arthurracoon
The Cardinal Smiles
With the way the suns are playing, I agree.
They need a miracle turnaround - remember when the suns were 0-2 on a road trip, played Boston and won. They played great for at least 1-2 months.
Official Suns Vs Sonics Retro Night
- Thread starter JS22
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With the way the suns are playing, I agree.
They need a miracle turnaround - remember when the suns were 0-2 on a road trip, played Boston and won. They played great for at least 1-2 months.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Not too bold actually Joe.
The Suns will not make the playoffs. I will eat my words if the do (and smile profusely) but they just aren't good enough right now.
Nothing Bold About That Prediction
The Suns are awful right now.
Tell me why Amare Stoudemire plays 21 minutes tonight.
Tell me why Googs sucks so bad now. The Sonics stayed in the game during the first quarter solely because Googs is planted in cement.
Tell me why Shawn Marion doesn't wear a Phoenix Mercury jersey. It's good to have a shooters mentality...if you are a shooter. Drive to the basket and get the foul you freakin pansy. If Marion had one ounce of Marbury's toughness he would be worth the money he is making.
Tell me why Joe Johnson can't shoot at home.
Tell me why Frank Johnson should have a job if the Suns fold on the way to the playoffs. At one point they were 3rd in the conferance. If anyone else took you to the lottery two seasons straight they would have been fired by now. In fact, I hope the hot seat is on full burner next year.
Tell me how Jake Voskul gets 5 defensive lane violations? Having him camp the lane is the same as me camping the lane, neither one of us is going to block a shot anyway.
Tell me why Scott Williams has vanished.
The Suns better start thinking about drafting a center. Between the idiot (Voskul) and the man who makes continental drift look like NASCAR (Big Jake) we have the two worst centers in the game.
The Suns are awful right now.
Tell me why Amare Stoudemire plays 21 minutes tonight.
Tell me why Googs sucks so bad now. The Sonics stayed in the game during the first quarter solely because Googs is planted in cement.
Tell me why Shawn Marion doesn't wear a Phoenix Mercury jersey. It's good to have a shooters mentality...if you are a shooter. Drive to the basket and get the foul you freakin pansy. If Marion had one ounce of Marbury's toughness he would be worth the money he is making.
Tell me why Joe Johnson can't shoot at home.
Tell me why Frank Johnson should have a job if the Suns fold on the way to the playoffs. At one point they were 3rd in the conferance. If anyone else took you to the lottery two seasons straight they would have been fired by now. In fact, I hope the hot seat is on full burner next year.
Tell me how Jake Voskul gets 5 defensive lane violations? Having him camp the lane is the same as me camping the lane, neither one of us is going to block a shot anyway.
Tell me why Scott Williams has vanished.
The Suns better start thinking about drafting a center. Between the idiot (Voskul) and the man who makes continental drift look like NASCAR (Big Jake) we have the two worst centers in the game.
Oh and
Our problems go a lot deeper than Dan Langhi. At least he plays hard and moves without the ball. He is just hampered by a lack of talent.
Our problems go a lot deeper than Dan Langhi. At least he plays hard and moves without the ball. He is just hampered by a lack of talent.
Voskhul has been playing his butt off recently. He is a foul machine though.
Big Jake hasn't played in a couple months and it's going to take him time to get back in shape and in the rhythym of things. Once he gets acclimated (and FJ starts playing him more) he'll be fine. I can't see how you can say we have the two worst centers.
Big Jake hasn't played in a couple months and it's going to take him time to get back in shape and in the rhythym of things. Once he gets acclimated (and FJ starts playing him more) he'll be fine. I can't see how you can say we have the two worst centers.
elindholm
edited for content
Tell me why Amare Stoudemire plays 21 minutes tonight.
He looked hurt. I didn't hear anything, but he wasn't moving well at all. Something in a foot or knee. I'd guess it's not serious, but it was hampering him, whatever it was.
Tell me why Shawn Marion doesn't wear a Phoenix Mercury jersey.... Drive to the basket and get the foul you freakin pansy.
