Offseason Restructure and overhaul

[THESMEL]

their are some sore thumbs sticking out there on the Cardinals regardless of the Niners game, the CBA, and lockout. Graves should be out of here, we need a team supervisor, And as a contract man He has only signed drafted Cardinals AW, DD, Fitz since Whiz has been here. Graves is to be held accountable for exSteeler busts, Hadnot getting more than Deuce and lyle, just plain no backbone at all with Denny Green and Ken Whisenhunt.
Can you see Bill Polian acting like Graves?

Whiz's grand restructering scheme PGC and RGC has failed utterly and completely. Maybe it needs more time? Going forward what experienced Pass Game Coordinators or Run Game Coordinators can we interview for hire, None-0-zippo! We need to get back to fundementals, We suck at the basics. We have no great football educator on this team like Pete Carrol. We have Grimms son learning and Growing and another coaches son doing the same.

Grimm would be a great OC if Whiz would stay out of his playcalling. I have to beleive that Grimm has the will to run and stick to the principle of a balanced offense. Oline, AST HC, RGC coach titles would have to be surrendered but hey, its easy to throw out crap after an inventory. or you could pile it in the corner and try to ignore the stench. But I think Grimms out of here, there is gonna be huge coaching turnover not just HC. Whiz needs to get em while the fires hot.

DC Bill Davis has produced turnovers in this go for int/fumble forget about the tackle defense. but has not stopped the worse teams consistantly or ever. See NFCW for wose NFL teams. we have to be approaching records of futility on yards and scores allowed over the last 3-4 years? We are big play defense, it worked well when Warner only gave up 4 turnovers to the opponents 5 in a game. WE need a fundementaslly sound educating DC.

There is many reasons to fire Ken Whisenhunt this year. He has underperformed already fired and soon to be fired Head Coachs. I beleive in continuity and consistantcy and want him to stay. I don't want him to have complete control of personell and operations anymore. He has fell on his face, and really sucks at it. I hope he hires some real help not just yes men.

player wise best thing we can have is replacement players. Whiz has screwed up every draft and personell decision for years to come. With great power comes great stupidity. We have no Premium OLBs ready to step in for our grandmama exsteelers, Its been premium for 5 years or longer, Chike and Berry just left last year. No proven QB much less top quality QBafter cutting Matt, for crackerjack secret prize decoder reasons.
There is no excuse for not securing the talent that took us to our first SB and playoffs runs.

Some will walk but Fitz is up again next year, if there is a next year. DD is decent playing for a contract but He disappears after he gets one, always has, I know his career I've watched every NFL snap of it. He is the best in spurts, when he chooses but He aint no Reggie White or dominate force everydown.

AW is a 30 year old SS he has to change his body and give up thump for quickness and speed. either that or accept a role cause He's not an everydown strong safety this year. I like him but that is true. This is not a experimental labortory for Whiz's ifootball nnsanity.

We are the Arizona Cardinal Football Club, And We have been here before thse coach's and players and will be be after them. in Bill Bidwill I trust, He cuts the checks. and he cares about the Arizona Cardinals. win lose or draw till death do they part. Just Like Charles Bidwill.

 

[conraddobler]

No way you fire Whiz this year, no way in heck.

I want to see what the guy is made of this offseason, I want to see how he reponds to being kicked in the groin.

I was so flippin mad about the way he handled the whole QB preseason fiasco but even I felt sorry for him later on in the year and the team too.

So now the halo is off, muds on the face and he should be steaming inside, good, can he pickup himself and figure out what the heck they all did wrong and fix it?

We shall see.

 

[slanidrac16]

I can live with one down year BUT,

First and foremost we need to solve our qb dilema. Whether Skelton is the QBOF or not, we CANNOT head into next season with the 3 Qb's on this roster next year. This is a QB league and we've seen the results of not having one. Bring in a competent veteran to compete with Skelton. Skelton may very well be able to step up and lead this team, however, even if he is and he were to get injured we'd be screwed. The team does not believe in DA and ax Hall is not the answer. We need to bring in a guy that the players will believe in.

Second, we need an OC. The way we operated this year just doesn't work. We need a CO-ORDINATOR. Someone who takes all the parts and puts it all together. We don't and shouldn't settle for an apprentice.

