olson himself.
"I hope (USC) doesn't change,'' he said Monday. "I hope UCLA stays a half-court team. It gives us a better shot at (recruiting) kids. Kids like the wide-open style. … I'd encourage (USC and UCLA) to stay half-court oriented.''

It is interesting, UCLA has all these coaches recruiting against them by telling kids they play slow, we don't. That's largely why Chase chose UA he preferred the uptempo game.

You can't argue that UA puts kids in the NBA and you can't argue Lute knows how to coach, but look at the top of the Pac 10 right now, the top 3 records are all defensive oriented teams. Oregon and UA are right behind of course and both have a reasonable shot at cracking that top 3.

It is intriguing though. When Tim Floyd was hired at USC he said something about how Arizona was the standard and he was going to model SC after UA, but it's pretty obvious based on how his team actually plays that he's modelled them after UCLA.

At the moment if I had to guess I'd say WSU probably winds up winning the regular season Pac 10. They're a game behind UCLA, much healthier, and have the more favorable schedule because UCLA and USC both have to play at WSU(and UA).

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

So a sample size of exactly one season means things are changing?

In 2006, UCLA was ahead of a couple up-tempo teams (Washington and Arizona). In 2005, Arizona and Washington were clearly the class of the Pac-10 and both were not defensive-minded, not to mention UNC won the Title that year with an average defense. I disagree with Hansen's take on the matter although unlike ten or even five years ago I cannot stomach a lot of Pac-10 games (ASU and Wazzu are the worst examples) due to the mind-numbing boredom the styles create. However, differing styles does prepare you for Tournament life better.

There's no right way or wrong way to win as long as you win and you aren't doing it illegally. Many different teams with many different styles have won championships. This may come as a shock to Bruin fans who are beginning to worship the word of Howland even worse than some Arizona fans with Lute - but UCLA's way of winning is not the only way.

 

[Mrh182]

When has Shakur ever been a great PG? Last I checked he's completely average at best

During the 12 game win streak at the start of the season, Shakur was showing promise of finally coming up big with his potential.... since then... who knows...

 

[Russ Smith]

So a sample size of exactly one season means things are changing?

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When it makes my point yes.



I just think it's interesting that last year everyone, including UCLA fans, were complaining about the way UCLA played. And this year teams are copying them. Stanford is right there too playing the same style although that's really a function of having no speed at guard and 2 7 footers in the starting lineup.

speaking of Stanford, Goods is out for at least 2 games and they're saying possibly 2 weeks with a bad ankle sprain. You could hear him yell in pain as soon as it happened.

 

[Lefty]

Hansen's today article is very interesting, especially this part of the story.

Arizona has gone to the Final Four four times in the last 18 years; the rest of the league, combined, has been there just three times. The envy has finally spurred action best exemplified by the success of the league's two most dreary basketball schools, USC and Washington State.
Arizona has produced basketball revenues of $31.5 million the last two seasons, which dwarfs the rest of the league. The No. 2 basketball money-maker in that span is UCLA at $16.5 million. Cal, a relatively successful basketball school, has generated just $11.8 million in the same period.
Arizona State, which has athletic budget problems and is working on yet another new basketball coach, the droll Herb Sendek, made a mere $8.6 million in basketball the last two seasons.


http://www.azstarnet.com/sports/169150

 

[Mulli]

Those are just Stoopid numbers.

 

[Renz]

Arizona State, which has athletic budget problems and is working on yet another new basketball coach, the droll Herb Sendek, made a mere $8.6 million in basketball the last two seasons.

That's surprising. I would have figured on ASU basketball losing about $8.6 million the last two seasons.

 

[Lefty]

That's surprising. I would have figured on ASU basketball losing about $8.6 million the last two seasons.

Well you got to remember their only sellout each year is when UofA fans fill up their arena.

Seriously, it would be nice if ASU could at least be a 500 team in the Pac-10 because that would help the Cats immensely. Teams would have to prepare harder when they play the Devils.

 

[SO91]

Why the hell is Mustafa walking the ball up the court with 29 freaking seconds left and down by 4? F*cking idiot!!!

 

[Lefty]

Why the hell is Mustafa walking the ball up the court with 29 freaking seconds left and down by 4? F*cking idiot!!!

I can't wait until Bayless. Mustafa never could put it all together on a consistent basis.

 

[SO91]

Nope, I'll be happy when he finishes his 4 years

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

It seems like Lodrick Stewart has been torching us since the mid-90s.

 

[Mrh182]

Just gross... WAY too many turnovers...

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I can't wait until Bayless. Mustafa never could put it all together on a consistent basis.

Not quite a Top 10 PG is he?

I like Mustafa, he's a good kid that works his ass off and I somewhat can't hold him fully responsible for his struggles as he was forced to put up with headcases like Andre Igoudala, Hassan Adams, Chris Rodgers, and Salim Stoudamire for the majority of his time in college. However, he is the point guard and should be a strong leader of the team both off and on the court. For whatever reason, he has never been able to accomplish that.

It's time for Bayless.

