Ok, Let's Start The Serious Football Talk

[Cbus cardsfan]

i agree with Donald on two thing. First,we will score. We have scored on everyone except that snow game. This week will be no different. I tried telling that to Eagle fans last week and they thought i was crazy by the Giants couldn't score . Secondly, the due theory works. Right before Akers lined up for his 2nd FG i said he's due to miss,result,wide right,no good.

 

[SteelCityMom]

Yep, going to be an exciting game I think.

Some GREAT players on both sides will be on the field. Hines, Troy, AW, Fitz, Boldin, Warner, Ben....it surely is star studded.

How many probowlers are in this game? We have 5 on our end.

Here's to an injury free game, decided by play on the field, not by bad calls.

I'm very excited. VERY EXCITED.

Yes I'm pretty excited as well, I can't believe it's only Friday...Feb. 1 can't get here soon enough!

We've only got 3 probowlers this year(Troy,Harrison and Farrior), all on defense, though if you were to ask me, there were quite a few guys who got snubbed on our defense as well. Of course, I can't feel too bad seeing as how Kerri Collins (the 2nd alternate) will be filling in for Favre over Rivers (1st alternate). Something is wrong in pro-bowl land lol. Did Warner make it in? I couldn't remember...it's a travesty if he didn't.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to a great game as well and agree about the refs, I hope they just let them play and don't interfere too much. The way this seasons gone though, I'm not sure that hoping will be enough for them lol. They give me heartburn for sure.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I'd also argue that the Cards defense was really only successful against the Eagles O for the first half, it was enough to win the game, but they did score 18 points very quickly against the Cards D. .

They did do that but it was pretty flukey the way they scored. On one they converted 3rd and 19.The other, the 62 yard pass play was right in DRC's hands and he's going to make that int 90% of the time. This time it bounced around and ended up in Jackson's arms for a TD. I'm not taking credit away from Philly,they converted, but those two plays are an unlikely occurance.

 

[SteelCityMom]

They did do that but it was pretty flukey the way they scored. On one they converted 3rd and 19.The other, the 62 yard pass play was right in DRC's hands and he's going to make that int 90% of the time. This time it bounced around and ended up in Jackson's arms for a TD. I'm not taking credit away from Philly,they converted, but those two plays are an unlikely occurance.

I can understand that, and I really didn't see the third quarter or how the Eagles scored (was trying to get dinner done before the Steelers came on) all I knew is it was 24-6 at the half (a great half by the Cards, they played unbelievably well) and then when I came back the Eagles had somehow flipped the tables.

I definitely know how those type of "flukey" games feel though, we've had a couple of those this year as well.

 

[joeshmo]

When Cards are on Defense – Pitt’s pass protection is horrid. They allow 1 sack for every 10 pass attempts, one of the worst in the league. Make them pay for it. I am looking at you Laboy. You said in a article yesterday that you feel as fresh as you did coming out of training camp because you have only played 5-10 snaps the last 5 games, lets hope that translates to your success the first part of the season because you Laboy can wreck absolute havoc on their OT’s if you play like you did the beginning of the season. But keep Ben in the pocket when you do it or have super sticky coverage longer then 3 seconds, he makes his best throws when he runs out of the pocket. Continue slapping the ball out of the QB’s hands like we have been doing because Ben will fumble it if he is still in the pocket. Continue the team defense concept of gap control like we have been doing the last 4 games and we can stop Willie Parker, just like Turner, Williams, and Westbrook. Limit the big play that they live on, which they usually get when Ben is outside the pocket.

When Cards are on Offense – At minimum chip block Woodley and Harrison on every pass play. You don’t have to double team them each time like you would with other QB’s because Warner’s quick release just needs an extra second, so like I said at least chip block both of them each passing down. But on the long routes that need more time to set up, its time to double both of them. Interior line you better be up to the challenge of blocking one on one because of that extra attention to the outside, and have your head on a swivel for the stunts. Continue the 50-50 pass to run ratio like the last 4 games. Even if we only get 3 yards a pop it keeps the D honest, and makes our Passing game more explosive. They hit hard, deal with it just don’t let it intimidate you (easier said then done).