Third, whether Bill Davis remains the DC or not doesn't change the needs on defense. A pure pass rushing DE/OLB would free up Campbell to move and create havoc for any given situation or at the very least replace Porter. Add to that a run stuffing ILB and we would be an improved defense.

We have a level of talent on this team that is better than 5-11 or 6-10. It's assinine to think we should blow up the whole operation, but that doesn't mean stand pat either.

 

[THESMEL]

yea

That is what i said too. But I want to see some aggresive structural and staff changes starting with Rod Graves. Graves is a yes man, a Bidwill contract man, but He is not a boss. Whiz needs a boss. He has screwed up football operations, personell and structure. He needs reigned in and reorientated to his original hiring. Graves is not the man to do this.

I like Rod, think He's a good man but there is no excuse for the lack of signing drafted Cards players long term after the SB/playoff run. None. There is no excuse for cutting Matt and keeping Max. none. there is no excuse for taking those risks in the draft after our success. none. We have the same problems under Whiz we had under Denny. And that points to GM.

There is alot of work to be done but that work needs lead by a strong voice and a large hammer in the front office.

Here is a good read for comparison
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-forbesnflgms082610

and another with prospects
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80d9b253&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Marty Schottenheimer is featured and available, Parcells?

The first question that needs to be answered is this: What type of leader do you want? A guy with experience that comes in with a proven plan? A younger person with less experience but new and fresh ideas? Someone closer to the age of the owner who can relate to the boss? Someone who can recruit the best coach possible? A man who really knows the talent floating around the country in the draft and on the free-agent market? How about a guy from one of the smart, business-minded franchises that makes the owner more money while still providing a winning team? Getting the right person for the job is complex, but a number of teams will be looking to this list for the perfect fit.

and another with projections
http://blog.playmakermobile.com/blog/2010/07/future-nfl-gms-todays-best-frontoffice-guys.html

and HMMM same skill set as Graves?
Steve Keim: Director of Player Personnel, Arizona Cardinals: Boasting a similar resume of the Eagles Grigson, Keim was a 4 year starter and captain during his playing career at NC State. Keim’s draft room influence has played a key role in the Cardinals rise to the upper echelon of the NFL. His commanding presence and draft room acumen have resulted in 2nd round steals like Anquan Boldin and Karlos Dansby as well as 3rd round gems like Adrian Wilson and Darnell Dockett. With people skills to match, Keim’s eye for talent is outstanding and the single biggest reason for the Cardinals recent success.

No way you fire Whiz this year, no way in heck.

I want to see what the guy is made of this offseason, I want to see how he reponds to being kicked in the groin.

I was so flippin mad about the way he handled the whole QB preseason fiasco but even I felt sorry for him later on in the year and the team too.

So now the halo is off, muds on the face and he should be steaming inside, good, can he pickup himself and figure out what the heck they all did wrong and fix it?

We shall see.

 

[THESMEL]

Ok

I still don't see us going to the SB next year or beyond with those changes, if we only needed a QB i would agree, But Cody Brown being snagged by the Jets #1 defense, after we cut him, Even Popes heading to the playoffs replacing Tony Gonzales for heavens sake!

Leinart will start for somebody else, Qb's are difficult to find. Hint hint!
Looks like We need another RB, but we don't we have a great young tandom we haven't even used yet, and a dynamic 3rd down ST 3rd string.

The waste of talent, FA money and draft picks is appalling, We are broken all over the field and in the clubhouse also. sometimes i think I have an alternative dimension recording on my DVR. I just don't see what other fans see, i'm an optimist by nature but a realist by experience.

I've seen Leroy Kelly carry the Browns for 10 years with my own eyes, and Beanies better, THT aint. He a great role player, lineman in the backfield and receiver Maybe, how can you tell Beanie catches the ball from WR, I've only seen 1 catchable pass Beanie dropped in 2 years.

If Michael Bidwill doesn't get aggressive this extended offseason, If He lets this ride another yearv we'll be a decade backwards again, If were not already! Nobody is signed man. fitz is up after next year, AW and DD are leading the most dynamic playmaking defense in years, as they give record uards and points doing it.

I want changew from the top down. Major visionary change not window dressing or same staff different faces. like clancy and Davis!

