Official Jake Plummer Handball Thread

[Gee!]

haters, explain this... Jake 1 playoff win despite ownership, every QB before and after in the modern era 0! Then Jake moves on to Denver and goes to the playoffs. Retires and now Denver sucks. Jealous rat haters, maybe Ortege Jenkins could do better..Ha... Tuitrama should have a good pro career in the arena 2 league...

Ya thats right.. Jake did it all by himself.. No one else.. Just Jake.. Im glad we got rid of Larry Centers, Lomas Brown and Jamir Miller right after that playoff year.. Jake took us to how many playoffs without them? Oh ya.. none..

 

[Russ Smith]

And a few of the ones who just don't have it are so envious,they continue to badmouth him,whether the things they say are true or not.

I'll bite, what things said about Jake in this thread are untrue?

 

[Gee!]

I'll bite, what things said about Jake in this thread are untrue?

Oh here we go lol.. Your asking the woman who believes Kurt is the anti Christ.. Now youve done it.. lol

 

[ARZCardinals]

Jake and Eric just get their rears kicked every game.

The grand prize was - drum roll please - $25,000

the same as 30 seconds jake made in an NFL game.

 

[RedViper]

I think the handball thing is all in good fun but I'm sad to see it turn into a full on demolition of Jake. I'll concede that ultimately he was not the long term answer for us and he was overpaid. An unlike far better guys like Wendall Bryant and Andre Wadsworth, he wasn't willing to just give back all the money he didn't earn. He actually kept all that money that he was astute enough to procure for himself under the purely evil system of capitalism and its use of contracts. People who are disappointed as far as that goes, I don't really take issue with.

It is disgusting and pitiful to me, to see a full on feeding frenzy on the one guy that was electrifying and incredible and more responsible than anyone else for the one and only great acheivement this team has had in the Arizona era and probably since 1947. Jake always will get a warm welcome from me for that one incredible month of football, December-January 1998. The ball passed through his hands on every offensive play in the last second victories against Philly, New Orleans, San Diego (where he leads the team into field goal range with 19 seconds on the clock) and lastly in Dallas where we win a playoff game in Texas Stadium and essentially put an end to the 90's era dominance of that putrid team. Whatever we paid Jake, to me it was worth, every penny for the one month of incredibly exciting and successful football. The only month in our modern history that has been worth a damn. Jake's always going to get a welcome from me. As far as the personal attacks and derision go, again, I think its totally out of line and pitiful. Just one more way our critics can say there's almost nothing positive about being a fan of this team but instead its primarily just some kind of addiction to negativity.

 

[azsouthendzone]

This was supposed to be a fun handball thread. I just thought it would be fun to follow his handball exploits. It wasnt meant to tear him down. I have a lot of respect for him. My best days as a Cards and ASU fan had him at QB. An autographed Cards jersey is hanging on my wall. Let's just stick to handball.

 

[BigRedMO]

Hart had far better teams? He had a better OL than Jake did but those Cards teams had no defense at all. The defense in 98 was 3rd in the NFL in forced turnovers, and they damn near shut Dallas out in Dallas in the playoff win.

You give Jim Hart or Neil Lomax that defense and they'd have won some playoff games too.

I hope we learned a lesson from Jake. I hope part of the reason Whiz was so public about teaching Leinart how to prepare as an NFL QB is that he was aware of what went on when Jake was in the same position and wants to make sure that doesn't happen again with Matt.

Bottom line for me is I feel Jake cheated this franchise by not putting in the effort. If he wasn't interested in being a great QB fine, but don't take all the money.

The Cards under Hart were 11-3, 10-4 and 10-4 and won two NFC East titles. Those teams had hands down more talent then the 98 Cards. The Hart Cards were the best offensive line in football with four of them making probowls in that era. Hart, RB Metcalf and WR Gray were probowlers at the "skill" positions. WR Tilley made probowl in '80 and I think FB Jim Otis made a ProBowl. He led league in rushing one year. They had 3 HOFers(Dierdorf, Wehrli, Smith) on those teams. '98 cant even come close to how good the 70s Cards were. Yet Hart played poorly in his two post season games. Still he is one of my favorite Cardinals and even if I didnt like him I would wish him the best.

But back to the Plummer topic.

It made me sad when as a kid I heard that Steve Little broke his neck and would be paralyzed for the rest of his life from the neck down even though is NFL career did not work out. It makes me sad when I hear what has happened with Luis Sharpe and Conrad Dobler.

At funerals I often hear a prayer which part of that prayer says -

To be forgiven for my trespasses and to forgive those who trespass against me

In the spirit of that prayer I wish every former and current Cardinal the best in their lives. I like to hear that they are happy and doing well.

