ON The pick six

[dreamcastrocks]

I think the Kirk pass play was correct I think the pass was forward, Conner did everything he could to try and make it look like it wasn't but the ref was looking right at it.

I also thought the Green no catch was a good call I guess mainly I don't know what a "football move" means but it seemed like he didnt' fully have the ball caught when he did that hop. Live I thought catch, first replay catch, then another angle I thought that ball is moving not a catch.

My biggest gripe is the yes Stafford scored because while I know he did, the replay doesn't show the ball. Last year drake same thing in the endzone against I think the Niners end of half 4th down play. He clearly scores you can see where his body is the bal HAS to be in but the refs reviewed and we were told they could not overturn it because the ball was not visible(Pereira said it not the real refs). But they would have scored on us anyways that's just how the game went.

We sucked

a 3rd step, an attempt to stiff arm, turning around, etc are all considered football moves.

Agreed on the TD. I was sure he scored, but there wasn't clear visual evidence of it. I didn't even bring up that call because I was convinced that Stafford did actually score but I'm not sure you could overturn the onfield decision.

 

[Russ Smith]

Sure... our o-line is not good. But bringing that point up on a play when Kyler actually had significant time to make a play, seems quite out of place...

At this point I'm fairly certain you didn't even read the story I posted the entire point of it was as bad a play as that was by Kyler it's indicative of bigger issues on the team. We don't adapt, Kliff's plays are too predictable, and Kyler is holding the ball too long. He goes into great detail explaining the whole thing, and he also points the finger at Kyler.

It's not out of place it's the literal point of HIS story.

 

[82CardsGrad]

At this point I'm fairly certain you didn't even read the story I posted the entire point of it was as bad a play as that was by Kyler it's indicative of bigger issues on the team. We don't adapt, Kliff's plays are too predictable, and Kyler is holding the ball too long. He goes into great detail explaining the whole thing, and he also points the finger at Kyler.

It's not out of place it's the literal point of HIS story.

 

[Stout]

a 3rd step, an attempt to stiff arm, turning around, etc are all considered football moves.

Agreed on the TD. I was sure he scored, but there wasn't clear visual evidence of it. I didn't even bring up that call because I was convinced that Stafford did actually score but I'm not sure you could overturn the onfield decision.

Except he didn't have the ball secured while making those football moves; it was still moving. The refs seemed to get those calls right. My problem with the refs is that it took them 5-10 minutes PER FREAKING CALL to get it right. Like, they just kept talking and talking over the Green catch. Make a freaking decision and stop dragging out this ish show already! lol

 

[Brian in Mesa]

No matter what else happened, chucking the ball blindly into the air while being tackled in the end zone is shockingly moronic. It's Pop Warner stuff. It can only be explained by pure panic.

I didn't see this game but I just watched a clip of this play. A mirror image of what happened in a home game late in the season. Kyler in the end zone and just blindly tossing the ball into the field of play. Very lucky he didn't get a pick-six back then. Not as lucky on this play. Just an absolutely moronic thing to do and something even a high school QB would know NOT to do.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

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[Cheesewater]

Since we are talking about the play as a thread topic, just watch how he was tackled... it is a clear horse collar. Would that have made a difference in the game, I'm sure it wouldn't. That is a clear as day penalty.

This is from the NFL rulebook:

"ARTICLE 16. HORSE-COLLAR TACKLE
No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, or grab the jersey at the name plate or above, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket."

Does this apply?

 

[GatorAZ]

I'm 100% convinced it was a horse collar.

They definitely were on the wrong end of calls this game (before someone starts, the refs aren't the blame for this loss)

Forwards lateral play that seemed to level.
Horse collar on the pick 6.
AJ Green catch that wasn't even though he caught the ball with two feet down and took another step with both feet meaning 4 feet down but was overturned.
Donald not being ejected after ripping Humphries helmet off and then proceeded to choke him right in front of the refs.

Kirk was a clear forward pass and Green bobbled the ball before he was hit. Based on the replay it does seem like it couldn’t been a horse collar on the blitzing LB. It doesn’t excuse the decision to toss it up recklessly.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Kirk was a clear forward pass and Green bobbled the ball before he was hit. Based on the replay it does seem like it couldn’t been a horse collar on the blitzing LB. It doesn’t excuse the decision to toss it up recklessly.