I can live with one down year BUT,

First and foremost we need to solve our qb dilema. Whether Skelton is the QBOF or not, we CANNOT head into next season with the 3 Qb's on this roster next year. This is a QB league and we've seen the results of not having one. Bring in a competent veteran to compete with Skelton. Skelton may very well be able to step up and lead this team, however, even if he is and he were to get injured we'd be screwed. The team does not believe in DA and ax Hall is not the answer. We need to bring in a guy that the players will believe in.

Second, we need an OC. The way we operated this year just doesn't work. We need a CO-ORDINATOR. Someone who takes all the parts and puts it all together. We don't and shouldn't settle for an apprentice.

Third, whether Bill Davis remains the DC or not doesn't change the needs on defense. A pure pass rushing DE/OLB would free up Campbell to move and create havoc for any given situation or at the very least replace Porter. Add to that a run stuffing ILB and we would be an improved defense.

We have a level of talent on this team that is better than 5-11 or 6-10. It's assinine to think we should blow up the whole operation, but that doesn't mean stand pat either.

 

[Mulli]

The person who started this thread is insane.

Insane definition:

Lack of clear thinking.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The person who started this thread is insane.

Insane definition:

Lack of clear thinking.

Not to mention, that the grammar gives one a migraine.

 

[THESMEL]

wholeness

wholeness of mind, actually is Sanity.

so I'm a so and so, any thoughts on overhaul compared to tinkering this offseason?

Should we just try making Mike miller the Run Game Coordinator, and Russ Grimm the pass game coordinator and call it good.

strap it up and keep snapping.

The person who started this thread is insane.

Insane definition:

Lack of clear thinking.

 

[joeshmo]

But Cody Brown being snagged by the Jets #1 defense, after we cut him, Even Popes heading to the playoffs replacing Tony Gonzales for heavens sake!

Jets are not #1 defense in either yards or points. In fact they are sitting @ #11 in points allowed, and Cody Brown was not snagged up to actually play for them he has been sitting in obscurity on their practice squad. Pope did not replace Gonzales, he held the spot open with 20 catches on a 4 win team last year as a holding spot for their current starting rookie TE Moaeki.

 

[THESMEL]

I stand corrected

good points, I apoligise to all the lil pygmies on the Cardinals sideline.
I'm sure they were both cheaper to those teams than they were to us.
pretty common really, but who do we have in development that other teams cut because of salary.
I mean besides DA, Hadnot, Porter, Faneca and Haggins?
We got Bridges and I like me some Bridges, He has been a great Cardinal a good pro for fair wages.

Jets are not #1 defense in either yards or points. In fact they are sitting @ #11 in points allowed, and Cody Brown was not snagged up to actually play for them he has been sitting in obscurity on their practice squad. Pope did not replace Gonzales, he held the spot open with 20 catches on a 4 win team last year as a holding spot for their current starting rookie TE Moaeki.

 

[vinnymac]

The Nfl will continue in 2011 even if a cba isn't reached. Every Nfl team is preparing a scab team in the offseason. just like they did in the 80's. So I am not worried about not watching football next season. The do need a new OC and Dc. Everyone can agree with that. Plus release Timmy Hightower. That should improve the team a whole bunch.

 

[Catfish]

Mulli and Canuk, you are being pretty harsh on a guy that is making a lot of sense.

He is asking for Whiz to give up play calling-----someting most of us have been calling for. He believes Grimm would make a good OC provided Whiz stays out of his way. He may be right in that respect.

He also says that Grimm will probably be gone-----yet another solid assumption, due to all the HC positions coming open after this year.

He is asking for a change to a DC whose philosophy is to contain and wrap-up. A whole new concept that flies in the face of the big-hit, big turnover style of Billy Davis. Its not spectacular, merely control the line of scrimmage with gap control, and wrap-up the ball carrier and bring him down. Forcing three-and-outs is not spectacular, but is very effective compared to our sell-out style of hit and separate from the ball. It is also far more likely to occur than the spectacular play is. An added bonus would be fewer penalties to us due to illegal hits because of our sell-out style of play.

He is calling for ownership to bring in a strong GM who trumps ALL the coaches, as opposed to Graves being subserviant to Whiz and his whims. This really makes sense to me, and I believe it to be imperative if we are to go forward with any modicum of success.

This is simply a return to a more conventional form of football, and one that has been successful for ages. A return to team play, as opposed to spectacular individual performances which look great when they work, but which carry the added penalty of failure to the emph degree when they dont.

I find little fault with that reasoning.

 

[oaken1]

Mulli and Canuk, you are being pretty harsh on a guy that is making a lot of sense.

