On the offseason

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I don't know who the guy is believe me. But like people are saying you can't commit to Kyler after last night and his performances in big games, you can't commit to Kliff for the same reason, 3 years of collapses and teams not ready to play. I do like Kliff but I don't think he's a head coach.

I don't know who the guy is but I refuse to believe there's not at least 1 guy out there we can hire who'd be better than Kliff.

I like Kliff but he seems clueless at times, he knows more football than I'll ever know but he just doesn't seem to make adjustments. Seems like he never attacks another team's weakness also. Missing Hopkins is a big deal but the Rams were missing the QB of their defense (Jones) CB # 2 & both starting safeties. Why not attack those areas? He too often goes away from things that work that looks more like a pro offense & goes right back to the spread 10 personnel. Why does he not put Kyler under center more? Where has all his creativity gone he used in 2019? That being said, he deserves another season after getting us to 11 wins but there's a whole lot that needs to change in the off season. Next year's schedule looks brutal on paper & Keim has lots to figure out with the roster. I don't like the scheme VJ runs & something needs to change there imo as well. Finding another head coach isn't always the easiest thing to do but I think Vic Fangio would be a major improvement over VJ, I would almost guarantee he could find the best way to utilize Simmons & Collins. Just one man's opinion.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

They don't have 5 building blocks and this forum thinks Keim is untouchable

He's untouchable because he's buddies with Bidwill. He believes every excuse Keim has on how to fix things. It could take 2 more bad drafts before Bidwill realizes the buddy system isn't working.

 

[slanidrac16]

Allen Robinson is a FA and could be had on a one yr prove it deal. Upgrade over AJ Green
Hopkins, Robinson, Moore. I would kick the tires on Damiere Bird again


Cardinals need better LG and to bring MAxx back

I believe Cedric Wilson is available. He got almost 500 yards and 6 tds playing behind Lamb and Cooper. They also have Gallup.

 

[BigCardsFan]

I would trade Kyler for 3 first round picks and tank next season for a 6'6 alpha QB with a big arm and heart of a lion.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I would trade Kyler for 3 first round picks and tank next season for a 6'6 alpha QB with a big arm and heart of a lion.

No one is gonna give up that much draft capital for Kyler & who is that big 6'6" QB you speak of?

 

[BritCard]

LOL get outta here with them PFF grades, especially with a skittish mobile QB.

Again, you can’t block Von Miller with cap space; who is going to be available for a lower price tag that will be better?

The QB is skittish because Hump is a turnstile. Literally anyone would be better.

Beachum out there would be barely a drop off in ability but cost 1/9th the money.

Beachum had a 70 pass blocking grade vs 65 for Hump.

Before you say "But PFF" I'm using them because they are a numerical representation of what we have all seen with our eyes. Hump has been no better than Beachum. Hump has given up 5 more sacks that DJ and 4 less penalties.

Or is our QB only skittish and mobile for Hump?

I like Hump, but he's also a symbol of what is wrong with this organisation. He doesn't care enough. It's all just a bit laugh. And he has the same issues year after year.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

If last night wasn't depressing enough for us look back at the recent drafts. We have ONE player on the roster from the 2017 draft, Budda, 2 players from 2018 Kirk and Edmonds. Mina is 100% right you look at our lack of depth it's entirely because Keim misses on so many picks he has to sign guys to fill roles and then has to go cheap on the depth to stay under the cap.

I still want a new coaching staff but I do agree it all should start with can Steve Keim.

This

 

[DVontel]

Hilarious that Bidwill just watched a backup get more snaps than our last two 1st round draft picks combined & be fine with it while continuing to see that these 1st round picks are failing over & over again.

 

[cardpa]

He was definitely awful last night but RG3? He had one good season, got progressively worse every year after that. Kyler has had 3 good years, gotten better every year. The concern of course is the performance in key games and yes that he appeared to be playing scared last night when we really needed him to step up.

After RG3's first season he put up 23 TD's and 23 picks the rest of his career, Murray isn't even remotely comparable to him yet.

now if he picks up next year where he left off this year then yeah that would be very bad.

