Options?

[PhxGametime]

1. Jahidi White
Cleveland 1st Round Pick
Cleveland 2nd Round Pick

for

Jeff McInnis - Team Option (3,600,000)
Kedrick Brown

2. Jahidi White
Suns 2004 1st Round Pick

for

Robert Horry - Team Option (5,408,700)
Suns future 1st Round Pick


2 more options, if Charlotte doesn't take Eisley or White? Only 2 players I noticed with Team Options and Charlotte with not much capspace, 2 more possible transactions?

 

[SweetD]

Horry will never play in Phoenix again! That guy is an a$$. I would like to keep White around. I would much rather focus on moving Howard, since Milos could be here next year.

 

[PhxGametime]

Horry and McInnis would never suit up for Phoenix - team option. Suns would have that capspace available for Kobe...

Although if Kobe isn't available - I wouldn't mind drafting Iguodala, trading Cavs pick and 2nd Round Pick for Brendan Haywood and still having $6-7 Million.

To move Eisley - both trades would need to be adjusted.

 

[slinslin]

I thought team options would be excersised before the expansion draft and NBA draft.

 

[scotsman13]

i wouldnt mind trading away eisley, but what is it with trading away white? we have 1 center on this roster outside of white and that is jake. and while jake has made a lot of improvement this year he isnt about to be a top of the line center. unless you know where we can get a big man that can rebound and block shots and has the beef to play shaq and some of the other big men. why do so many people want to make our weakest spot even weaker?

 

[slinslin]

Because we can sign a better center for the money that Jahidi makes.
We could even draft one probably.

Dampier, Camby, Okur, Foyle, Gadzuric....

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
Because we can sign a better center for the money that Jahidi makes.
We could even draft one probably.

Dampier, Camby, Okur, Foyle, Gadzuric....

Dampier, Camby and Okur are all going to make more than White at $5.9 million.

Dampier can get $8.1 million next year and $8.7 million the following year. He has very good stats and will only move for very long contract, which is a huge risk for a guy with his history of injuries.

The Pistons are pretty clear they are going to sign Okur unless his recent bout of pouting turns them off. They have the caps space after being able to dump Atkins, so most people assume he is staying unless they decide to keep Wallace instead.

Camby might do a six year starting at White's level, but he has said repeatedly that he wants to stay in Denver. Camby is another guy with a history of injuries that wants a long contract.

I do not believe Foyle is as good as White at doing what White does - deal with power centers. Foyle has had innumerable opportunities to show he is capable of being a starter and has never really been all that impressive. He may be a useful backup if White is taken by the Bobcats, but he is not likely to be an improvement.

Gadzuric would be less expensive than White, but less useful as well. His stats are OK, but he gets them playing in the much weaker East.

In any case, the White only has one year left on his contract. Players with expiring contracts are very valuable in trades. Taking a Gadzuric with a four year contract would mean giving up trade value and the ability to get more cap space in 2005.

 

[sunsfn]

We do not have a Cleveland 2nd round pick or one of our own.
(not that I know of)

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by sunsfn
We do not have a Cleveland 2nd round pick or one of our own.
(not that I know of)

I'm guessing he is trying to use some far distant 2nd round pick. They have such trivial value in such deals I can't see what the point of worrying about them is.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Foyle has had innumerable opportunities to show he is capable of being a starter and has never really been all that impressive.

And has White been all that impressive?

I would take Adonal Foyle over White on any days of the week and twice on Sunday.

Foyle is a better defender and shotblocker.

 

[Joe Mama]

I think it would take a lot more than Cleveland's future first-round pick and a second-round pick to get Brendan Haywood. I do like Haywood though.

IMO the only reason to dump Jahidi White and pay to move him with cash or draft picks is if they really believe they have a good shot at Kobe Bryant. Otherwise I don't see a free-agent is some are worth the money White is making. Dampier might be the exception.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by hcsilla
And has White been all that impressive?

I would take Adonal Foyle over White on any days of the week and twice on Sunday.

Foyle is a better defender and shotblocker.

Maybe you are right, but he did not impress me the times he played against the Suns. He has done very little since returning from his injury and has averaged only 8.3 minutes a game in 20 games. Going for Foyle would mean gambling on a guy who may not play up to his career stats (the same could be said about Keon Clark).

At this point we know White is healthy. We do not know Foyle is going to healthy. If GS would let him go in a year they are trying to unload Dampier would not encourage me to make a run at Foyle. Foyle made $4.4 million this year.

My feeling is that White needs to lose about 20 pounds to improve his quickness and make it easier to run the floor. He also needs to spend the summer improving his ball handling skills (catching and passing). His stats are similar to those of Dampier just a few years ago. I honestly feel White has the potential of being a very useful player.