It really is the same formula as the other games. Make fewer mistakes, create turnovers, limit penalties. Just like I said the last game if we win or even tie the turnover battle we win.

 

[WildBB]

That's true Joe. The Burghers enter games with a heavyweight match mentality. You need to take their best shots at the start of the first and second halves and then counter, Smash, counter, Smash.

On D just hustle and have you head on a swivel for Roeth. Don't overpursue. And do like they're going to try to do to Warner.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

We need to get BR on the ground. He's a big,strong guy and i seem to remember him shaking off the Cards rushers quite a few times in last years game. Hopefully, the Cards learned from that.

 

[LukesDad88]

Thanks for the warm greetings. As to the Pittsburgh's offense, alot of it is going to come down to Arians, our OC. This guy drives me nuts. One game he'll be pretty decent, the next, not so much. If he continues going with the two tight end spread formations, and trying to run the ball and it doesn't work, he's got to make adjustments. Normally, I hate that formation in most of our games, but I do think it might have success against your D. If it doesn't, he needs to revert back to the I or split I. He doesn't like to do that. We'll have to see. As for Ben being "due" for abad game, he's also "due" for a stellar game. Yes, Ben has 2-3 really bad games a year. He also typically has 2-3 breakout games a year, and the rest normally looks like what we've seen so far through the playoffs. It could go either way, IMO. Especially depending on how Arians handles Parker and the running game. Another consideration is that Ben's been injured the whole season, and is just now getting back up to speed. Something that I've seen that has me excited is that usually his long ball comes up short, leaving the receivers having to come back to the ball. The last two games, however, he's been right on target, or even overthrowing the long ball (probably because the receivers aren't used to seeing them go that far and fast, and hadn't made their adjustments yet). If Ward is healthy enough to play, at least those 12-14 yard slants and hooks he excells at, I can see Nate Washington having a big game on those long balls. If Ward can't go, and Washington has to run Ward's routes, I'm worried about Sweed being the deep guy.

Going back to your #3 receiver, don't worry, Pittsburgh has plenty enough coverage guys . Don't forget, we normally rush four, leaving seven guys out in coverage. There's not going to be alot of strict man to man coverage without having support underneath and overtop. Again, your guys will get your catches. It's the YAC that Pittsburgh's going to be concentrating on stopping.

 

[LVG]

Going back to your #3 receiver, don't worry, Pittsburgh has plenty enough coverage guys . Don't forget, we normally rush four, leaving seven guys out in coverage. There's not going to be alot of strict man to man coverage without having support underneath and overtop. Again, your guys will get your catches. It's the YAC that Pittsburgh's going to be concentrating on stopping.

I'm not too worried about that. The strength of the Cards is our multiple threats on the pass, including: Fitz, Q, & Breaston (those are the three that everyone plans on covering anyway). However, when those guys are covered, we tend to swing Edge / Arrington / Hightower out, or use Pope / Urban on quick slant routes to pick up a fast five yards.

In that way, the Cards have a unique ability - to use our short pass game as a run game. It's been very effective in the past. DBs / LBs have had a problem with covering all of them - as they shift their focus from one set to another, so do we, and as long as we don't focus on the same group, it becomes very hard to stop every WR / TE / RB as they enter the backfield.

This has some limitations though - the primary weakness of using quick passes is the ability for smart DBs and LBs to jump routes - something that I think Pitt will be able to do once they start to see what we're doing. The man I respect most on your team isn't on the field - he's in the box above it, and his name is Dick LeBeau.

 

[LukesDad88]

I'll admit, as well, that what scares me most about the Cards is your coaching staff as well. Not that I buy too much into the whole "Whiz knows your personnel and schemes" It's been a few years, the personnel has changed some, and the schemes have definitely changed. What bothers me is the fact that Whiz is a damn good coach, as is Grimm. In fact, they were my favorites to replace Cowher. Tomlin has done a good job, certainly, and has far exceeded my expectations, but that doesn't negate the fact that Whiz & Grimm are great coaches.

 

[WildBB]

Going back to your #3 receiver, don't worry, Pittsburgh has plenty enough coverage guys . Don't forget, we normally rush four, leaving seven guys out in coverage. There's not going to be alot of strict man to man coverage without having support underneath and overtop. Again, your guys will get your catches. It's the YAC that Pittsburgh's going to be concentrating on stopping.

