Official: Larry Fitzgerald is Coming Back

[AZfaninMN]

Well put and glad you posted it

If YOU as the GM had to build around the current team can you honestly say you'd put 5.5% of the overall funds on a player who ON THE FIELD gets you all of 50 yards a game and averaged 1 TD every 4 games?
I'd think not when you need to field a team of 53.

Add to it you've got
Chandler Jones taking $16 million
David Johnson $10 million
Peterson $12 million
Justin Pugh $7 million
Jordan Hicks $6 million

You get my drift - the money they had of the $200 over $120 million is already spent.

They HAD $80 mill to spend for this next season. They just spent $11 of that $80 on Larry - thus spending 13.75% of what they had to spend....and in return for the 13.75% of the money you spent....you just got....a WR that averaged 50 yards a game and 1 TD every 4 games.

Good luck winning with that formula! (Sarcasm)
You can't!
The team has more holes than a spaghetti strainer and they spent all that money on an area THEY DON'T NEED


There is NO WAY the Cardinals can catch up in the division with the level of ineptitude of spending habits Keim brings to the table.

What's next - let Drake go instead of paying him....probably because they don't have the money to when FA hits.

You WILL see players take a mill here and a mill there to go to other teams...and when they're talking O and D line.....you will see! Till then ....spend like there's no tomorrow.

You keep bringing up his stats and how it relates to everyone else in the nfl. What you’re failing to mention is he was our leading receiver last 5 seasons and arguably the best blocker at his position in the nfl. Or does the only thing that matters are his receiving stats and how they matchup to the rest of the nfl?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My argument is that:

1.) Fitz is more valuable to his team than is Edelman to his...
2.) If Edelman were on any other team, he would likely be earning several million more...

1.) On the field he is empirically not more valuable. In fact he is 38% less valuable in yardage and 50% less valuable on TDs. Those are two 100% measurable ways that make teams win or lose.
2.) yes, you’ve proven my point! If he’s earning less on the Pats than he would elsewhere it’s bc that money is used to improve other parts of the team. So spending more in Fitz means less production (proof above in #1) and inability to sign better players.

and if you say that Edelman signs for less bc the patriots are good, that’s circular. Maybe they’re good bc their better players take less to be surrounded with better players. And thus the pats are a good team. And the cardinals are a . . . bad team. I mean, the proofs in the pudding.


If you want to argue all the soft touchy feely reasons for paying Fitz more than Edelman I won’t argue. I’ve already said I’m okay with it. But trying to argue Fitz value equates to edelmans in football terms? Nah, you lose.

 

[PDXChris]

Well put and glad you posted it

If YOU as the GM had to build around the current team can you honestly say you'd put 5.5% of the overall funds on a player who ON THE FIELD gets you all of 50 yards a game and averaged 1 TD every 4 games?
I'd think not when you need to field a team of 53.

Add to it you've got
Chandler Jones taking $16 million
David Johnson $10 million
Peterson $12 million
Justin Pugh $7 million
Jordan Hicks $6 million

You get my drift - the money they had of the $200 over $120 million is already spent.

They HAD $80 mill to spend for this next season. They just spent $11 of that $80 on Larry - thus spending 13.75% of what they had to spend....and in return for the 13.75% of the money you spent....you just got....a WR that averaged 50 yards a game and 1 TD every 4 games.

Good luck winning with that formula! (Sarcasm)
You can't!
The team has more holes than a spaghetti strainer and they spent all that money on an area THEY DON'T NEED


There is NO WAY the Cardinals can catch up in the division with the level of ineptitude of spending habits Keim brings to the table.

What's next - let Drake go instead of paying him....probably because they don't have the money to when FA hits.

You WILL see players take a mill here and a mill there to go to other teams...and when they're talking O and D line.....you will see! Till then ....spend like there's no tomorrow.