The reality is we have the 23rd pick in the draft so we're probably not getting a QB with that pick and would frankly be crazy to use a late first rounder on one this draft is a total crapshoot at QB there's no lock at all so we'd almost have to trade Kyler to get a QB this year. I guess that's why Prescott and Watson make the most sense since they're Texas teams and both would have reasons to want to trade their guy. If Watson had a totally clean background yeah you'd at this point probably jump all over it but he doesn't, we still have no clue what's going to happen to him

I have a theory on this. The players around Murray have gotten better each of the three years he's been the QB. I am going to say his improvement is more about the players around him elevating his play rather than self improvement or Murray elevating the play of the players around him. As you can see there were improvements at TE, RB, WR and Oline especially in 2021. I am going to put forth the theory that most of Murray's self improvement is mostly from game experience having played for three seasons now and any other areas of self improvement outside of game experience has been minimal.



2019

QB	Kyler Murray	22	Rook	16	349 for 542, 3,722 yards, 20 td, 12 int, & 93 rushes for 544 yards and 4 td
RB	Kenyan Drake	25	3	8	123 rushes for 643 yards, 8 td, & 28 catches for 171 yards and 0 td
WR	Larry Fitzgerald	36	15	16	75 catches for 804 yards, 4 td
WR	Christian Kirk	23	1	13	68 catches for 709 yards, 3 td, & 10 rushes for 93 yards and 0 td
TE	Charles Clay	30	8	10	18 catches for 237 yards, 1 td
TE	Maxx Williams	25	4	10	15 catches for 202 yards, 1 td
LT	D.J. Humphries	26	3	16
LG	Justin Pugh	29	6	16
C	A.Q. Shipley	33	10	16
RG	J.R. Sweezy	30	7	16
RT	Justin Murray

2020

QB	Kyler Murray	23	1	16	375 for 558, 3,971 yards, 26 td, 12 int, & 133 rushes for 819 yards and 11 td
RB	Kenyan Drake	26	4	13	239 rushes for 955 yards, 10 td, & 25 catches for 137 yards and 0 td
WR	Larry Fitzgerald	37	16	13	54 catches for 409 yards, 1 td
WR	DeAndre Hopkins	28	7	16	115 catches for 1,407 yards, 6 td, & 1 rush for 1 yards and 0 td
WR	Christian Kirk	24	2	10	48 catches for 621 yards, 6 td, & 2 rushes for 3 yards and 0 td
TE	Maxx Williams	26	5	8	8 catches for 102 yards, 1 td
LT	D.J. Humphries	27	4	16
LG	Justin Pugh	30	7	15
C	Mason Cole	24	2	14	1 fumble recovered
RG	J.R. Sweezy	31	8	10
RT	Kelvin Beachum	31	8	16	1 fumble recovered

2021

QB	Kyler Murray
RB	James Conner
WR	A J Green
WR	DeAndre Hopkins
WR	Christian Kirk
TE	Maxx Williams/Zach Ertz
LT	D.J. Humphries
LG	Justin Pugh
C	Rodney Hudson
RG	Josh Jones
RT	Kevin Beachum

 

[Russ Smith]

I have a theory on this. The players around Murray have gotten better each of the three years he's been the QB. I am going to say his improvement is more about the players around him elevating his play rather than self improvement or Murray elevating the play of the players around him. As you can see there were improvements at TE, RB, WR and Oline especially in 2021. I am going to put forth the theory that most of Murray's self improvement is mostly from game experience having played for three seasons now and any other areas of self improvement outside of game experience has been minimal.