I don't think any team in the NFL normally rushes four linemen any more. I don't think that your teams m/o either.

 

[D-Dogg]

. The man I respect most on your team isn't on the field - he's in the box above it, and his name is Dick LeBeau.

I agree completely with that!

 

[LVG]

I'll admit, as well, that what scares me most about the Cards is your coaching staff as well. Not that I buy too much into the whole "Whiz knows your personnel and schemes" It's been a few years, the personnel has changed some, and the schemes have definitely changed. What bothers me is the fact that Whiz is a damn good coach, as is Grimm. In fact, they were my favorites to replace Cowher. Tomlin has done a good job, certainly, and has far exceeded my expectations, but that doesn't negate the fact that Whiz & Grimm are great coaches.

I wouldn't buy the idea that we have an advantage on the Steelers because Whiz and Grimm used to coach for them with a penny. It's been two years. Too much has happened.

I do believe that they are good coaches, however, and that this game will probably come down to game plans and coaching.

 

[BCEagle]

Speaking as a 30 year Steeler Fan, I'll admit, the Cards worry me. Warner is on fire, Fitzgerald and Boldin is the best WR tandem in the league (each of them would be star receivers on their own with other teams. Put them together and toss in Warner and wow!), and Hightower is one strong RB (he worries me more than James). Most impressive of all, however, is how your defense (which was filled with talent, but was a group of individuals on their own little island during the season) has learned to play as a complete unit. It's going to be one really tough matchup for the Steelers. I still believe we can pull it off, though. Here's how I see it going down:

Pass Coverage for Steelers:
Fitzgerald is going to make his catches. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter how good the coverage is, if the ball's anywhere near catchable he's coming down with it. Ike Taylor is the Steelers best cover corner. He has shut out some of the best WR's in the game, but he's not going to stop Fitzgerald. Instead, I see LeBeau putting Taylor on Boldin. Taylor can minimize Boldin's impact. McFadden is our other CB in base. I'd put him on Fitzgerald, with Ryan Clark (S) over top. Let Fitzgerald make his incredible catches, but do not let him get YAC. Between Troy, our LB's and Line (yes, we will drop our linemen in coverage, and pretty successfully, too), we should be able to keep your tight ends and RB's from having too much success as well.

Pass Rush for Steelers:
There's alot of confusion about the Steelers' pass rush. Don't be fooled by all of this talk about "Blitzburgh" and how Pittsburgh blitzes more than any other team. This is coming from some in the press that have no idea what the heck they are talking about. Pittsburgh very rarely brings more than four rushers at any one time, however, any time some analysts see a LB or DB coming, they automatically call it a blitz; when on average, they only bring 5 rushers 5-6 times a game, and an allout blitz only once ot twice a season (Greg Easterbrook's TMQ on ESPN has done some pretty good coverage of this, in the past and has a nice breakdown of one example from last Sunday in this week's column). However, there's no telling who those four are going to be on any particular play. I've seen them drop two linemen into coverage and rush one lineman, one LB, and two DB's. LeBeau's had Troy Polamalu line up at NT. Anything goes with these guys. That's the beauty of these formations and athletes, It will be next to impossible for Warner to tell which four are rushing, and which seven are dropping into coverage until after the ball is snapped.

Run Stopping:
As I mentioned before, James doesn't worry me. He and similar backs have rarely posed an issue for our D. Hightower, otoh, is the type of strong back we've had issues with in the past. I could see him having a good day, in the range of 18 carries, 65 yards. What makes our D work so well, in stopping the run and the pass both, is our line. They don't get the numbers like other lines, because in a 3/4, their job is to create the opportunities for the LB's. Casey Hampton (NT) is a monster of a man, he'll take up two on a pass rush, and may as well be a brick wall on rush attempts. Nobody runs it up the middle against him, period. You have to break it to the outside. That means taking on Aaron Smith or Brett Keisel. Smith may be one of the best pure DEs in the game today. He sheds blocks easily, great athleticism, good closing speed, and is smart. If you try running to his side, you're going to have to take it all the way to the sideline to turn the corner, and typically you'll have Troy and one of our LB's waiting for you by the time you get there. Keisel is called "Diesel" because of his strength. He is fantastic at penetration. He will be in your backfield. He is more likely to be responsible for taking the RB's down for a loss than either of the other two linemen. But he's also more susceptable to the draw or misdirection. That's going to be the best way to run it against the Steelers. Don't be expecting big carries, but some nice 4-5 yards here and there on draws and delayed handoffs.

