O'Neal calls Nash's MVPs 'tainted'
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devilalum
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Not only should Nash win MVP, he should also win coach of the year. The way the Suns struggle when he's out makes me wonder if D'Antoni does anything at all.
We still have a star filled roster even without Nash but we can't even beat the likes of Atlanta when Nash doesn't play. I know this has been brought up before but are about 2-10 without Nash over the last 3 seasons.
Why can't we win without him? What other top team is this dependant on one player to win?
We still have a star filled roster even without Nash but we can't even beat the likes of Atlanta when Nash doesn't play. I know this has been brought up before but are about 2-10 without Nash over the last 3 seasons.
Why can't we win without him? What other top team is this dependant on one player to win?
msdundee
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This is another example of the media (Coro) jumping on something and making it more than it is -- the rest of his article implies he sprinted back to Nash with the comment, just to get a reaction. Then he puts it all together with his own little bits of glue and the fun starts.
I don't think the "taint" was a slam at Nash. Shaq is Shaq, and he probably looks at any year he didn't win the MVP as being tainted. Wasn't he the runner-up in 2005?
msdundee
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Once more on the MVP: We've all read the columns and seen about a bazillion posts on it, both this year and last year -- credentials of the group doing the voting, criteria for interpreting "valuable," who's done what in the past, all that.
This year it looks like Dirk and Steve are front-runners. The nice part about that is that they're good friends so whichever one wins, the other will be happy for him because right now they each have a bigger goal at the top of the list. All the inevitable complaining and nastiness that follows will come from others, mostly the fans. I think they're both deserving, either way it goes is fine with me.
I watched the Mavs game on TNT the other day and they did mention Cuban was distributing 20,000 "Dirk for MVP" t-shirts to Mavs fans. Mass marketing at its finest.
This year it looks like Dirk and Steve are front-runners. The nice part about that is that they're good friends so whichever one wins, the other will be happy for him because right now they each have a bigger goal at the top of the list. All the inevitable complaining and nastiness that follows will come from others, mostly the fans. I think they're both deserving, either way it goes is fine with me.
I watched the Mavs game on TNT the other day and they did mention Cuban was distributing 20,000 "Dirk for MVP" t-shirts to Mavs fans. Mass marketing at its finest.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
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i'm sorry, campaigning for the mvp? that's just flat out ********. i hate the campaigning that goes on for the heisman too. what is, high school government elections? the most popular wins? friggin' ridiculous. it's for reasons like these that, despite the yearning to win, will always make me look at cuban and think "boob." sarver was heading down that path, but he's done a terrific job of righting his ship in my opinion.
devilalum
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Self promoting owners are all boobs. Sports are played by athtletes. Egg head owners that that try and steal the spotlight from the athletes are pathetic.
Bashing D'Antoni is not justified, IMO.
Boston collapsed without Pierce. Milwaukee can't win without Redd. Watch what happens to Miami without Dwayne Wade. Houston loses when McGrady can't play.
TheFallen49
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Do you know who gets MVP votes? Basically the media. So if i'm falling into the medias perception of MVP that would mean I think Steve deserved those two MVP's which I don't (for the second year anyway).
You can see that Phoenix struggles without Nash, does that make him valuable? Of course. The problem with even giving Nash the first two MVP's is the simple fact that the team/system makes him look good just as much as he makes the team/system look good. The media has not caught on with that, so it's clear either a) Nash is truely the MVP or b) Amare and Marion shouldn't be all-stars, two all-stars should be able to carry a team by themselves.
In essence Kobe is doing the exact same thing in the Lakers with a lot worse team and a much more complex system (albeit losing as of late) and until recently I would have marked him as the MVP. Now it has to go to Dirk, the gap between the Mavs and everyone else is overwhelming and Dallas could potentially reach 50 wins before any team aside from Phoenix reaches 40.
You can see that Phoenix struggles without Nash, does that make him valuable? Of course. The problem with even giving Nash the first two MVP's is the simple fact that the team/system makes him look good just as much as he makes the team/system look good. The media has not caught on with that, so it's clear either a) Nash is truely the MVP or b) Amare and Marion shouldn't be all-stars, two all-stars should be able to carry a team by themselves.
In essence Kobe is doing the exact same thing in the Lakers with a lot worse team and a much more complex system (albeit losing as of late) and until recently I would have marked him as the MVP. Now it has to go to Dirk, the gap between the Mavs and everyone else is overwhelming and Dallas could potentially reach 50 wins before any team aside from Phoenix reaches 40.
I would say that some of the criticism of D'Antoni's GMing moves is certainly valid, but it is easy to say that in hindsight. We were all awfully happy when we signed Marcus Banks on the board.
Really? Because if it was the system then any point guard should be able to run it. We have already proven that to be false. The system was built around Nash and for Nash.
Overwhelming? We are talking 4 1/2 games. The problem I have with Dirk getting the MVP is Dirk doesn't make any of the other players on his team better. That to me is what an MVP is all about.
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elindholm
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Not quite all of us.
In fact several posters became rather hostile with me when I said that Banks wasn't a PG.
Not quite all of us.
That's cause you are a curmudgeon
elindholm
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That's cause you are a curmudgeon
That's "geezer" to you. Can't you read?
No we were not. I had said that Ainge would not offer him the qualifying offer to keep him and traded him to MN to get rid of him. People said that Ainge did not know what he was doing. I think Ainge did know what he was doing when it came to point guard Banks.
pokerface
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devilalum
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None of those teams have 2 MORE All Stars like the Suns do.
When Nash goes down D'Antoni should be able to get more out of the talent. The Suns system is completely dependant on Nash. If the Suns lost Nash for an extended period D'Antoni would have to devise a completely new approach.
One thing to consider is that it wasn't JUST Nash who was down. KT was down, as was Boris. Boris may be having a down year, but he's a key to the Suns offense when Nash is not on the floor.
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If Steve Nash was black, nobody would ever question his worthiness to be MVP.
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Well, the only one questioning it right now is Shaq. I wouldn't play the race card quite yet.
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I didn't play it. That card was laid down long ago. Don't you remember people saying that Nash only won because he was white?
msdundee
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The only place I ever saw "people saying that" was on (other) message boards.
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Try this. Do some research on Dan LeBatard. Or, just go to Google and do a search for Steve Nash MVP because he is white. You'll see that I am not simply trying to stir the pot.
elindholm
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Yeah, but how much stock are you going to put in a guy whose last name is French for "The Bastard"?
msdundee
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Okay I read it. This is an excerpt:
"Here’s the exchange between TBL and Le Batard:
“Steve Nash only won the MVP because he was white. Those are your words (or close to them). Still feel that way?
“I didn’t write that. Those are not my words. What I wrote was a question asking whether race, not racism, played a factor in the fourth-closest MVP vote ever. This isn’t that complicated, tho it became that afterward. Did Steve Nash beat Shaq because he was 1) the novelty, 2) the underdog, 3) the guy with smaller expectations, 4) the new thing, 5) different? And if you believe that any one of those five contributed to the victory, a close one, where does him being white fit into him being 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5? It was posed as a question, not as an allegation."
The Google search gives a long list of hits -- tons of blogs, message boards, and "fan comments" that count for less than nothing. You get the same result for any other topic you feed in. Sorry but the pot remains unstirred and it wasn't boiling in the first place.
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