One draft opinion

[CardNots]

Too many do throw verbal darts.I have I admit.Could be I just read some snarkiness into the comment.My bad.

I have to admit I had lost sight of the thread topic as I found myself focusing on the spat

 

[Bodha]

When you say 'Jax' friend, are you referring to the Jacksonville Jaguars?



Im not too worried what a Jags associate thinks about anything related to football. You have to earn that scouting credibility through success, and the Jags flat out have none.

Not to put down your friend. But, if the Jaguars were full of brilliant FB minds, then they wouldnt be the Jaguars.


I can damn well guarantee theyd be the only team in the NFL who would put a 4th round grade on Deone.

 

[Jim Otis]

I can damn well guarantee theyd be the only team in the NFL who would put a 4th round grade on Deone.

Yep, and they are the team that put a 1'st rnd. grade on a QB named Gabbert.

 

[Duckjake]

Yep, and they are the team that put a 1'st rnd. grade on a QB named Gabbert.

Yep, and the Cardinals are the team that had John Skelton and Ryan Lindley start 10 games for them in 2012 and paid Kevin "Sack a Second" Kolb $21 million dollars plus giving up a top CB and a 2nd round draft pick for that bum.

Matt Leinart. Passing on Adrian Peterson for Levi Brown.

Sadly we have no leg to stand on when it comes to dissing other teams player evaluations.

 

[Bodha]

Yep, and the Cardinals are the team that had John Skelton and Ryan Lindley start 10 games for them in 2012 and paid Kevin "Sack a Second" Kolb $21 million dollars plus giving up a top CB and a 2nd round draft pick for that bum.

Matt Leinart. Passing on Adrian Peterson for Levi Brown.

Sadly we have no leg to stand on when it comes to dissing other teams player evaluations.

Thats not true. Weve never been short on talent. Weve only long lacked a QB

plenty of our post Warner teams were playoff caliber had we had a QB


The same cant be said for Jacksonville. They have long been a talent deficient team. MJD and Marcedes Lewis are the only 2 Jags of note I can think of off the top of my head who perform admirably every year.

and also Eugene Monroe. A young, proven, franchise LT they traded for a 4th rounder


Which, if the Jags think Eugene Monroe was worth a 4th rounder, then that means Deone Bucannon is going to be pretty damn good!

 

[Duckjake]

Thats not true. Weve never been short on talent. Weve only long lacked a QB

plenty of our post Warner teams were playoff caliber had we had a QB


The same cant be said for Jacksonville. They have long been a talent deficient team. MJD and Marcedes Lewis are the only 2 Jags of note I can think of off the top of my head who perform admirably every year.

and also Eugene Monroe. A young, proven, franchise LT they traded for a 4th rounder


Which, if the Jags think Eugene Monroe was worth a 4th rounder, then that means Deone Bucannon is going to be pretty damn good!

Pure speculation.

But since anything and everything that went wrong can readily be blamed on not having a QB or success attributed solely to Warner there is no real way to debate anything about previous Cards teams.

And if the Cards were so stocked with talent why were half the starters from 2012 no longer starting in 2013?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Finito

I would have liked Marcus Smith at 20 or Demarcus Lawrence at 27 And I would have took Hyde or Hill at RB in the 2nd, Now the Niners have Gore's replacement and we are the punchee instead of the puncher on offense.

Bucannon hits like a mule but the doubts are his rigid hips and fluidity in coverage, He has to cover Vernon Davis! it is a big fat maybe if he can! but I am damn sure Marcus or Demarkus above would fill a premium need we have avoided for years at OLB/DE.

As far as a Blocking TE over a top tier RB - He is a monster in pass protection but Dwyer is anything but proven as a starting back in the NFL. I trust but VERIFY! We have a steal in Ellington but expand his role now- He aint no pounder.

We will see how it works out, but

You lost me at RB in the 2nd round.

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[THESMEL]

We haven't drafted a pass rusher since Simeon Rice? Unless you count a broken Schofield.

Yea well the teams that kicked the crap out of us were happy with both picks a couple picks later in the 2nd round. Even Whiz took Sankey right before- which seems stupid but we'll see.

You lost me at RB in the 2nd round.