 

[Russ Smith]

The Cards under Hart were 11-3, 10-4 and 10-4 and won two NFC East titles. Those teams had hands down more talent then the 98 Cards. The Hart Cards were the best offensive line in football with four of them making probowls in that era. Hart, RB Metcalf and WR Gray were probowlers at the "skill" positions. WR Tilley made probowl in '80 and I think FB Jim Otis made a ProBowl. He led league in rushing one year. They had 3 HOFers(Dierdorf, Wehrli, Smith) on those teams. '98 cant even come close to how good the 70s Cards were. Yet Hart played poorly in his two post season games. Still he is one of my favorite Cardinals and even if I didnt like him I would wish him the best.

.

Those 3 years the Cards were 8-12 and 16 in points allowed, that's why they made the playoffs those were the only years Hart was a Card where he had an even average defense, 73 and 77 we were 23rd in points allowed and didn't make the playoffs either year.

That was a terrific offensive team, Otis however only topped 1000 yards once it was the overall balance that made the offense so good, Gray, Tilley, Metcalf we had a good player at virtually ever spot on offense.

Jackie Smith was near the end at that point, the 3 years you mentioned he caught a total of 41 passes, in 3 seasons. Had only 5 in 77 and then 0 his last year with the Cowboys(before the fatal TD drop in the Superbowl that cost them the game). Jackie was a HOF player but not during the cards playoff years.

And yes hart didn't play well in the playoffs 2 TD 4 picks just under 50% passing. But let's look at how Jake did in his 2 playoff games as a Card, 2 TD 4 picks just over 50%. Jake was not any better than Hart. Hart threw away the Ram game(3 picks) Jake gave away the Viking game(2 picks and at least one fumble). Both those teams were too good to give the ball that often.

The difference was, the defense held dallas to 7 points and basically shut them out till the last minute of the game.

Jake didn't carry the 98 team to that win they carried him. The hope was he would continute to get better and the team would win a lot more games. Injuries decimated our defense, and the offense got worse and worse in part because Jake didn't get better. That's why his lack of effort off the field bothers me, it directly affected the path this franchise took.


I don't wish ill on Jake by any means I'm glad he's happy playing handball and living in Idaho, I just wish he'd taken the QB responsibilities more seriously when he was here.

 

[BigRedMO]

The Cards from 74-76 won 31 and lost 11. That is a .738 winning percentage with two division titles. The '98 Cards were 9-7 with a winning percentage of .563. They were one year and done. I will take the .738 winning percentage over 3 years.

 

[nashman]

I don't like Jake because he extended his collegiate frat life for six years while being paid as a professional on my favorite NFL team. I'm a Wildcat yet I supported his drafting and his first couple years I supported him until I found out he saw his career as nothing more than a hobby to pass the time by and make some cash. He pretty much did the same thing in Denver and is just as loathed in that town.

How many times does Jake have to flip off season ticket holders, incite road rage incidents, grope co-eds, leave his wife at the altar, tell off his fans, or quit an NFL career to pursue freaking handball until people realize he's an immature flake? The guy's track record off the field speaks for itself. The only people that still support this clown are ASU fans, but I guess I understand as Wazzu fans still idolize fellow idiot Ryan Leaf.

DUMB!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

DUMB!

Ah yes, as opposed to the sheer brilliance of your posts.

Feel free to refute anything in my post because all of it is well-documented and true.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

A lot of dumb comments were made when Jake Plummer left the desert and went to Denver. That coupled with the fact there was a thread about him every week. Especially when he was having his "MVP" season up in Denver.

That is were a lot of my angst comes from. I was obnoxoius to hear that Jake Plummer didn't have this or that to support him in the desert, etc., etc. Like it was everyone's fault but Jake Plummers when he was playing just as bad as everyone else on the team at that time.

But to be fair it is not warranted anymore. The guy wanted out, he is out. He wants to take his money and play hand ball that is good for him.

 

[Russ Smith]

The Cards from 74-76 won 31 and lost 11. That is a .738 winning percentage with two division titles. The '98 Cards were 9-7 with a winning percentage of .563. They were one year and done. I will take the .738 winning percentage over 3 years.

The NFL was completely different in the 70's surely you realize there was barely any free agent movement and teams stayed intact much longer than today?

Free agency and injuries broke up the '98 team. Didn't help that the QB got worse.

The only reason we even made the Playoffs in 98 was the schedule was weak, but the team had good young talent had we been able to hold that talent together, and seen improvement from Jake we'd have been back to the playoffs after that. We gave Jake a huge contract, lost players in FA as a direct result of his signing bonus, and then he played foosball instead of trying to learn the offense.