Honestly, if you were one of my data analysts and brought this up me, I'd fire you for using a bias to tell your story. You are taking bits and peices to tell a larger story. Your numbers are not yet settled as it is too early and you're using only one metric to justify a whole. I gave you the only factual numbers we can use at this point. As far as stats, there are about a dozen others you left out, not to mention non quantifiable stats like how his locker room impact is, which none of us are qualified to speak to.

 

[iLLmatiC]

Well put and glad you posted it

If YOU as the GM had to build around the current team can you honestly say you'd put 5.5% of the overall funds on a player who ON THE FIELD gets you all of 50 yards a game and averaged 1 TD every 4 games?
I'd think not when you need to field a team of 53.

Add to it you've got
Chandler Jones taking $16 million
David Johnson $10 million
Peterson $12 million
Justin Pugh $7 million
Jordan Hicks $6 million

You get my drift - the money they had of the $200 over $120 million is already spent.

They HAD $80 mill to spend for this next season. They just spent $11 of that $80 on Larry - thus spending 13.75% of what they had to spend....and in return for the 13.75% of the money you spent....you just got....a WR that averaged 50 yards a game and 1 TD every 4 games.

Good luck winning with that formula! (Sarcasm)
You can't!
The team has more holes than a spaghetti strainer and they spent all that money on an area THEY DON'T NEED


There is NO WAY the Cardinals can catch up in the division with the level of ineptitude of spending habits Keim brings to the table.

What's next - let Drake go instead of paying him....probably because they don't have the money to when FA hits.

You WILL see players take a mill here and a mill there to go to other teams...and when they're talking O and D line.....you will see! Till then ....spend like there's no tomorrow.

We'll probably just re-sign Greshams corpse.

 

[BigRedRage]

1.) On the field he is empirically not more valuable. In fact he is 38% less valuable in yardage and 50% less valuable on TDs. Those are two 100% measurable ways that make teams win or lose.
2.) yes, you’ve proven my point! If he’s earning less on the Pats than he would elsewhere it’s bc that money is used to improve other parts of the team. So spending more in Fitz means less production (proof above in #1) and inability to sign better players.

and if you say that Edelman signs for less bc the patriots are good, that’s circular. Maybe they’re good bc their better players take less to be surrounded with better players. And thus the pats are a good team. And the cardinals are a . . . bad team. I mean, the proofs in the pudding.


If you want to argue all the soft touchy feely reasons for paying Fitz more than Edelman I won’t argue. I’ve already said I’m okay with it. But trying to argue Fitz value equates to edelmans in football terms? Nah, you lose.

Well....Fitz as a patriot would likely have higher statistics catching passes from Brady the last 5 years than his QBs. I think looking at stats in a vacuum isn't the best way to view it. I'm not sure who would be more valuable in the same scenario.

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[82CardsGrad]

1.) On the field he is empirically not more valuable. In fact he is 38% less valuable in yardage and 50% less valuable on TDs. Those are two 100% measurable ways that make teams win or lose.
2.) yes, you’ve proven my point! If he’s earning less on the Pats than he would elsewhere it’s bc that money is used to improve other parts of the team. So spending more in Fitz means less production (proof above in #1) and inability to sign better players.

and if you say that Edelman signs for less bc the patriots are good, that’s circular. Maybe they’re good bc their better players take less to be surrounded with better players. And thus the pats are a good team. And the cardinals are a . . . bad team. I mean, the proofs in the pudding.


If you want to argue all the soft touchy feely reasons for paying Fitz more than Edelman I won’t argue. I’ve already said I’m okay with it. But trying to argue Fitz value equates to edelmans in football terms? Nah, you lose.

Not sure where you are pulling those % differences... Over the most recent 3 years for example, as I posted, Fitz has 1 more TD the Edelman...
The Patriots are good because of Belicheck and Brady. Edelman is a solid player. But he's merely a cog in the Patriot wheel. He's not a Hall of Famer. He will never remotely approach any of Larry's alltime records. And he'll never be the locker room presence, nor the leader/mentor and face of the franchise that Fitz is.
Edelman is replaceable... Fitz is not.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well....Fitz as a patriot would likely have higher statistics catching passes from Brady the last 5 years than his QBs. I think looking at stats in a vacuum isn't the best way to view it. I'm not sure who would be more valuable in the same scenario.