He is asking for Whiz to give up play calling-----someting most of us have been calling for. He believes Grimm would make a good OC provided Whiz stays out of his way. He may be right in that respect.

He also says that Grimm will probably be gone-----yet another solid assumption, due to all the HC positions coming open after this year.

He is asking for a change to a DC whose philosophy is to contain and wrap-up. A whole new concept that flies in the face of the big-hit, big turnover style of Billy Davis. Its not spectacular, merely control the line of scrimmage with gap control, and wrap-up the ball carrier and bring him down. Forcing three-and-outs is not spectacular, but is very effective compared to our sell-out style of hit and separate from the ball. It is also far more likely to occur than the spectacular play is. An added bonus would be fewer penalties to us due to illegal hits because of our sell-out style of play.

He is calling for ownership to bring in a strong GM who trumps ALL the coaches, as opposed to Graves being subserviant to Whiz and his whims. This really makes sense to me, and I believe it to be imperative if we are to go forward with any modicum of success.

This is simply a return to a more conventional form of football, and one that has been successful for ages. A return to team play, as opposed to spectacular individual performances which look great when they work, but which carry the added penalty of failure to the emph degree when they dont.

I find little fault with that reasoning.

Thanks for taking the time to interpret the Smelanese, that was how I understood it as well,......and I agree.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Mulli and Canuk, you are being pretty harsh on a guy that is making a lot of sense.

He is asking for Whiz to give up play calling-----someting most of us have been calling for. He believes Grimm would make a good OC provided Whiz stays out of his way. He may be right in that respect.

He also says that Grimm will probably be gone-----yet another solid assumption, due to all the HC positions coming open after this year.

He is asking for a change to a DC whose philosophy is to contain and wrap-up. A whole new concept that flies in the face of the big-hit, big turnover style of Billy Davis. Its not spectacular, merely control the line of scrimmage with gap control, and wrap-up the ball carrier and bring him down. Forcing three-and-outs is not spectacular, but is very effective compared to our sell-out style of hit and separate from the ball. It is also far more likely to occur than the spectacular play is. An added bonus would be fewer penalties to us due to illegal hits because of our sell-out style of play.

He is calling for ownership to bring in a strong GM who trumps ALL the coaches, as opposed to Graves being subserviant to Whiz and his whims. This really makes sense to me, and I believe it to be imperative if we are to go forward with any modicum of success.

This is simply a return to a more conventional form of football, and one that has been successful for ages. A return to team play, as opposed to spectacular individual performances which look great when they work, but which carry the added penalty of failure to the emph degree when they dont.

I find little fault with that reasoning.

My apologies to Mr. T, and thanks for taking the time to decipher the Enigma code.

 

[Mulli]

Mulli and Canuk, you are being pretty harsh on a guy that is making a lot of sense.

He is asking for Whiz to give up play calling-----someting most of us have been calling for. He believes Grimm would make a good OC provided Whiz stays out of his way. He may be right in that respect.

He also says that Grimm will probably be gone-----yet another solid assumption, due to all the HC positions coming open after this year.

He is asking for a change to a DC whose philosophy is to contain and wrap-up. A whole new concept that flies in the face of the big-hit, big turnover style of Billy Davis. Its not spectacular, merely control the line of scrimmage with gap control, and wrap-up the ball carrier and bring him down. Forcing three-and-outs is not spectacular, but is very effective compared to our sell-out style of hit and separate from the ball. It is also far more likely to occur than the spectacular play is. An added bonus would be fewer penalties to us due to illegal hits because of our sell-out style of play.

He is calling for ownership to bring in a strong GM who trumps ALL the coaches, as opposed to Graves being subserviant to Whiz and his whims. This really makes sense to me, and I believe it to be imperative if we are to go forward with any modicum of success.

This is simply a return to a more conventional form of football, and one that has been successful for ages. A return to team play, as opposed to spectacular individual performances which look great when they work, but which carry the added penalty of failure to the emph degree when they dont.

I find little fault with that reasoning.

I think he said Grimm would make a good OC.

 

[cgolden]

Not to mention, that the grammar gives one a migraine.

I'm glad someone said it. I don't care how valid someone's point is if it's written like this. It's impossible to read this all the way through without developing a maddening headache.

 

[cgolden]

Mulli and Canuk, you are being pretty harsh on a guy that is making a lot of sense.