Heh!
Tell me why Joe Johnson can't shoot at home.
For what it's worth, Johnson had gone through a stretch of shooting quite well, both at home and on the road. It just happened to end tonight.
The Suns better start thinking about drafting a center.
I'm sure they are, but there won't be anyone good left by the time the Suns draft. The good centers always go very early.
A better choice would be to try to get a second-tier center in free agency, except that the Suns can't afford one.
So ... unfortunately, the Jakes are the best chance they have. Cross your fingers and hope for the best this off-season.
He looked hurt. I didn't hear anything, but he wasn't moving well at all. Something in a foot or knee. I'd guess it's not serious, but it was hampering him, whatever it was.
Tell me why Shawn Marion doesn't wear a Phoenix Mercury jersey.... Drive to the basket and get the foul you freakin pansy.
Heh!
Tell me why Joe Johnson can't shoot at home.
For what it's worth, Johnson had gone through a stretch of shooting quite well, both at home and on the road. It just happened to end tonight.
The Suns better start thinking about drafting a center.
I'm sure they are, but there won't be anyone good left by the time the Suns draft. The good centers always go very early.
A better choice would be to try to get a second-tier center in free agency, except that the Suns can't afford one.
So ... unfortunately, the Jakes are the best chance they have. Cross your fingers and hope for the best this off-season.
tommcnabb
The Punisher
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Think we need a different coach?
I don't know for sure but it just seems like we should be better. Do they teach pick and rolls at practice?
The following piss me off.
1. Marion needs to drive. Have Steph take him to Coney Island over the summer and teach him some toughness.
2. Give Casey a chance to fail. He hustles and yea, he's not the greatest defender, but he drives to the bucket.
3. Practice spelling the following sentence...MOVE without the ball.
4. How about a coach that is pro-active rather than re-active. Take advantage of the other guys weaknesses first.
--Tom
I don't know for sure but it just seems like we should be better. Do they teach pick and rolls at practice?
The following piss me off.
1. Marion needs to drive. Have Steph take him to Coney Island over the summer and teach him some toughness.
2. Give Casey a chance to fail. He hustles and yea, he's not the greatest defender, but he drives to the bucket.
3. Practice spelling the following sentence...MOVE without the ball.
4. How about a coach that is pro-active rather than re-active. Take advantage of the other guys weaknesses first.
--Tom
From AZCentral : Center Jake Tsakalidis bemoaned his diminishing playing time after Saturday's loss at Dallas, but forward Tom Gugliotta is none too pleased with his, either.
"I'm just trying to deal with it," Gugliotta said. "Obviously I don't like it. I'm just trying to be ready. I was getting into good shape, but the last game I really played substantial minutes in was Portland, but the last three games I've gotten two or three minutes. I have to deal with it. I've seen it happen to other guys."
Said coach Frank Johnson, "Googs plays much better as a starter. I sat down and talked about it with him. The problem is he struggles coming off the bench. It takes him some time to get going. Guys like (Jake) Voskuhl and Bo (Outlaw) come off the bench with instant energy, but Googs isn't that kind of player.
"At some point he'll have to develop into that type of player, especially with the development of Amare (Stoudemire), because they're playing the same position."
So Frank Johnson understands that Big Jake and Googs play better as starters and Bo as a reserve and despite that he makes exactly the different thing. Isn't this foolish?
"I'm just trying to deal with it," Gugliotta said. "Obviously I don't like it. I'm just trying to be ready. I was getting into good shape, but the last game I really played substantial minutes in was Portland, but the last three games I've gotten two or three minutes. I have to deal with it. I've seen it happen to other guys."
Said coach Frank Johnson, "Googs plays much better as a starter. I sat down and talked about it with him. The problem is he struggles coming off the bench. It takes him some time to get going. Guys like (Jake) Voskuhl and Bo (Outlaw) come off the bench with instant energy, but Googs isn't that kind of player.
"At some point he'll have to develop into that type of player, especially with the development of Amare (Stoudemire), because they're playing the same position."