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That’s fair

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not sure where you are pulling those % differences... Over the most recent 3 years for example, as I posted, Fitz has 1 more TD the Edelman...
The Patriots are good because of Belicheck and Brady. Edelman is a solid player. But he's merely a cog in the Patriot wheel. He's not a Hall of Famer. He will never remotely approach any of Larry's alltime records. And he'll never be the locker room presence, nor the leader/mentor and face of the franchise that Fitz is.
Edelman is replaceable... Fitz is not.

see there’s the problem in your argument. This isn’t about careers. This isn’t about lay three years. This about what have you done for me lately being the best indicator of next years performance. At advance age you can’t look back THREE YEARS and use that to project next year. Any GM doing that should be fired immediately. The only person doing that is someone who can’t use more valid data and has to reach back to try to cobble together an argument.

and I believe the mentor myth has been dispelled on this board as nauseum and you’re changing the goalposts. Your argument was performance worth the dollars and you compared him to Edelman. Sorry, the evidence doesn’t support you. Maybe the conjecture that BigRedRage put forth has some weight, but that’s conjecture.

 

[82CardsGrad]

see there’s the problem in your argument. This isn’t about careers. This isn’t about lay three years. This about what have you done for me lately being the best indicator of next years performance. At advance age you can’t look back THREE YEARS and use that to project next year. Any GM doing that should be fired immediately. The only person doing that is someone who can’t use more valid data and has to reach back to try to cobble together an argument.

and I believe the mentor myth has been dispelled on this board as nauseum and you’re changing the goalposts. Your argument was performance worth the dollars and you compared him to Edelman. Sorry, the evidence doesn’t support you. Maybe the conjecture that BigRedRage put forth has some weight, but that’s conjecture.

So go back further if you want. Reach back beyond the most recent 3 years. How many times has Edelman gone over 1,000 yards? Who has more TD's? How many times has he had over 90 catches in a season...
Really not sure where you're going here?

And, while you and others on a message board can attempt to "dispel" Larry's leadership role on the team, I can assure you it is very, very real and a very, very large reason why he remains in a Cardinal uniform...

 

[BigRedRage]

He is at a minimum, a role model and an example of what it takes to be the best. Outside of that he seems to be an amazing teammate through and through. Then place still quality production and history behind him and it's a no brainier signing and the money isn't terrible. There really should be nothing to complain about. I mean, would you guys trade Fitz for Edelman or other similarly paid wide receivers for one year? Would it be worth it just for minor production changes and how that would go over in the locker room?

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So go back further if you want. Reach back beyond the most recent 3 years. How many times has Edelman gone over 1,000 yards? Who has more TD's? How many times has he had over 90 catches in a season...
Really not sure where you're going here?

And, while you and others on a message board can attempt to "dispel" Larry's leadership role on the team, I can assure you it is very, very real and a very, very large reason why he remains in a Cardinal uniform...

Holy crap YOU’RE DRIVING THE WRONG WAY, man! You don’t pay for past performance! And your argument was that next year he’s worth as more than Edelman. Don’t look at ancient history to make that determination. Look at NOW. Can someone help me explain this more clearly because clearly 82 has zero idea what I’m saying.

and he’s been such a great mentor that we have zero wrs on this roster from before this year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He is at a minimum, a role model and an example of what it takes to be the best. Outside of that he seems to be an amazing teammate through and through. Then place still quality production and history behind him and it's a no brainier signing and the money isn't terrible. There really should be nothing to complain about. I mean, would you guys trade Fitz for Edelman or other similarly paid wide receivers for one year? Would it be worth it just for minor production changes and how that would go over in the locker room?