Maybe Kyler is just bad at math.

Someone show him 2<7, please.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Here's the previous time (Christmas Day) he literally did the same thing - play starts at 4:29 of the video - he blindly throws a pass into the field of play from his own end zone. He's lucky it didn't go for a TD. SMH. He just doesn't learn. This is basic football stuff, too.

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[Russ Smith]

I didn't see this game but I just watched a clip of this play. A mirror image of what happened in a home game late in the season. Kyler in the end zone and just blindly tossing the ball into the field of play. Very lucky he didn't get a pick-six back then. Not as lucky on this play. Just an absolutely moronic thing to do and something even a high school QB would know NOT to do.

Yeah he did it in the Colts game.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is from the NFL rulebook:

"ARTICLE 16. HORSE-COLLAR TACKLE
No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, or grab the jersey at the name plate or above, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket."

Does this apply?

Yeah he was still in the pocket so if that's the rule then yes not a horse collar. Good find

 

[Harry]

I‘m sorry if people are bored with me saying this but I feel this POV is worth maintaining. I have to wonder whether after that absurd play in the Colts game that preceded this pick-six, if Kingsbury laid out Murray’s play. Is there any real coaching or holding Murray accountable? It seems like Kingsbury may have been watching too much Ted Lasso. I got heavily criticized earlier for saying such criticism was appropriate immediately on the sideline. People seemed concerned that would hurt Murray’s feelings. Someone should hurt them IMO. I can’t honestly say I know how Kingsbury is handling these occurrences, but I can say whatever he’s doing, isn’t working. From all appearances Murray just keeps doing the same thing but expecting different results. This entire play encompasses many of the things I’ve been writing about. This is game is the 18th of this season. How can all these issues still be current?

 

[reebokalone2001]

All of that happened but if you read the story the guy is pretty clear, the first problem there is the OL gets so confused by the Rams pass rush scheme they let Reeder go 1 on 1 with Edmonds while 2 OL are standing there doing nothing but "helping" on Gaines. They only rushed THREE guys on that play. Miller from the right, Gaines from the middle and Reeder the LB who delayed blitzed. Donald drops and just stands there spying kyler in the middle, and Floyd actually drops left to cover Rondale. It's a THREE man rush against 5 OL's plus Edmonds and we ended up with a small RB trying to block a blitzing LB 1 on 1.

Kyler has to read it faster and realize what he wants downfield isn't open go to Rondale but that Reeder got there that fast in a 3 man rush is staggeringly bad for our OL.

The writer points out the Cards were so concerned with Donald that even on a play where he doesn't rush, we have 1 guy blocking him and one guy helping both on him and Gaines, Miller is 1 on 1, 4 guys on Gaines and Donald leaving Reeder 1 on 1 with Chase. Just pathetic.

As I saw the replay again, Pugh immediately turned right to help Hudson block Gains which left the high gap between him and Humphries who was blocking Miller. Reeder delayed blitzed in that gap and engaged with Edmonds. Pugh then switched to Donald after he pulled a stunt. Pugh did not pay attention to Reeder at all the whole time. My guess was that Pugh's task was to keep an eye on Donald and make sure to switch & take him if he performs a stunt. I would ask my player to do the same if I were the online coach. Donald just is someone you have to watch out for every single time. That's why he immediately turned to the right side where Donald was instead of staying put and reacting to the defense. It almost seems that Pugh did not think there is gonna be a blitzer. This is a 100% communication and assignment problem, but I don't know who is responsible for calling the block assignments and potential blitzer.

 

[THESMEL]

Man the field position battle was a massacre

 

[juza76]

Surely using Edmonds as a rb blocker near our goal line was beyond pathetic and clueless

 

[reebokalone2001]

That's what happens... I thought Kugler was an offensive line guru. I can't believe that anymore.

I don't know if it is on Kugler yet. It was not a technique or skill or even a scheme problem. It is more on the aspect of reading, analyzing, recognizing the defense. I was surprised to see a player as experienced as Pugh would make this kind of mistake.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Surely using Edmonds as a rb blocker near our goal line was beyond pathetic and clueless

Shouldn't a 5'9 205 pound RB be able to stop a charging 6'3 245 pound LB?

 

[reebokalone2001]

No matter what else happened, chucking the ball blindly into the air while being tackled in the end zone is shockingly moronic. It's Pop Warner stuff. It can only be explained by pure panic.