Overall, it's going to come down to patience. How patient can your highpower offense be? You will be able to run the ball some, Fitzgerald will make some catches, but your not going to get those big plays you're used to. It will be a game of yards and field position. If you guys can maintain your patience, you might just walk out of there with your first Lombardi. If you don't...There's going to be a bunch of people in Pottsville, PA smiling and toasting the Steelers with their Yuenglings.

That's what you think. Steeler's owner Dan Ronney owns the rights to the Frankford Yellow Jackets, which was the team that contested the Pottsville Maroons right to play the Notre Dame all-stars on the grounds that it infringed on their territorial rights. That essentially gave the Cardinals the title. Karma, buddy, karma.

 

[LukesDad88]

That's what you think. Steeler's owner Dan Ronney owns the rights to the Frankford Yellow Jackets, which was the team that contested the Pottsville Maroons right to play the Notre Dame all-stars on the grounds that it infringed on their territorial rights. That essentially gave the Cardinals the title. Karma, buddy, karma.

Wow, we have a real Pottsville historian here! Well, I've gotta say, the curse hasn't really hampered the Steelers very much, unless it's kept us from getting 8-9 championships rather than the five we have now. No, I think the curse is pretty much restricted to the Bidwells.

 

[perivolaki]

Another consideration is that Ben's been injured the whole season, and is just now getting back up to speed.

I heard on NFL radio last night that Ben gets hit every 1 1/2 times he throws the ball, by far the most in the NFL.

The radio hosts were saying that ben can't continue to take that kind of puishment or he will have a short career. For what it's worth they said he holds onto the ball to long and he needs to have faster reads and get the ball out quicker.

 

[LukesDad88]

I heard on NFL radio last night that Ben gets hit every 1 1/2 times he throws the ball, by far the most in the NFL.

The radio hosts were saying that ben can't continue to take that kind of puishment or he will have a short career. For what it's worth they said he holds onto the ball to long and he needs to have faster reads and get the ball out quicker.

LOL, it does make every time he drops back pretty interesting.

 

[Brighteyes]

Thanks for the warm greetings. As to the Pittsburgh's offense, alot of it is going to come down to Arians, our OC. This guy drives me nuts. One game he'll be pretty decent, the next, not so much. If he continues going with the two tight end spread formations, and trying to run the ball and it doesn't work, he's got to make adjustments. Normally, I hate that formation in most of our games, but I do think it might have success against your D. If it doesn't, he needs to revert back to the I or split I. He doesn't like to do that. We'll have to see. As for Ben being "due" for abad game, he's also "due" for a stellar game. Yes, Ben has 2-3 really bad games a year. He also typically has 2-3 breakout games a year, and the rest normally looks like what we've seen so far through the playoffs. It could go either way, IMO. Especially depending on how Arians handles Parker and the running game. Another consideration is that Ben's been injured the whole season, and is just now getting back up to speed. Something that I've seen that has me excited is that usually his long ball comes up short, leaving the receivers having to come back to the ball. The last two games, however, he's been right on target, or even overthrowing the long ball (probably because the receivers aren't used to seeing them go that far and fast, and hadn't made their adjustments yet). If Ward is healthy enough to play, at least those 12-14 yard slants and hooks he excells at, I can see Nate Washington having a big game on those long balls. If Ward can't go, and Washington has to run Ward's routes, I'm worried about Sweed being the deep guy.

Going back to your #3 receiver, don't worry, Pittsburgh has plenty enough coverage guys . Don't forget, we normally rush four, leaving seven guys out in coverage. There's not going to be alot of strict man to man coverage without having support underneath and overtop. Again, your guys will get your catches. It's the YAC that Pittsburgh's going to be concentrating on stopping.