He is asking for Whiz to give up play calling-----someting most of us have been calling for. He believes Grimm would make a good OC provided Whiz stays out of his way. He may be right in that respect.

He also says that Grimm will probably be gone-----yet another solid assumption, due to all the HC positions coming open after this year.

He is asking for a change to a DC whose philosophy is to contain and wrap-up. A whole new concept that flies in the face of the big-hit, big turnover style of Billy Davis. Its not spectacular, merely control the line of scrimmage with gap control, and wrap-up the ball carrier and bring him down. Forcing three-and-outs is not spectacular, but is very effective compared to our sell-out style of hit and separate from the ball. It is also far more likely to occur than the spectacular play is. An added bonus would be fewer penalties to us due to illegal hits because of our sell-out style of play.

He is calling for ownership to bring in a strong GM who trumps ALL the coaches, as opposed to Graves being subserviant to Whiz and his whims. This really makes sense to me, and I believe it to be imperative if we are to go forward with any modicum of success.

This is simply a return to a more conventional form of football, and one that has been successful for ages. A return to team play, as opposed to spectacular individual performances which look great when they work, but which carry the added penalty of failure to the emph degree when they dont.

I find little fault with that reasoning.

Going for the ball instead of pure form tackling isn't a Billy Davis thing, it's a league wide problem. Every single game I've watched the past couple of years is full of guys trying to strip the ball instead of take down the ball carrier. Hell listen to any NFL analyst when they talk about talking and you always here that the tackling is terrible in the league. Everyone wants highlight hits and forced fumbles, not plain and simple form tackles.

 

[Garthshort]

We've needed (due to injuries) OLBs, and Cody Brown was there for the signing. The fact that the team looked elsewhere tells you a lot.

 

[Catfish]

I think he said Grimm would make a good OC.

I just don't get it Mulli-----Thesmel put up a great post with many, many valid points, and you counter with a single point about Grimm being OC material. Of course, you hold that remark in ad-nauseum, yet there is at least a 50-50 chance that he is right about that too, as no one knows whether or not Grimm is capable. Thesmel is as apt to be right as you are.

Further, he talks about the tremendous need for a solid GM, and this is probably the biggest need with this entire organization. The Cardinals have spent a great deal on receivers, yet really good receivers can be had relatively cheaply by comparison.

We pay Fitz mega bucks, yet he hardly ever worked out with Skelton at all this year. No wonder Skelton has a hard time throwing to him. Skelton delivered most of his completions to those with whom he worked during the off season, and during his practice during the season. THat is where his comfort zone is. Fitz was first team in practice, and Skelton did not practice with him until the Kansas CIty game, incidently long after our season had been determined. He has much more work with Rogers during the course of the year and it shows in games. We could have kept all of Fitz's money this year, and it would have hardly made a difference. He really made little difference this whole year as a receiver.

Smel is right about the need for prioritizing WHERE we spend our money. Bill Polian, (the most successful GM in the game), says to allocate the most money to 4 positions. QB which is obvious. CB which is imperative in a passing league. OT because they are charged with countering the speed rushers of the league. Rush-Linebackers, or DE's also fall into this category. I would add C to that mix, because he is the anchor of every offensive line. You do not want one who is not strong enough to keep from being pushed out of position, or who is not savy in calling pass protection, as you don't want unblocked defenders getting at your QB.

Receivers become priceless, not just because they are good, but because they have a comfort factor with their QB. Fitz's fit with the Cards QB's this year is a perfect example of this. DA was hardly ever able to connect with him. Max and Skeleton hardly ever saw him as open. Ultimately Fitz made little contribution to this team, (at least compared to his cost), this year. I am not saying it is Fitz's fault, it is just what happens when the receiver and QB do not get a huge amount of work during the year together.

Running Backs, Linebackers, Guards, and Safeties are available all over this league. They are numerous and not nearly as costly as the previously mentioned positions. Having a GM who knows WHERE to allocate big money is as important as having one who knows how to keep a coaching staff in line, or one that is adept in contract negotiations. In my estimation, Smel makes great points of these arguments, and I wholeheartedly agree with the areas that we need to address this next off season. Failure to do so WILL set this team back years. We are not too far removed, (talent wise), from playoff contention as of yet. If we fall farther behind though, it will take long years of futility just to get back to where we are now.