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[Denny Green Fan]

The good news is next year we can get one of these guys in the first round:

Randy Gregory- Nebraska - Top 5 pick

Shalique Calhoun - Michigan State

Devonte Fields - TCU-

Broderick Mckinnley- Mississippi State

Markus Golden- LB Missouri

Cedrick Reed- DE Texas

Spence- Ohio State

Vic Beasley - Clemson

Mario Edwards- Florida State

 

[Duckjake]

Cards are going to be drafting top 5 in 2015. So who would be a best bet at that position?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Thats not true. Weve never been short on talent. Weve only long lacked a QB

plenty of our post Warner teams were playoff caliber had we had a QB


The same cant be said for Jacksonville. They have long been a talent deficient team. MJD and Marcedes Lewis are the only 2 Jags of note I can think of off the top of my head who perform admirably every year.

and also Eugene Monroe. A young, proven, franchise LT they traded for a 4th rounder


Which, if the Jags think Eugene Monroe was worth a 4th rounder, then that means Deone Bucannon is going to be pretty damn good!

Yep, Cards draft history is great. From 2005-09, when guys in the league have had the chance to earn their 2nd contract, the Cards drafted a grand total 6 players that are still in the NFL. During the same time span Jacksonville has 15.

From 2010-2013, almost all the draft picks for both teams are still around. However, in that time there are 3 Jags that aren't on a roster and 6 Cards draftees that aren't on a roster.

But I can see where you think the Cards are better at finding NFL talent.

There's no doubt the Cards have more high end players though with PP, Floyd, et al.

I'm not here to disparage the Cards. I just find it amusing the un-informed making fun of other teams draft picks when the Cards history has been worse.

 

[THESMEL]

with the number one pick overall in the 2015 draft the Arizona Cardinals select - hold on there has been a trade - Foghorn Leghorn and 2 dozen 6th round picks in the future-
Boy I said BOY- I keep my feathers numbered for just such occasions!


link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pfxSuZ9xeI

 

[THESMEL]

whiz ruined them

DD ignored Hortons call and spit in Rhode's face, that pretty nasty crap right there, Whis lost this team and Hortons chance of being HC was gone in one DD tantrum.

- BA's first order of business was to evaluate which QB's were "hit out"
And you all called me nuts!

Pure speculation.

But since anything and everything that went wrong can readily be blamed on not having a QB or success attributed solely to Warner there is no real way to debate anything about previous Cards teams.

And if the Cards were so stocked with talent why were half the starters from 2012 no longer starting in 2013?

 

[GuernseyCard]

DD ignored Hortons call and spit in Rhode's face, that pretty nasty crap right there, Whis lost this team and Hortons chance of being HC was gone in one DD tantrum.

- BA's first order of business was to evaluate which QB's were "hit out"
And you all called me nuts!

And Rhodes DENIED there had been any spitting.

 

[Finito]

DD ignored Hortons call and spit in Rhode's face, that pretty nasty crap right there, Whis lost this team and Hortons chance of being HC was gone in one DD tantrum.

- BA's first order of business was to evaluate which QB's were "hit out"
And you all called me nuts!

Ray Horton cost Ray Horton a chance at a head coaching by acting like a child

 

[Darkside]

Am I the only one who thinks Ray Horton may have been over-rated here? We had talent on D before he got here. Everyone, including myself, went insane (in a bad way) when Bowles was named D Coordinator and yet I would dare to say our D was much much better under him.

 

[Duckjake]

Am I the only one who thinks Ray Horton may have been over-rated here? We had talent on D before he got here. Everyone, including myself, went insane (in a bad way) when Bowles was named D Coordinator and yet I would dare to say our D was much much better under him.

I don't think in any way Horton was overrated. The Cards were horrific on Defense before he arrived, 30th in points allowed and 29th in yards allowed under Davis in 2010, and after less than half a season had them playing well enough to lead the team on an 11-2 run with what we now know was one of the worst collection of QBs in NFL history. If anyone was the beneficiary of existing talent it was Bowles not Horton.

However, I was pleasantly surprised that Bowles was able to have the D play even better.

 

[WildBB]

1) I didn't think we improved our ability to defend athletic TEs on draft day with Buccanon. I think he's strictly a box safety who didn't play as fast on the field as his combine numbers. The 4-5 games I saw him at WSU he was average in coverage because his size limits him IMO.

Was he over drafted? I think so, but that doesn't make me think he's a bad player he's just limited. We can only hope he's the second coming of AW, who struggled at moments in coverage as well throughout his career.