2019

QB	Kyler Murray	22	Rook	16	349 for 542, 3,722 yards, 20 td, 12 int, & 93 rushes for 544 yards and 4 td
RB	Kenyan Drake	25	3	8	123 rushes for 643 yards, 8 td, & 28 catches for 171 yards and 0 td
WR	Larry Fitzgerald	36	15	16	75 catches for 804 yards, 4 td
WR	Christian Kirk	23	1	13	68 catches for 709 yards, 3 td, & 10 rushes for 93 yards and 0 td
TE	Charles Clay	30	8	10	18 catches for 237 yards, 1 td
TE	Maxx Williams	25	4	10	15 catches for 202 yards, 1 td
LT	D.J. Humphries	26	3	16
LG	Justin Pugh	29	6	16
C	A.Q. Shipley	33	10	16
RG	J.R. Sweezy	30	7	16
RT	Justin Murray

2020

QB	Kyler Murray	23	1	16	375 for 558, 3,971 yards, 26 td, 12 int, & 133 rushes for 819 yards and 11 td
RB	Kenyan Drake	26	4	13	239 rushes for 955 yards, 10 td, & 25 catches for 137 yards and 0 td
WR	Larry Fitzgerald	37	16	13	54 catches for 409 yards, 1 td
WR	DeAndre Hopkins	28	7	16	115 catches for 1,407 yards, 6 td, & 1 rush for 1 yards and 0 td
WR	Christian Kirk	24	2	10	48 catches for 621 yards, 6 td, & 2 rushes for 3 yards and 0 td
TE	Maxx Williams	26	5	8	8 catches for 102 yards, 1 td
LT	D.J. Humphries	27	4	16
LG	Justin Pugh	30	7	15
C	Mason Cole	24	2	14	1 fumble recovered
RG	J.R. Sweezy	31	8	10
RT	Kelvin Beachum	31	8	16	1 fumble recovered

2021

QB	Kyler Murray
RB	James Conner
WR	A J Green
WR	DeAndre Hopkins
WR	Christian Kirk
TE	Maxx Williams/Zach Ertz
LT	D.J. Humphries
LG	Justin Pugh
C	Rodney Hudson
RG	Josh Jones
RT	Kevin Beachum

I don't disagree, getting D Hop really helped him. But he HAS improved, he's taking far less bad sacks than he did earlier, he still does it but not nearly as much. He does step up more than he did earlier on. He's been more accurate.

This year was a tale of 2 Kyler's, Kyler with D Hop, Kyler without. Kyler before the injury, Kyler after. There's an overlap there Kyler after injury for the most part was also Kyler without D Hop.

The problem of course is you can't be that tied to one WR that if he's out, you fall apart.

But again comparing him to RG3 is just not accurate, RG3 literally fell off a cliff from year 1 to year 3.

I should add you're SUPPOSED to increase teh talent around a high draft pick QB. We were the worst team in the NFL that's how we drafted him. We had one of the worst offenses in NFL history before he got here. We brought in a rookie HC at the same time as Kyler. You're supposed to add talent to that roster.

 

[DVontel]

Non-QB building block players:

49ers - Nick Bosa, Deebo Samuel, George Kittle, Fred Warner, Trent Williams, Arik Armstead, Jimmie Ward, Elijah Mitchell, etc.

Rams - Aaron Donald, Cooper Kupp, Jalen Ramsey, Robert Woods, Tyler Higbee, Cam Akers, possibly ODell & Von.

Cardinals - Budda Baker, Rodney Hudson, DeAndre Hopkins &……? One guy is already 30+ & another will be 30 when next season starts.


Sheesh.

 

[kerouac9]

I hate the guy but Pete Carroll better than Kliff. Frank Reich I think he's better although they imploded too. Taylor hard to say he's not better the way they finished strong this year. I even think Sirianni is better he got to the playoffs with Hurts at QB by just realizing we're not going to be a great passing team so trade Ertz(thank you) make Goedert the TE and become a running team. They also changed their defense midseason because it wasn't working

I might even argue Dan Campbell is better, I don't think Detroit is poorly coached they were less talented they were in most of their games they lost 7 games by a TD or less. Looking at schedule lost by 2 THREE times, a tie, etc. I think he probably did a pretty good job with that roster

I have a ton of respect for Frank Reich and then I thought about how they basically won with Phil Rivers last year and he's found the Jacksonville Jaguars an unsolvable problem and at least it's close.