So Frank Johnson understands that Big Jake and Googs play better as starters and Bo as a reserve and despite that he makes exactly the different thing. Isn't this foolish?
Chaplin
Better off silent
That is absolutely idiotic. Obviously, Googs will no longer be a starter. That's plain and simple because Amare is the starter.
FJ is a moron. Googs plays better as a starter. That is so idiotic I can't even contain myself. If he plays better as a starter, fine, but since that isn't a possibility, his great solution is to bench him and not play him at all? Asinine.
FJ is a moron. Googs plays better as a starter. That is so idiotic I can't even contain myself. If he plays better as a starter, fine, but since that isn't a possibility, his great solution is to bench him and not play him at all? Asinine.
elindholm
edited for content
Johnson might have been trying to be diplomatic. Gugliotta is bad no matter when, or how much, he plays. (He did have a good game against Portland on 3/5, 12-5-4 in 22 minutes.)
I think what Johnson really meant was, "You're no good off the bench. You might be a little better as a starter, but Stoudemire is starting, so you can't start. Until you learn how to become a better bench player, I can't use you."
I think starting Gugliotta at center against teams who don't have a real center (for example in the last Kings game when Divac was hurt) isn't a bad idea. He should be a little more effective than Scott Williams in that role.
I think what Johnson really meant was, "You're no good off the bench. You might be a little better as a starter, but Stoudemire is starting, so you can't start. Until you learn how to become a better bench player, I can't use you."
I think starting Gugliotta at center against teams who don't have a real center (for example in the last Kings game when Divac was hurt) isn't a bad idea. He should be a little more effective than Scott Williams in that role.
I think we can sit here and find problems with the teams' lineup all day long. God knows I am constantly complaining about it. But I think my biggest complaint with Johnson's coaching this season has got to be that he has a team that still has no idea of how to break a zone. They just pass the ball around the outside until somebody takes a three-pointer shot.
I would be willing to bet that if we went back and watched tape on all of the Suns losses two-thirds of them were because they were stifled by a zone defense during some part of the game. I know a good zone defense is difficult to score against even when you know what you're doing. However the Phoenix Suns look clueless every time they see it.
One more thing... when Stephon Marbury and/or Shawn Marion are struggling with their outside shots the Phoenix Suns cannot afford to have their frontcourt players who can't shoot (Bo Outlaw, Jake Tsakalidis, and maybe even Jake Voskuhl and Amare Stoudemire) in the game together. They need to put Scott Williams and/or Tom Gugliotta in. When those other guys are in the game opposing defenses pack in the middle and dare people to shoot from outside.
More than anything this team needs a decent center who can shoot decently from 10-15 feet out.
Joe Mama
I would be willing to bet that if we went back and watched tape on all of the Suns losses two-thirds of them were because they were stifled by a zone defense during some part of the game. I know a good zone defense is difficult to score against even when you know what you're doing. However the Phoenix Suns look clueless every time they see it.
One more thing... when Stephon Marbury and/or Shawn Marion are struggling with their outside shots the Phoenix Suns cannot afford to have their frontcourt players who can't shoot (Bo Outlaw, Jake Tsakalidis, and maybe even Jake Voskuhl and Amare Stoudemire) in the game together. They need to put Scott Williams and/or Tom Gugliotta in. When those other guys are in the game opposing defenses pack in the middle and dare people to shoot from outside.
More than anything this team needs a decent center who can shoot decently from 10-15 feet out.
Joe Mama
I think he is still under contract with NY?Originally posted by elindholm
More than anything this team needs a decent center who can shoot decently from 10-15 feet out.
Any chance of luring Luc Longley out of retirement?
Chaz
observationist
you had to bring up Luc Longley? Thanks alot!
I am not happy with Frank Johnson.
I say pick a starting 5 and stick with them. Pick the next best 4 or 5 off the bench and rotate them in. You cannot have players playing 30 min then DNP then 20 min etc... Players want to know what their role is.
We complain about a consistant effort. How about a consistent rotation?