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With everything considered, no. And I’ve been consistent saying that. But 82 was arguing he’s worth more Edelman from a pure performance perspective and that’s just not true NOW.

 

[GatorAZ]

So go back further if you want. Reach back beyond the most recent 3 years. How many times has Edelman gone over 1,000 yards? Who has more TD's? How many times has he had over 90 catches in a season...
Really not sure where you're going here?

And, while you and others on a message board can attempt to "dispel" Larry's leadership role on the team, I can assure you it is very, very real and a very, very large reason why he remains in a Cardinal uniform...

He has over 1,000 yards in his last 10 playoff games. Does that count?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Holy crap YOU’RE DRIVING THE WRONG WAY, man! You don’t pay for past performance! And your argument was that next year he’s worth as more than Edelman. Don’t look at ancient history to make that determination. Look at NOW. Can someone help me explain this more clearly because clearly 82 has zero idea what I’m saying.

and he’s been such a great mentor that we have zero wrs on this roster from before this year.

So you're saying Edelman should be paid more because it's expected he will be a larger contributor?
I think I'm safe in saying that athletes are indeed paid on what they've done in the past, PLUS, future expectations.
In Fitz's case, those future expectations are not only the pure football measurable stats, though, between his receptions, yards, TD's and blocking (correct me if I'm wrong but I don't seem to recall Edelman being known for his blocking skills?), the expectations for Fitz still place him at lofty levels - likely leading the team in a few categories.
As for zero WR's on the roster from the previous year, both Cooper and Kirk would fall into that category.
But of course, you would not make the assumption that a player who is viewed as an exemplary leader would be held accountable for retaining WR's on the roster... I mean, surely you know that players, including Fitz, aren't involved in the talent selection, right? And when the coaches change year after year, coordinators, etc... roster changes are inevitable as well...

 

[RON_IN_OC]

see there’s the problem in your argument. This isn’t about careers. This isn’t about lay three years. This about what have you done for me lately being the best indicator of next years performance. At advance age you can’t look back THREE YEARS and use that to project next year. Any GM doing that should be fired immediately. The only person doing that is someone who can’t use more valid data and has to reach back to try to cobble together an argument.

and I believe the mentor myth has been dispelled on this board as nauseum and you’re changing the goalposts. Your argument was performance worth the dollars and you compared him to Edelman. Sorry, the evidence doesn’t support you. Maybe the conjecture that BigRedRage put forth has some weight, but that’s conjecture.

Isn't the last 3 years pretty much the definition of lately? I mean, he's not pulling stats from when Whis was still coach...right?

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[slanidrac16]

I am extremely freaking happy Fitz is back. It's not just about the number of catches but the quality of the catches. Fitz gets ball and charges ten yards into the end zone through a defender. Kyler feeling duress throws a ball at Fitz behind or over him and Fitz makes the catch for a first down. Team seems down and Fitz makes a play and for who and what he is, what he means to the franchise and the crowd, the team gets a instant momentum switch... yeah, I will give this Hall of Famer some money

Yes . Not too many wr’s would be willing or able to run over KJ Wright.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Michael would pay Fitz 15 million if he wanted. You may not think it's a discount but it is

 

[82CardsGrad]

He has over 1,000 yards in his last 10 playoff games. Does that count?

Not really... since Fitz has 942 yards in his 9 post season games, along with 57 catches and 10 TD's...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So you're saying Edelman should be paid more because it's expected he will be a larger contributor?
I think I'm safe in saying that athletes are indeed paid on what they've done in the past, PLUS, future expectations.
In Fitz's case, those future expectations are not only the pure football measurable stats, though, between his receptions, yards, TD's and blocking (correct me if I'm wrong but I don't seem to recall Edelman being known for his blocking skills?), the expectations for Fitz still place him at lofty levels - likely leading the team in a few categories.
As for zero WR's on the roster from the previous year, both Cooper and Kirk would fall into that category.
But of course, you would not make the assumption that a player who is viewed as an exemplary leader would be held accountable for retaining WR's on the roster... I mean, surely you know that players, including Fitz, aren't involved in the talent selection, right? And when the coaches change year after year, coordinators, etc... roster changes are inevitable as well...