 

[Russ Smith]

Interesting Tim Floyd comments taking exception to Lute's comments about USC and UCLA's slow playing style.

----------------------------------------------------------

Floyd took exception to comments made by Arizona coach Lute Olson about the Trojans' defensive-mindedness.

"I can't believe that, as long as Lute's been in the business, he'd stoop to negative recruiting," Floyd said. "The last time I checked, we were one point out of being the second-highest-scoring team in our league. The last time I checked, we scored 80 points against Arizona the last time we played."

Arizona leads the Pac-10 in offense, averaging 78.8 points per game. Washington is second at 72.3 and USC is fourth at 71.1.

"He must be concerned about the kids we're signing and getting committed is all I can tell you," Floyd said.

Olson told the Arizona Daily Star, "I hope (USC) doesn't change. ... It gives us a better shot at (recruiting) kids. Kids like the wide-open style."

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Tim Floyd has no room to talk when it comes to recruiting, he's getting kids that nobody else in the conference recruits due to academics or shady past dealings. Lute simply pointed out a reality - some kids will always want to play in a more up-tempo style (ie Chase Budinger, Hassan Adams) while others (Arron Afflalo, James Keefe) will want a more disciplined setting. Neither way is wrong and neither way is right.

 

[Russ Smith]

Tim Floyd has no room to talk when it comes to recruiting, he's getting kids that nobody else in the conference recruits due to academics or shady past dealings. Lute simply pointed out a reality - some kids will always want to play in a more up-tempo style (ie Chase Budinger, Hassan Adams) while others (Arron Afflalo, James Keefe) will want a more disciplined setting. Neither way is wrong and neither way is right.

I found it funny because again last night Floyd commented on how big the win was because he considers UA to be the standard in the conference. Of course he said that largely because they'd just beaten UA, he's clearly not modelling SC after UA.

Floyd is going to be the most hated coach in the conference really quickly if he isn't already for the exact reason you mentioned, he's winning with players that in many cases other schools simply won't allow their coaches to recruit. The problem is fans etc don't care about that stuff they just say hey how come USC is so much better this year, why can't we do that? Puts a lot of pressure on other coaches to try and keep up, most of whom are competing on an unlevel playing field because they can't recruit those players.

An example, in a story last month Taj Gibson admitted that he'd talked to UCLA and Ben Howland who told him I think you're a great player, I'd love to have you at UCLA, but we looked at your grades and there's no way we can possibly offer you because you'd never get through admissions. Gibson said he was not necessarily mad at Howland but he was using it as motivation to play against UCLA(was before the rematch). And Gibson's a Rhodes Scholar compared to Davon Jefferson.

The downside for USC is if rumors are true, Nick Young is gone to the NBA, Gibson is strongly considering it too(he's getting beat up as the only post man), and they still have no idea if Jefferson will make the grade or Mayo will pass the amateur status committee.

So this may be a one year deal that comes crashing down next year without Stewart, Young et al.
But if everyone sticks around, and they get in Mayo and Jefferson they're going to be awfully good next year.

 

[Russ Smith]

FYI UCLA injury update. Luc was cleared to play tomorrow, he got hit in the eye with an accidental elbow from Pendergraph last night but they said he's fine. I hadn't realized that was even an issue but apparently it bothered him quite a bit last night. Hopefully that's why he got a donut. he didn't play the first time against UA but he's still our best rebounder and a very solid defender.

Collison and Mata both survived and will be good to go tomorrow. As I mentioned in the other thread, Serge "I'm a goon" took 2 blatant cheap shots at Collison's bad left shoulder last night turning on screens and driving his shoulder in DC's, so I'm glad to hear he's going to be ok. Still haven't seen any explanation for Afflalo's behavior last night, he hit 2 different ASU players with elbows, and had to be separated from Polk at one point by the refs, all of that happened before Serge went after Collison, so I'm not really sure why he was in such a foul mood last night.

So we'll have 4 injured starters going into the game, but at least they can all start. UA is a 1.5 point favorite, not too surprising, road game, and the way UCLA has played the last 2 games.

 

[Russ Smith]

wow lots of runs. Amazing half by UA, 2 fouls in an entire half of basketball, UCLA hasn't even attempted a single free throw yet. Part of that is bad defense, part of that is the refs are really letting them play.

Great half for Shipp, really needed that.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Getting swept by the LA schools is unacceptable. Getting swept on Senior weekend is unheard of. Changes need to happen and soon. Hopefully switching Shakur with Bayless will be the answer but I have my doubts.

 

[Mulli]

Getting swept by the LA schools is unacceptable. Getting swept on Senior weekend is unheard of. Changes need to happen and soon. Hopefully switching Shakur with Bayless will be the answer but I have my doubts.

They know we are the better team.

/shakur

 

[Lefty]

Congrats to UCLA. They dominated. The Cats next game is against ASU and not is going to be tough with the way they are playing.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

They know we are the better team.

/shakur

Sadly, the only player on UCLA's roster that has a realistic chance to be a contributor in the NBA is Darren Collison so Shakur is somewhat right. Unfortunately for the Cats there's more to winning college basketball games than NBA talent.