2) the Niklaus pick to me was the real reach because of what BA wants offensively. Good solid player, nothing more. Drafting a predominantly blocking TE isn't worth a 2nd rounder IMO, those picks should be counted on as stars & game changers!!! Don't we have the exact same player in Carlson? I don't think either are fast enough to be a Heath Miller clone. Today's nfl is changing & sometimes you have to change your philosophies on some positions

1) We sure didn't take a step backwards from Bell and Mathieu trying to cover them. They both were very overmatched there. I see nothing but improvment at the position of "most glaring need." Looking forward to this guy laying some AW2 wood. Trick will be to get him to pick his spots well.
Don't get caught - because oponents will try to get him to bite often. Play smart and when the opportunity presents itself in front of you - then bite.

2) I also liked the Niklas pick, precisely because of the reality of who we face six times a year now. He will help produce more 2nd and 3rd and shorts with the option to help out on the edges and additional outlet help for Palmer when pass pro breaks down or on blitzes he could slide out and make D's pay.
I'd like to see his RAC ability. The thing with Carlson is his tendency for concussions. He's not reliable for 16 games, by any stretch. They have to be real careful with him.

 

[52brandon]

I don't think in any way Horton was overrated. The Cards were horrific on Defense before he arrived, 30th in points allowed and 29th in yards allowed under Davis in 2010, and after less than half a season had them playing well enough to lead the team on an 11-2 run with what we now know was one of the worst collection of QBs in NFL history. If anyone was the beneficiary of existing talent it was Bowles not Horton.

However, I was pleasantly surprised that Bowles was able to have the D play even better.

I don't think you can say Bowles benefitted from the players' talent but Horton didn't when they're the same players. Talent isn't taught. I do think Bowles benefitted from Horton switchinv them to a 3-4 prior as well as his giving the D confidence in themselves. Davis was just terrible at thd job. Horton was very good. And Bowles seems to be as well from first impressions. I hated losing Horton in favor of Bowles, but he seems to be doing good enough. I just hope they keep improving with him

 

[Duckjake]

I don't think you can say Bowles benefitted from the players' talent but Horton didn't when they're the same players. Talent isn't taught. I do think Bowles benefitted from Horton switchinv them to a 3-4 prior as well as his giving the D confidence in themselves. Davis was just terrible at thd job. Horton was very good. And Bowles seems to be as well from first impressions. I hated losing Horton in favor of Bowles, but he seems to be doing good enough. I just hope they keep improving with him

True.

Odd stat: 5 of the top 12 Defensive Players last season were drafted while Bill Davis was on the staff. Peterson,Campbell,Washington,Dan Williams and Rashad Johnson. Add in the 2004 guys Dockett and Dansby and 7 were drafted before either Horton or Bowles were hired.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Am I the only one who thinks Ray Horton may have been over-rated here? We had talent on D before he got here. Everyone, including myself, went insane (in a bad way) when Bowles was named D Coordinator and yet I would dare to say our D was much much better under him.

our defense also added a guy who was a 2nd Team All Pro ILBer and a complete stud with HB that Horton didn't have.

Horton did a great job with what was previously an AWFUL defense and did another good job in Cleveland this year. He's a good DC. Nothing more, nothing less.

That said, Bowles did a bang up job last year also. Let's see what he does this year without that All Pro ILBer and HB.

 

[clif]

The only problem I have with these scout dinner posts is that you allude to more info being shared with you that you won't speak on. Ok. I get it. Confidential info should not be shared, however referencing said info is in poor form IMO. It's like saying "I know something you don't and I'm not telling you but oh it's wonderful...."


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[az jam]

our defense also added a guy who was a 2nd Team All Pro ILBer and a complete stud with HB that Horton didn't have.

Horton did a great job with what was previously an AWFUL defense and did another good job in Cleveland this year. He's a good DC. Nothing more, nothing less.

That said, Bowles did a bang up job last year also. Let's see what he does this year without that All Pro ILBer and HB.

Agree,bottom line IMO is that Horton and Bowles are both good DCs. They are much better than what the Cards had in the past.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I don't think you can say Bowles benefitted from the players' talent but Horton didn't when they're the same players. Talent isn't taught. I do think Bowles benefitted from Horton switchinv them to a 3-4 prior as well as his giving the D confidence in themselves. Davis was just terrible at thd job. Horton was very good. And Bowles seems to be as well from first impressions. I hated losing Horton in favor of Bowles, but he seems to be doing good enough. I just hope they keep improving with him

The 'terrible' Davis seems to be doing quite well in Philly.

 

[Jetstream Green]

lets not shoot the messenger. I for one like to hear what his scout friend thinks. its entertaining information.

This