You have strayed so far from your original argument it makes no sense to continue.

 

[Syracusecards]

Retired? Why, because we live in Mesa? LOL

It feels totally manufactured. Fitz knew all along he was coming back. Why not just say so? Maybe he just likes people talking about it all the time. I'm not even talking about reporters and their questions. Can't tell you how many people - every year, recently - have come to me as their "friend who is a Cards' fan" just to ask me "Do you think Fitz is coming back?"

Did Fitz run over your dog by accident or something? Who the HELL cares about his process???

 

[SoonerLou]

Soooo

Do you think Kirk finally overtakes him as the #1 next year or no?

 

[82CardsGrad]

You have strayed so far from your original argument it makes no sense to continue.

Not really... just responding to where you took the convo.
But rather than continue to drag this out, quite simply: I believe Fitz is more valuable to his team than Edelman is to his.
I think Fritz’s #’s over the recent past compare remarkably well with those of Edelman, the difference in age and wear & tear not withstanding.
I believe the expectations for Fitz to continue to put up potentially team leading stats in 2020 is quite real, particularly with respect to catches and TD’s.
I believe the intangibles strongly favor Fitz (blocking, leadership, face of franchise and community engagement).
Ball all that up and for me, paying that guy $11 million is extremely well worth it, will not hinder the team in any way from doing what it needs to in order to improve the roster, and, if Mike B were paying him more, I’d still be 100% behind it.
You feel differently... bueno for you! [emoji106]

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not really... just responding to where you took the convo.
But rather than continue to drag this out, quite simply: I believe Fitz is more valuable to his team than Edelman is to his.
I think Fritz’s #’s over the recent past compare remarkably well with those of Edelman, the difference in age and wear & tear not withstanding.
I believe the expectations for Fitz to continue to put up potentially team leading stats in 2020 is quite real, particularly with respect to catches and TD’s.
I believe the intangibles strongly favor Fitz (blocking, leadership, face of franchise and community engagement).
Ball all that up and for me, paying that guy $11 million is extremely well worth it, will not hinder the team in any way from doing what it needs to in order to improve the roster, and, if Mike B were paying him more, I’d still be 100% behind it.
You feel differently... bueno for you! [emoji106]

Nah you (a) totally strayed from your original argument; and (b) completely misstate my position. As a result I’m not continuing the argument.

at the end of the day we will both enjoy Fitz next year.

 

[WildBB]

Fitz, Doan, RJ. Icons in the VOS.

He and Old St. Lou. Cardinal Larry Wilson along with PT will always be Mr. Cardinal. Let the franchise be grateful. The fans are, we've galvanized Arizona Cardinal football behind Larry. It'll hit us more when he decides to hang it up ~ but in the mean time All Time Greatness awaits.

 

[ARZCardinals]

Not really... just responding to where you took the convo.
But rather than continue to drag this out, quite simply: I believe Fitz is more valuable to his team than Edelman is to his.
I think Fritz’s #’s over the recent past compare remarkably well with those of Edelman, the difference in age and wear & tear not withstanding.
I believe the expectations for Fitz to continue to put up potentially team leading stats in 2020 is quite real, particularly with respect to catches and TD’s.
I believe the intangibles strongly favor Fitz (blocking, leadership, face of franchise and community engagement).
Ball all that up and for me, paying that guy $11 million is extremely well worth it, will not hinder the team in any way from doing what it needs to in order to improve the roster, and, if Mike B were paying him more, I’d still be 100% behind it.
You feel differently... bueno for you! [emoji106]

Insanity!
Anyone that takes Fitz over Edelman has no clue