IN any case, White has only one more year on his contract. I would rather wait a year and use the cap space for a potential starter than to sign a long term contract with a backup player like Foyle.

 

[elindholm]

My feeling is that White needs to lose about 20 pounds to improve his quickness and make it easier to run the floor. He also needs to spend the summer improving his ball handling skills (catching and passing).

Are there precedents for historically heavy, short, small-handed centers being able to accomplish those things at age 28? Not that come to mind.

You're consistently down on Voskuhl because, in your view, his physical limitations cap his potential for improvement. Why don't you hold White to the same standard? Just because he's stronger? White right now is basically a kinder, gentler version of Danny Fortson. Useful, sure, but beyond that, I'm skeptical.

Both of them are decent backup-level players right now, and that's about it. I see no reason at all to hold higher hopes for White than for Voskuhl, especially when Voskuhl is almost two years younger and has been in the league only half as long.

Ambition won't make White quicker or better with the ball any more than it will make Voskuhl taller or, uh, whatever else it is that you think he should be from a physical standpoint. Longer-armed, I suppose. Voskuhl certainly can get stronger, rather more easily than White can get lighter, if I had to guess.

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Dampier, Camby and Okur are all going to make more than White at $5.9 million.

Well I will just lay back and when it is time I am going to say "I TOLD YOU SO".

 

[elindholm]

Well I will just lay back and when it is time I am going to say "I TOLD YOU SO".

Heh, it's a date! I think Dampier and Camby will get more for sure, absolutely. So the challenge is on!

Okur is more questionable. So far in his career, his production has dropped off as each season has progressed, and he also hasn't fared especially well when given heavy minutes (more than about 25 per game). And now that he seems to have an attitude problem as well, I think he may find himself not quite such a target after all. I'll say right now that I hope the Suns do not wind up with Okur for anything more than the MLE -- and if that means not having him at all, that's perfectly fine with me.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
My feeling is that White needs to lose about 20 pounds to improve his quickness and make it easier to run the floor. He also needs to spend the summer improving his ball handling skills (catching and passing).

Are there precedents for historically heavy, short, small-handed centers being able to accomplish those things at age 28? Not that come to mind.

You're consistently down on Voskuhl because, in your view, his physical limitations cap his potential for improvement. Why don't you hold White to the same standard? Just because he's stronger? White right now is basically a kinder, gentler version of Danny Fortson. Useful, sure, but beyond that, I'm skeptical.

Both of them are decent backup-level players right now, and that's about it. I see no reason at all to hold higher hopes for White than for Voskuhl, especially when Voskuhl is almost two years younger and has been in the league only half as long.

Ambition won't make White quicker or better with the ball any more than it will make Voskuhl taller or, uh, whatever else it is that you think he should be from a physical standpoint. Longer-armed, I suppose. Voskuhl certainly can get stronger, rather more easily than White can get lighter, if I had to guess.

Dampier is a guy whose numbers were not that impressive until he was almost 30.

Why do I hold more hope for White than Voskuhl to become and adquate starting center? He has games like against Memphis when he grabbed 13 rebounds in 24 minutes. Voskuhl broke double digits in rebounds only twice and those were games when he played 10 minutes more than White did against Memphis.

As for experience, this is Voskuhl's third full season. But due to injuries, White is in only his fourth season of more than 20 games himself. In addition, the skills coaching in Washington left a great deal to be desired.

I keep hoping the Voskuhl will get stronger. But I had the same hope last season and nothing happened over the summer. Voskuhl developed a jump shot, but remains unable to defense the paint without help.

At worst, both centers are inadequate for what the Suns will need to be a contender. I have said that innumerable times. But I think White can get somewhat better and be useful.

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Dampier, Camby and Okur are all going to make more than White at $5.9 million.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
slinslin:
Well I will just lay back and when it is time I am going to say "I TOLD YOU SO".

Of the three, I would give the best odds that it would be Camby that would be less due to fears about his history of injuries. He MIGHT take less money the first year to get a six year deal. Dampier seems a bit less likely to take a huge two year cut considering who his agent it.

All reports are that the Pistons are certain to offer Okur more than $6 million since there are several other teams that might bid. Utah has a massive amount of cap space and Atlanta could offer a big contract as well. If negoitations with Camby get difficult, the Nuggets are likely to make a push for Okur since it would still leave them enough money to go after Kobe.

I could be wrong, but the market for centers is pretty intense.

 

[Chaplin]

All I say is that we BETTER not offer Marcus Camby a 6-year deal.

 

[elindholm]

Dampier is a guy whose numbers were not that impressive until he was almost 30.