Actually, it seems to me that coaching is going to be a big part of this game. Cards have some great players, but I think our coaching has pushed us over the top. Both OC and DC spend a huge amount of time watching game film and drawing new schemes to counter what they see.

I'm not real familiar with the Steelers coaches.

The familiarity with Big Ben could be interesting as well. Not that the plays will be the same from two years ago, but that Whis and Grimm may have some insight into 'tells', the things players do that hint what kind of play is called on the offense, and the strengths and weaknesses of Ben and other players.

For example, you watch the Eagles game carefully, and you can often tell by the foot position and weight distribution of the receivers whether it's a run or a pass. If the receiver is ready to sprint, it's a pass; but often they're actually set ready to push backwards - to defend against the run.

 

[Gaddabout]

I just want to comment on one point; Why is there such a perception that Ben gets rattled? The guy is a flat out gamer. He does take some chances that do not always pay off, but rattled is just not accurate. Chad Pennington gets rattled, Delhomme gets rattled, Ben takes chances and there is a big difference.

I don't think Ben gets rattled, but I do think he can get caught up in himself and what people think of him. It's Marino Syndrome. As I've said in other posts, Whis has successfully been able to get in Ben's head once before. Not saying it will happen again, but that it's not a horrible idea to consider.

When Rothliesberger tries to do too much -- like any QB -- that's when things go really bad for him.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

If you don't...There's going to be a bunch of people in Pottsville, PA smiling and toasting the Steelers with their Yuenglings.

Like it is noted earlier on in the thread. Pottsville broke league rules by playing outside the league. They took all the procedes from the game and kept them. Pretty much Pottsvile decided they wanted money more than a championship. They broke the rules, and I am not about to listen to a bunch of rule breakers whine about a championship they think they deserved. The Cardinals followed all the rules, and didn't play other games for more money. They were given the championship (and if you read up on it they didn't even feel right accepting it). Pottsville wants to break the rules, and hope time will make everyone forget. Those corrupt morons can cry about how thier little town never expanded enough to keep a football team, and continue to hope the squeak wheels gets the grease. I support the Bidwill family with there ability to not back down on this.

Pottsville can take their Yuengling bottle, break off the top, and cram it. I am SO tired of hearing about this.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Great Thread.

A good cup of coffee and some time, it is worth reading the whole thing.

The breakdown of the Steelers defense in the original post is great. I agree 100%. Especially with the fact that Aaron Smith is the best 3-4 DE in the game, no one is close.

I got some points for the Steeler fans:

1. If your team thinks Hightower is more of a threat then James. Then we got you were we want you. James is a beast, and is the perfect RB to go against the Steelers. He rarely loses yards, and finds holes where there are none. Yes, Hightower looks to be running better then James but the numbers and production tells another story. The fans and the Cardinals coaches learned this the hard way during the year. Thank goodness James was returned to the starting position.


2. The Cardinals are NOT a power football team. This is not going to be like Steelers vs. Baltimore, or Steelers vs. Titans. Our team has to start out fast and keep the pedal to the metal. Haley and Warner have the reigns of the offense and they are so aggressive that it is not even funny. Plus any time your team brings the heat (whether they blitz a lot or not) Warner will have a good shot at beating you, that his thing and what makes him successful. Not to mention I would let your player sit in zone coverage cause Warner can pick you apart as well.


3. I am fimiliar with your team. Your secondary is going to have problems handling our WR's. Steve Breaston is a lot better than you would think. Trust me he is a lot better than what Cardinals fans oringally thought, and then he got even better from there.

On that note: Anyone else excited to see what happens when Boldin and Polumalu meet up at some point in the game ? KA-BLAAMM!! I can't wait.

4. A HUGE key to this game will be stopping Pittsburg on 3rd down. The Steelers run the rock, and run it well, but they also have a lot of 3rd down situations. Everytime I see the Steelers, they are most successful passing out of a bunch formation. The Cardinal used to run it a lot when Denny Green was here. Stopping the bunch formation will be a key in this game for the Cardinals.

5. Pass rush. Ugh, Pittsburg's pass rush, and DE's, NT, and OLB's are studs. The Cardinals will have to keep them at bay. Warner will have to be on his game, have a quick release, and have the icy hot ready on the sideline.