The sad thing is this was not his first time doing that. Last time he got lucky the ball was not picked. Even the commentators were talking about what a moronic decision Kyler made. So neither did he get chewed on that terrible decision by coaches so he thought it was an OK thing to do nor did he listen or refused to change. Either way, not a promising scenario for the team.

 

[THESMEL]

Surely using Edmonds as a rb blocker near our goal line was beyond pathetic and clueless

Don’t you know that’s the main purpose of a running back? edge complained about that, said he was not an offensive lineman in the backfield. Got away with it kind of, whis benched him!

 

[reebokalone2001]

The ref was a bit behind the ball so he didn't have a perfect angle. If the ball went forward, it was by no more than a foot.

Manning brothers said it was a forward pass immediately after it happened, even before Conner started to run. Fitz was the only person in the room defending the pass. Larry deserves more love.

 

[Russ Smith]

Surely using Edmonds as a rb blocker near our goal line was beyond pathetic and clueless

If you read the story the author makes that exact point. Their system they have Conner rated as essentially the best pass blocking RB in the NFL, Edmonds ranks towards the bottom of the list. That Edmonds isn't out in the pattern begs the question why is he in then? They could have used Conner, a better blocker, or even lined up a TE there. The reason Edmonds is there is Kliff is trying to be clever, by having a good receiver back there he's trying to occupy a defender so they have less guys to rush .

But the Rams wound up outsmarting him, as the guys says presnap you can see the Rams players talking and while we have no idea what they're saying, it appears they may have been saying this is the exact look we wanted, and they ran their little scheme where Donald pretended to rush and then stopped, occupying guys and they ended up with this gap where Reeder can go flying through there with only Edmonds to block him.

The design of the play is supposed to be clever, use Edmonds to occupy a defender, use Rondale to occupy their passrusher on that side he can't rush in because he's actually got to cover Rondale in the flat. That part worked, but the other part backfired because our OL didn't pick up that there's only 2 DL's rushing, against 5 OL's, so someone should have been freed up to pick up the blitzing Reeder but they didn't.

Also note you ordinarily are told to throw the ball where the blitz comes from, but Kyler doesn't do that because he only has one receiver on the left side of the formation, I think it's Wesley or Ertz can't really tell. We had 4 receivers on a play out of our own endzone, they dropped 7 guys into coverage plus Donald who's basically it appears spying in case either Edmonds goes out, or Kyler tries to run it up the middle.

So Kliff tried to trick them but instead our OL got completely fooled, Kyler got fooled and locked on downfield instead of coming off to Rondale or even looking left to see if Wesley(or Ertz not sure which one it was) is open. He waited too long, Reeder blew through Edmonds and then Kyler panicked, picksix.

 

[Russ Smith]

Manning brothers said it was a forward pass immediately after it happened, even before Conner started to run. Fitz was the only person in the room defending the pass. Larry deserves more love.

I actually loved that call, it worked to perfection it's a first down when we desperately needed one, gave us some breathing room for Kyler to calm down. But because Kirk threw it forward it killed the whole play. Just bad execution the play call IMO was brilliant. I don't care if it looked desperate or whatever the Rams were extremely aggressive and getting a big rush, it made sense to use that aggression against them, Kirk just had one job there make sure he threw the ball backwards, he didn't.

 

[THESMEL]

I actually loved that call, it worked to perfection it's a first down when we desperately needed one, gave us some breathing room for Kyler to calm down. But because Kirk threw it forward it killed the whole play. Just bad execution the play call IMO was brilliant. I don't care if it looked desperate or whatever the Rams were extremely aggressive and getting a big rush, it made sense to use that aggression against them, Kirk just had one job there make sure he threw the ball backwards, he didn't.

I loved it also, just poor execution on the most vital and practiced aspect of the play. I would fire my own AZ!

which I still am contemplating, throwing my 125 years of Cardinal stuff into a pile and torching it. Good riddance hope that nail selling SOB makes you happy this time.
rooster cogburn

 

[cardpa]

The ref was a bit behind the ball so he didn't have a perfect angle. If the ball went forward, it was by no more than a foot.

It went forward by two yards. Kirk was standing a yard behind the line and Conner caught it a yard ahead of the line. It wasn't even close.