1. Marbury
2. Hardaway
3. Marion
4. Stoudemire
5. Tsakalidis
6. Johnson
7. Outlaw
8. Voskul
9. Gugliotta
10. Langhi
11. Jacobsen
12. Williams
I am not happy with Frank Johnson.
I say pick a starting 5 and stick with them. Pick the next best 4 or 5 off the bench and rotate them in. You cannot have players playing 30 min then DNP then 20 min etc... Players want to know what their role is.
We complain about a consistant effort. How about a consistent rotation?
1. Marbury
2. Hardaway
3. Marion
4. Stoudemire
5. Tsakalidis
6. Johnson
7. Outlaw
8. Voskul
9. Gugliotta
10. Langhi
11. Jacobsen
12. Williams
I would have to change that up a little bit.
1. Marbury
2. Johnson
3. Marion
4. Stoudemire
5. Tsakalidis
6. Hardaway (Will move into starting soon)
7. Voskul
8. Langhi
9/10. Outlaw
9/10. Gugliotta
11. Jacobsen
12. Williams
1. Marbury
2. Johnson
3. Marion
4. Stoudemire
5. Tsakalidis
6. Hardaway (Will move into starting soon)
7. Voskul
8. Langhi
9/10. Outlaw
9/10. Gugliotta
11. Jacobsen
12. Williams
I haven't posted for a while, but have read almost everything here for months. The problems the Suns have are numerous and I agree with about all of your guys thoughts. I have a couple of others, too.
1. Get into position to rebound the ball. With Marion, Penny, Langhi, Googs, and others (Williams) there are obviously a lot of jump shots going up. The Suns are never in the right place. Don't the majority of shots come off the weak side? Marion has to take 8-10 baseline/wing shots a game, yet the Suns rarely have a player on the weak side to attempt to get a rebound.
I remember reading a story about Rodman before he was completely insane, just mildly insane, and he said he always tries to get in the position that allows him to get to the most balls. Why don't any of the Suns players do this? Don't they pick up on this when watching film/scouting?
2. Run a play other than pick and roll with the other 3 guys waiting to pick if the first one doesn't work. The Suns look like a bad rec. team. Whatever happened to Penny on the block?
3. I know it's been said to death, but, SHAWN---GO TO THE BASKET!!!!!! I agree with Chris on his thoughts. But the Mercury ain't risin' when it comes to Shawn.
This is off the point, but did anyone catch the HBO Bryant Gumbel show that had the story on Darryl Dawkins? The Suns should bring him in. We could all use a little more Lovetron in our lives, couldn't we. Seriously, he started coaching about 5-6 years ago for the Winnipeg Cyclones in the IBA. His team came into my town to play our team and he really seemed to be quite a teacher working with the young guys. HBO had a pretty good story, imagine Chocolate Thunder and the Barkley on the same practice floor
Loved the old unis.........keep 'em.
Brad
1. Get into position to rebound the ball. With Marion, Penny, Langhi, Googs, and others (Williams) there are obviously a lot of jump shots going up. The Suns are never in the right place. Don't the majority of shots come off the weak side? Marion has to take 8-10 baseline/wing shots a game, yet the Suns rarely have a player on the weak side to attempt to get a rebound.
I remember reading a story about Rodman before he was completely insane, just mildly insane, and he said he always tries to get in the position that allows him to get to the most balls. Why don't any of the Suns players do this? Don't they pick up on this when watching film/scouting?
2. Run a play other than pick and roll with the other 3 guys waiting to pick if the first one doesn't work. The Suns look like a bad rec. team. Whatever happened to Penny on the block?
3. I know it's been said to death, but, SHAWN---GO TO THE BASKET!!!!!! I agree with Chris on his thoughts. But the Mercury ain't risin' when it comes to Shawn.
This is off the point, but did anyone catch the HBO Bryant Gumbel show that had the story on Darryl Dawkins? The Suns should bring him in. We could all use a little more Lovetron in our lives, couldn't we. Seriously, he started coaching about 5-6 years ago for the Winnipeg Cyclones in the IBA. His team came into my town to play our team and he really seemed to be quite a teacher working with the young guys. HBO had a pretty good story, imagine Chocolate Thunder and the Barkley on the same practice floor
Loved the old unis.........keep 'em.