I'm not arguing the 98 team was better but it wasn't clearly inferior the defense was much better, we didn't sustain it due to free agency, injuries, and bad QB play.

 

[nashman]

As I said DUMB! Lots of reasons not to like a guy, but a bunch of crap about his personal life is just stupid. The guy played his heart out at ASU and for the Cards until they took the talent away. Want to blame someone blame the cheap ass bidwills back then. They have gotten a little better but they still do things backwards from a personell stand point. Gave this town its only playoff win despite the Bidwills is how it should read. The Plummer hatred is just stupid, he played for us and won/loss for us same as any other player. You don't know the guy on a personel level so his personal life is really none of your business. Think what you want, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even the SHEER BRILLIANCE of the crap you post keep up the good work.

 

[Russ Smith]

As I said DUMB! Lots of reasons not to like a guy, but a bunch of crap about his personal life is just stupid. The guy played his heart out at ASU and for the Cards until they took the talent away. Want to blame someone blame the cheap ass bidwills back then. They have gotten a little better but they still do things backwards from a personell stand point. Gave this town its only playoff win despite the Bidwills is how it should read. The Plummer hatred is just stupid, he played for us and won/loss for us same as any other player. You don't know the guy on a personel level so his personal life is really none of your business. Think what you want, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even the SHEER BRILLIANCE of the crap you post keep up the good work.

I'm not going to offseason conditioning and I'm not watching game films but I am playing my heart out?

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

First rule of message boards: double check spelling and grammar before heckling somebody's education or intelligence.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Jake always will get a warm welcome from me for that one incredible month of football, December-January 1998. The ball passed through his hands on every offensive play in the last second victories against Philly, New Orleans, San Diego (where he leads the team into field goal range with 19 seconds on the clock)

I could care less about Jake, but come on man, are you serious about Jake "leading the team into FG range with 19 seconds on the clock" against SD? Metcalf's 60 yard run back is what led us into FG range. Plummer threw a 7 yards pass on that "drive". Talk about revisionist history.

 

[RedViper]

I could care less about Jake, but come on man, are you serious about Jake "leading the team into FG range with 19 seconds on the clock" against SD? Metcalf's 60 yard run back is what led us into FG range. Plummer threw a 7 yards pass on that "drive". Talk about revisionist history.

It was actually a ten yard pass, with essentially nothing left on the clock to get us to very outside edge of field goal range. So yeah, he gets full credit for that too and there is nothing revisionist about it when he makes a perfect play after the defense has given up ten points to collapse at the end of the fourth quarter. Metcalf's return, fine as it was, left us SHORT of field goal range.

And all this bs about Jake holding that team back is utter nonsense. Yeah he wasn't Joe Montana, but name me anyone on that 98 team that had a better year than Jake. You had your typical putrid O'line, youve got a running back and number one reciever who are in the last productive year of their careers. Its not like anyone on the team, with maybe the exception of Aneas and Rice go on to do much of anything on the football field after 98.

So yeah, Jake gets a ton of credit for our only good season. Deal with it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It was actually a ten yard pass, with essentially nothing left on the clock to get us to very outside edge of field goal range. So yeah, he gets full credit for that too and there is nothing revisionist about it when he makes a perfect play after the defense has given up ten points to collapse at the end of the fourth quarter. Metcalf's return, fine as it was, left us SHORT of field goal range.

wow, so a defense that produced 4 turnovers for the day and held the Chargers to 13 points for the entire day and Metcalf's 60 yard run back really had nothing to do with anything because Plummer gets FULL CREDIT for throwing an 8 Yard pass? Are you kidding me? The only reason we were in that position to have get a game winning FG was because the offense was completely inept after the first quarter, while the D kept getting turnover after turnover after turnover and being sent right back on the field.

And all this bs about Jake holding that team back is utter nonsense. Yeah he wasn't Joe Montana, but name me anyone on that 98 team that had a better year than Jake.

Name you one player who was better than a QB who had a 17:25 TD:Turnover ratio? How about Kwame Lassiter who had 9 INT, helping us offset all those Jake miscues to keep us in games? How about rookie Mark Smith who had 9 sacks? How about Jamir Miller doing everything on the field, with a broken wrist for half the season? How about Aeneas Williams being the Pro-Bowl/HOF that he was?

You had your typical putrid O'line, youve got a running back and number one reciever who are in the last productive year of their careers. Its not like anyone on the team, with maybe the exception of Aneas and Rice go on to do much of anything on the football field after 98.