As for Pittsburg, this is a bad place for Pittsburg. There is no denying the pass protection for Pittsburg is bad. Not to mention the Cardinals dial up some crazy blitzes, and can afford to do so by putting DRC on Santonio Holmes. A word of advice to the Steelers, DO NOT let the Arizona Cardinals pass ruch get their collective tails up and start to get confident. They can be a handfull when that happens, and they LOVE to cause turnovers.

Keys to the game:

Cardinals:
Stay balanced on offense in order to keep Pittsburg guessing, but stay agressive
Make the Steelers pay when the biltz, and pay badly
Keep Warner upright
On defense, play discpline against the run
Get to Ben and cause turnovers.
DO NOT let up the big play

Steelers:
On offense run the ball effectively
Keep Ben upright, and make sure Ben doesn't hold onto the ball too long.
On defense get to Warner quickly, and force him to make bad throws
Stifle the run
Keep 6 eyes on Fitzgerald.

This game has the makings to be one the best ever played. The media is a bunch of front runner schmucks that don't know jack. This game has all the makings of a nail biter.

But the potential of the game, and what will happen are two different things. If one of the teams don't show up to play, the other has the ability to blow their doors off.

Can't wait!
:claphat:

 

[LVG]

Like it is noted earlier on in the thread. Pottsville broke league rules by playing outside the league. They took all the procedes from the game and kept them. Pretty much Pottsvile decided they wanted money more than a championship. They broke the rules, and I am not about to listen to a bunch of rule breakers whine about a championship they think they deserved. The Cardinals followed all the rules, and didn't play other games for more money. They were given the championship (and if you read up on it they didn't even feel right accepting it). Pottsville wants to break the rules, and hope time will make everyone forget. Those corrupt morons can cry about how thier little town never expanded enough to keep a football team, and continue to hope the squeak wheels gets the grease. I support the Bidwill family with there ability to not back down on this.

Pottsville can take their Yuengling bottle, break off the top, and cram it. I am SO tired of hearing about this.

I wish it was as clear as that, RM.

Pottsville "technically" broke the rules when it violated the League's territorial agreement with the Frankford Yellow Jackets when Pottsville played a game in Philly at the same time the FYJ did.

That game was the Pottsville / Notre Dame game.

What happened is that the league sanctioned the game, and that the team with the best record was supposed to play Notre Dame. The FYJ thought they would play - and it looked like they were, until Pottsville / FYJ played the week before, and PV won, thus giving PV the right to play Notre Dame.

The FYJ then scheduled a game for the same time as the PV/ND game one day after they lost to PV.

The league warned PV to not pay the game, to which PV ignored the League, because they earned the right.

The League then, after the game, stripped PV of it's championship.

 

[LukesDad88]

I don't think any team in the NFL normally rushes four linemen any more. I don't think that your teams m/o either.

I didn't say four linemen, I said four. Those four could be any member of the defense, not just linemen. Typically it's the three linemen and one of the two outside linebackers, but not typically enough to count on it. It is their M/O. As I mentioned, Greg Easterbrook has documented it pretty well in the past.

 

[LVG]

I didn't say four linemen, I said four. Those four could be any member of the defense, not just linemen. Typically it's the three linemen and one of the two outside linebackers, but not typically enough to count on it. It is their M/O. As I mentioned, Greg Easterbrook has documented it pretty well in the past.

That makes the chances of jumping a quick route better, IMO. A quick drop by a DE right into a slant pass route could be an easy INT.

 

[LukesDad88]

My post count isn't high enough for the board to allow me to put up links, but if you go to the main NFL website and look up Anatomy of a Play, they break down the Polamalu INT from sunday. It's a classic example of what I'm talking about. It looks like the Steelers are going to rush five. Aaron Smith is the only one down in his stance. As soon as the play develops, however, Aaron Smith peels off into coverage, leaving two blockers with nobody to block, and the Steeler LB's flying through. The initial confusion kept the tight end into block rather than run a route, freeing Polamalu off of coverage and giving him the latitude to find the play and make it. Harrison pressured Flacco, and the rest is history.

I also watched the breakdown of the flea flicker. Man, your offense is fun!