Brad
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
What this team needs is a coach. When I say coach, I really mean "Coach", you know, the one who knows what a rotation is, what consistant minutes mean, when to call timeouts, how to adjust his defense or offense at any given time in the game.
I've been saying this since FJ took over- he is not a coach, he is nothing but another wanna-be. Dump the idiot this offseason, and go after some real coaches- Mike Dunleavy or Jeff Van Gundy.
You can not expect players to be consistant if you don't give them consistant minutes. You just can not give Googs 22 minutes one night, and 3 minutes the next night. You can't play Jake for 5 minutes a game and expect to improve. Find an eight or nine man rotation and play that rotation every night.
Marbury, Hardaway, Marion, Stoudemire, Tsakalidis, Johnson, Outlaw, Voskhul. (the first rotation I could think of, you can take somebody out and out somebody else in if you want, that's not the point, the point is that you have to have a rotation.)
I am also sick and tired of Shawn Marion. As somebody pointed out, if Marion had just a little bit of Marbury's heart he would be an MVP material. I am sick of a non shooter standing around the perimetar shooting jumpers. Might as well have Stephon Marbury posting up Shaquile O'Neal and Yao Ming.
Two people I don't want to see next year are Frank Johnson and Shawn Marion, and possibly Tom Googliota.
I've been saying this since FJ took over- he is not a coach, he is nothing but another wanna-be. Dump the idiot this offseason, and go after some real coaches- Mike Dunleavy or Jeff Van Gundy.
You can not expect players to be consistant if you don't give them consistant minutes. You just can not give Googs 22 minutes one night, and 3 minutes the next night. You can't play Jake for 5 minutes a game and expect to improve. Find an eight or nine man rotation and play that rotation every night.
Marbury, Hardaway, Marion, Stoudemire, Tsakalidis, Johnson, Outlaw, Voskhul. (the first rotation I could think of, you can take somebody out and out somebody else in if you want, that's not the point, the point is that you have to have a rotation.)
I am also sick and tired of Shawn Marion. As somebody pointed out, if Marion had just a little bit of Marbury's heart he would be an MVP material. I am sick of a non shooter standing around the perimetar shooting jumpers. Might as well have Stephon Marbury posting up Shaquile O'Neal and Yao Ming.
Two people I don't want to see next year are Frank Johnson and Shawn Marion, and possibly Tom Googliota.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
I agree Joe, but I think the Suns have a center who can shoot from 10- 15 feet. Jake Tsakalidis could make those jumpers if he was ever in the game long enough to find his rhytm.
Before you all attack me, understand that I am not saying Tsakalidis is a great shooter. Yes, I'd rather have Peja Drobnjak, Reaf LaFrenz, or Wang, but I think Jake could do a decent job if he was given minutes.
I agree with you SirStefan32. Jake needs minutes and he has shown(Last Year) that with the time he can be good center. If we wanted a shooter we would be using Googs at the center spot. Which what was the idea when he was going to come back but Frank has not even let that happen. I was not into the Frank Bashing but know I see every game were he is just not paying attention to what is going on in the game. And Suns lack of free throw shooting and piss pour rebounding that is coaching and practice not individual skills. I will give Frank till the end of the year if nothing can be done about this horrible team play.
Chaplin
Better off silent
I also think Jake could be a decent center, but a good shooter? I have trouble accepting that right now. He needs to improve his hands and his defensive positioning. Other than that, I'm really liking his little jump hook and he is most definitely a good body.
But he needs to be used correctly.
But he needs to be used correctly.
zett
Hall of Famer
we are 0-2 in retro uni's lets quit while were not to far behind! and we also need to save our ring of honor for preseason games as we suck on those nights also...
OP
OP
JS22
Say Vandelay!
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You're wrong. We beat Mil. in the first retro game.