Jamir Miller was a Pro-Bowler in Cleveland before his career was decimated by injuries. Corey Chavous was a Pro-Bowler in Minny I believe.

So yeah, Jake gets a ton of credit for our only good season. Deal with it.

where did I say he didn't get a ton of credit for it. He definitely had a comeback magic to him at the end of games, but we wouldn't have been in that position most of the time if not for the torrent of turnovers he had prior to the fourth quarter.

 

[RedViper]

wow, so a defense that produced 4 turnovers for the day and held the Chargers to 13 points for the entire day and Metcalf's 60 yard run back really had nothing to do with anything because Plummer gets FULL CREDIT for throwing an 8 Yard pass? Are you kidding me? The only reason we were in that position to have get a game winning FG was because the offense was completely inept after the first quarter, while the D kept getting turnover after turnover after turnover and being sent right back on the field.



Name you one player who was better than a QB who had a 17:25 TD:Turnover ratio? How about Kwame Lassiter who had 9 INT, helping us offset all those Jake miscues to keep us in games? How about rookie Mark Smith who had 9 sacks? How about Jamir Miller doing everything on the field, with a broken wrist for half the season? How about Aeneas Williams being the Pro-Bowl/HOF that he was?



Jamir Miller was a Pro-Bowler in Cleveland before his career was decimated by injuries. Corey Chavous was a Pro-Bowler in Minny I believe.



where did I say he didn't get a ton of credit for it. He definitely had a comeback magic to him at the end of games, but we wouldn't have been in that position most of the time if not for the torrent of turnovers he had prior to the fourth quarter.

Nevertheless, the Defense collapses in the fourth quarter to an awful San Diego team. Metcalf makes a great play, Jake and Frankie Sanders make great plays and Jacke makes a great kick (he missed an easy one earlier).

The Defense on that team was better than average. It probably carried the offense most times. Nevertheless, most of those players on defense weren't that good. None of them besides Aneas will see the pro bowl and most were almost done with their careers.

The only real point I'm making however, we agree on. Jake gets a ton of credit. Many on these board seem to have a big problem with that. But if he doesn't get a ton of credit for our one successful year, thats the revisionist BS history, I'm not going to sit still for.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Defense on that team was better than average. It probably carried the offense most times. Nevertheless, most of those players on defense weren't that good. None of them besides Aneas will see the pro bowl and most were almost done with their careers.

huh? Simeon was a fixture at the Pro-Bowl for Tampa, Jamir was a Pro-Bowler in his first year with Cleveland and I think even Kwame was a Pro-Bowl alternate with us. That's FOUR Pro-Bowl level players on the defense, but most of the players weren't that good? That just doesn't wash with me.

And I don't think Jake gets a "ton" of credit for that season, but he definitely was a contributor to the team. I give more credit to the defense than anything else considering their QB turned over the ball 25 times throughout the season (which is a horrific number).

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Jake gets a ton of credit. Many on these board seem to have a big problem with that. But if he doesn't get a ton of credit for our one successful year, thats the revisionist BS history, I'm not going to sit still for.

Preach on brother...Jake was far from perfect, but considering our past and present, winning with this organization should never ever be complained about. With the exception of the 97' team, we really haven't had any good years in Arizona.

 

[Gee!]

This was supposed to be a fun handball thread. I just thought it would be fun to follow his handball exploits. It wasnt meant to tear him down. I have a lot of respect for him. My best days as a Cards and ASU fan had him at QB. An autographed Cards jersey is hanging on my wall. Let's just stick to handball.

what? lol

 

[vince56]

no





more





jake





plummer





ever

 

[RedViper]

huh? Simeon was a fixture at the Pro-Bowl for Tampa, Jamir was a Pro-Bowler in his first year with Cleveland and I think even Kwame was a Pro-Bowl alternate with us. That's FOUR Pro-Bowl level players on the defense, but most of the players weren't that good? That just doesn't wash with me.

And I don't think Jake gets a "ton" of credit for that season, but he definitely was a contributor to the team. I give more credit to the defense than anything else considering their QB turned over the ball 25 times throughout the season (which is a horrific number).

So we've regressed to Jake that Jake was merely a contributor. And that credit is attributable to magic rather than an actual ability to lead an offense to remarkable last minute comeback victories. The Defense, which was awesome, is responsible for any real success that year.

I don't have time to look it up, but my memory of that defense is they were slightly above average. And the real question is, how good was the defense that year. How many pro-bowlers did we have that year. Chavous who played safety for Minnesota, wasn't a world beating corner for us. Where did the defense rank in 98? Again my memory is, at best, they were above average and I still give Jake a ton of credit none of it attributable to magic.