Zac Taylor has been carried by an immensely talented roster and is a pretty shaky coach. I think that if you switched Taylor and Kliff the Cards are worse and the Bengals are better.

Sirianni got smoked in the playoffs and ended up 9-8 without beating a single team with a winning record.

I love Dan Campbell — he was the other guy I wanted with Kliff, if you remember. 2-5-1 in one-score games is worse than you'd expect an average team to be. Also, that means they got completely smoked in the other 9 games (except against us!).

In some ways he's a clear example of the alternative to Kliff that can work. A guy who's a motivator and an organizational culture guy but doesn't really do much from an Xs and Os perspective.

Regardless, even if you want to move all of those guys up above Kliff, he's still somewhere in the middle of the group. I just don't think it's fair to say that he's some overwhelmed yahoo like Joe Judge or something.

 

[Shane]

Todd Bowles. I think he may say no until Keim is here.

Todd Bowles is a good head coach? Proof?

 

[Harry]

A couple points here.

1 - QBs who play scared rarely can change their mentality. Kyler does not want to get hit and makes negative plays to avoid doing so. I don't see anyone being able to turn his mind around from that.

2 - Kyler does not seem self aware. He does not seem to recognize his faults and flaws much less begin to know how to fix them. He believes he is a champion and winner despite not being being either since High School. Essentially he has the mindset that if he loses it is because of someone or something else and not him.

3 - Kyler does not seem to be inspired to 100% dedicate himself to football. Him still talking about playing baseball kinda highlights that along with his special powers which mean that he doesn't need extra film work.

4 - Kyler is small and already struggles to stay physically healthy.

All of these are a recipe for someone who is going to set back a franchise 5 years because he will be just enough of a tease to get a huge deal and new HC only to continue to maintain these four truths. He is kinda taking the RGIII career path and giving him a huge deal will just make moving on from him harder and more impactful.

REALITY: We won't give him a new deal this offseason. We will pick up his 5th year option. I would not be shocked if he did not show for voluntary workouts if that is the case. The best case scenario is that we will be smart enough to plan to franchise tag him after that if he continues on his current path.

This is reasonably accurate and focuses well on the problem. My only thought is the tough love approach others and myself have suggested. Murray is such a premier athlete I hare to give up on him while there is even a slight hope. That said I posted Bidwill (makes it clear it comes from the top) has to have a face-to-face with Murray and specifically address these issues and the proposed solution. If Murray is at all hesitant or defensive; trade him while there are still suckers who would overpay. Maybe the Giants, for example.

 

[Russ Smith]

I have a ton of respect for Frank Reich and then I thought about how they basically won with Phil Rivers last year and he's found the Jacksonville Jaguars an unsolvable problem and at least it's close.

Zac Taylor has been carried by an immensely talented roster and is a pretty shaky coach. I think that if you switched Taylor and Kliff the Cards are worse and the Bengals are better.

Sirianni got smoked in the playoffs and ended up 9-8 without beating a single team with a winning record.

I love Dan Campbell — he was the other guy I wanted with Kliff, if you remember. 2-5-1 in one-score games is worse than you'd expect an average team to be. Also, that means they got completely smoked in the other 9 games (except against us!).

In some ways he's a clear example of the alternative to Kliff that can work. A guy who's a motivator and an organizational culture guy but doesn't really do much from an Xs and Os perspective.

Regardless, even if you want to move all of those guys up above Kliff, he's still somewhere in the middle of the group. I just don't think it's fair to say that he's some overwhelmed yahoo like Joe Judge or something.

I don't think he is either again I think he's Mark Jackson and we need to hire Steve Kerr now. I just don't know who Steve Kerr is, but I didn't know Steve Kerr was Steve Kerr when the Warriors hired him I could not believe they hired a Tv announcer but it was a brilliant move in hindsight.