You keep saying this, and I keep correcting it. Which one of us will blink first?

Dampier's numbers this season are almost identical to what he posted in '97-'98, his first year with the Warriors. The only differences are more rebounds (which are partly a function of who else is on the team) and improved FG% (which is partly a function of maturity, and indeed noteworthy, but hardly enough by itself to constitute a big difference in overall numbers).

 

[elindholm]

Voskuhl ... remains unable to defense the paint without help.

This is your other favorite refrain. When I press you for evidence, you point to his low blocked-shot rate (which is not really relevant with respect to needing "help"), his problems dealing with Shaquille O'Neal (join the club, little Jake), or the fact that he's often out of position double-teaming away from the basket (which is a coaching problem, not Voskuhl's individual defense problem). Duncan has said that Voskuhl is one of the better defenders against him, and my impression is that he usually holds his own defensively against the league's second-tier centers, when given the chance.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
Voskuhl ... remains unable to defense the paint without help.

This is your other favorite refrain. When I press you for evidence, you point to his low blocked-shot rate (which is not really relevant with respect to needing "help"), his problems dealing with Shaquille O'Neal (join the club, little Jake), or the fact that he's often out of position double-teaming away from the basket (which is a coaching problem, not Voskuhl's individual defense problem). Duncan has said that Voskuhl is one of the better defenders against him, and my impression is that he usually holds his own defensively against the league's second-tier centers, when given the chance.

This is a chicken/egg issue. Do the Suns double team because Jake cannot defend the low post alone, or does Jake look bad because he has to double team and leave his man all the time.

Maybe you are right and it is all the coaches fault. But my guess is that the double team is in response to Jake's inability to defend the post and keep guards from attacking the lane.

Mark West seemed to confirm this in an interview he gave a while back. nba.com

Evan (Tempe, AZ): What positions/roles are you looking to fill this offseason with free-agency and the draft? I think a big center with a game similar to yours would be ideal.

Mark West: (10:33 PM ET ) I'm pretty sure if there's a talented big guy out there, we'll definitely look for someone that can compliment Amare on the inside. You know, someone who's a strong rebounder and can score baskets inside. Although it's going to be hard to find someone who's going to be a big time scorer and a big body. If there was, he would probably go No. 1 overall in the draft.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I am sorry George, but Mark West's interview doesn't prove anything.

GM's almost always say they want to draft size. Especially in the suns case, were they are so loaded in the back court and at the 3. The logical choice is the suns need more big bodies, and that doesn't take away from Jake at all.

He doesn't even touch on defense. He just said that the player would need to grab rebounds and score inside. Jake does that just fine.

 

[elindholm]

Also, Voskuhl is asked to double-team away from the paint. He's the one who leaves, so he's the one whose man is open. I agree that's a defensive problem, but Voskuhl can hardly be expected to guard the other team's center "straight up" if the coaching staff has him helping out on someone fifteen feet from the basket.

 

[sunsfn]

Foyle has always been an excellent shot blocker and rebounder. He scores from put backs in the paint. He is somewhat better than White, and maybe an inch taller.
Foyle was hurt this year and if the suns have a desire to sign him I am sure they will check out his health. His first game back this year was against the suns, and he and White had a battle for a couple quarters, then they took white out and they did not play against each other again.
I think Foyle is better if he is healthier, and always has been and probably always will be.

I also think that Voskuhl will improve every year. He has to get stronger and I believe he is stronger than last year.

I certainly hope they do not offer Camby a long term (4-6) year deal. Actually I do not think they will offer Camby or Dampier a contract.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by sunsfn
Foyle has always been an excellent shot blocker and rebounder. He scores from put backs in the paint. He is somewhat better than White, and maybe an inch taller.
Foyle was hurt this year and if the suns have a desire to sign him I am sure they will check out his health. His first game back this year was against the suns, and he and White had a battle for a couple quarters, then they took white out and they did not play against each other again.
I think Foyle is better if he is healthier, and always has been and probably always will be.

If he is healthy. So far he has not given much indication that he is.

I also think that Voskuhl will improve every year. He has to get stronger and I believe he is stronger than last year.

I hope so. I want him to succeed and oppose trading him. However, after games like the Memphis game, I get really concerned as the Griz guys just killed him.

I certainly hope they do not offer Camby a long term (4-6) year deal. Actually I do not think they will offer Camby or Dampier a contract.

I agree. My big concern wtih these guys is not their starting salary, but the contract length. Even four year contracts are doubtful when dealing with guys with histories of recurring injuries.

 

[PhxGametime]

Suns have 07 or 08 Cleveland 2nd Rounder from Milt Palacio trade