And again the issues are opposite, the Warriors players didn't like Jackson and didn't trust him, they needed someone to come in and get them to the next level but they also needed a likable guy, Steve Kerr. Kliff is VERY likable, if anything his problem is maybe his team likes him too much and sees him more as a friend than a coach. And that's a guess I have no inside. I don't want Frank Kush or some maniac, I want someone who can get the team to the next level by making them more accountable. And that includes Kyler as other have pointed out he did the exact same thing against the COlts a few weeks ago, that can't happen.

 

[Harry]

Would love nothing but an Oline of guys with Doblers mentality towards football.

Refs call things quite a bit differently today. Even Doubler has suggested he’d have a tough time playing in today’s game.

 

[Harry]

I would take a bologna sandwich for Isabella. Why would anyone trade for him at this point when he is likely to not even make the roster next year?

I ONLY want a new coaching staff if it means that Keim goes too. Let them all sink or swim together so we can get a competent GM that can actually draft.

I think Kliff and Keim stays, but I would love it if Harbaugh came here and took over this team.

Isabella has zero trade value!

 

[Stout]

I don't disagree, getting D Hop really helped him. But he HAS improved, he's taking far less bad sacks than he did earlier, he still does it but not nearly as much. He does step up more than he did earlier on. He's been more accurate.

This year was a tale of 2 Kyler's, Kyler with D Hop, Kyler without. Kyler before the injury, Kyler after. There's an overlap there Kyler after injury for the most part was also Kyler without D Hop.

The problem of course is you can't be that tied to one WR that if he's out, you fall apart.

But again comparing him to RG3 is just not accurate, RG3 literally fell off a cliff from year 1 to year 3.

I should add you're SUPPOSED to increase teh talent around a high draft pick QB. We were the worst team in the NFL that's how we drafted him. We had one of the worst offenses in NFL history before he got here. We brought in a rookie HC at the same time as Kyler. You're supposed to add talent to that roster.

Except he started doing those bad things, like taking the bad sacks, and he did them A LOT. So, I'm not considering that improvement. It's not improvement if the situation and game has to be perfect to accomplish those things. It's how you do when you're in the crunch that really matters. As soon as things weren't perfect, those awful sacks and bad habits came right back.

 

[phillycard]

Daniels. We can't find someone better than this guy? He is horrible. Ran himself away from a first down on the first drive. Was actually a great call.

I thought I was the only one that noticed that! Man ran like he had ankle weights on and actually ran TO the defenders. SMDH.

 

[Russ Smith]

I thought I was the only one that noticed that! Man ran like he had ankle weights on and actually ran TO the defenders. SMDH.

Like 10 of us made that exact comment in the game thread. It was a perfectly set up play he just ran into the defense.

Terrible.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

The fact that Darrell Daniels is even on the roster is a testament to Keim's failures to draft at every single position group.

The fact that Kliff Kingsbury thought it would be a good idea to run a screen to his slowest, least talented player at the start of the biggest game of his career shows how poor his game plan was. We have a team that crumbles when things don't go their way to start a game. The sequence of plays we ran in the first few drives was just mind numbingly bad.

 

[GatorAZ]

Non-QB building block players:

49ers - Nick Bosa, Deebo Samuel, George Kittle, Fred Warner, Trent Williams, Arik Armstead, Jimmie Ward, Elijah Mitchell, etc.

Rams - Aaron Donald, Cooper Kupp, Jalen Ramsey, Robert Woods, Tyler Higbee, Cam Akers, possibly ODell & Von.

Cardinals - Budda Baker, Rodney Hudson, DeAndre Hopkins &……? One guy is already 30+ & another will be 30 when next season starts.


Sheesh.

If Jimmie Ward is a building block I’m adding Thompson/Murphy as one’s even though they struggled down the stretch.

Next year is going to be big for Marco. His corner instincts seem to be awful right now.

 

[Harry]

I do wonder what his trade value would be?

I’m fairly certain you could make this trade but I wouldn’t. I still see value.

 

[Harry]

I would trade Kyler for 3 first round picks and tank next season for a 6'6 alpha QB with a big arm and heart of a lion.

Couldn’t get 3 picks but maybe 2

 

[JohnnyCakes]

Trade Murray, find a way to get Aaron Rodgers