Ossenfort's crap drafting continued. The Athletic All Rookie Team

[GatorAZ]

It’s a low bar:
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[HairZach]

It’s a low bar:
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People will go insane playing the game of "we could have drafted X". For me the ultimate goal is consistently drafting players that actually can stay on an NFL roster. If Monti can do that the team will slowly stabilize. Right now we are really feeling the effects of the 2021 and 2022 drafts. We have Zaven Collins, Victor Dimukeje, Jesse Luketa and Trey McBride left. Only 4/15 players from those drafts made it all the way through their rookie contract.

Not to mention Keim traded away picks like candy. Remember Cody Ford for a 5th, Robbie Anderson for a 6th and 7th, Hollywood for a 1st. Terrible value, but surely those picks don't matter today, might as well swing for the fences!

 

[BACH]

While I am not sold on paying White top money, it is tough to build something more when you are having to replace what you already had.

We do not know that is being discussed and has happened behind the scenes.
Maybe Monti told White that he is done.
Maybe that they would evaluate other free agents as well.
Maybe White is asking well above market price.
Maybe they are negotiating and this is all part of White's tactic.

 

[Stout]

Here is the thing, the team can be improving despite Monti being a mediocre GM. A decently coached team and a slightly below average roster can get you around .500 in this league.

This is exactly what happened, at least on the defense. The offensive roster was plenty good.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

While I am not sold on paying White top money, it is tough to build something more when you are having to replace what you already had.

Yeah that makes sense. I'm personally not a huge fan of Kyzir, but neither do I think he's below average.

If we let him walk we better have a plan to at least replace his production (besides coaching up Krys Barnes).

 

[BritCard]

Brit, are you serious with SMB? It took him way too long to have any sort of impact. I need him replaced next year, stat. Remove him from that list and I'm good.

He had a rough start but has been more solid recently.

 

[BritCard]

He loves management. Loved Keim until it was glaringly obvious he had to go. Promotes Michael Bidwill (of all people!) as a sound leader and pillar of the community. Just brutal.

This is pure BS

 

[BritCard]

This is an absurd list.

Evan Brown - below average starter
Jonah - below average starter
Gillikin - average at best
Wilson - average at best
Fro - sometimes above average, sometimes below
SMB - lol
White - average at best

To say all these guys have been good starters is beyond ridiculous.

They are all good starters, it's just your definition of "good starter" is Saquon Barkley or Maxx Crosby.

 

[Chopper0080]

We do not know that is being discussed and has happened behind the scenes.
Maybe Monti told White that he is done.
Maybe that they would evaluate other free agents as well.
Maybe White is asking well above market price.
Maybe they are negotiating and this is all part of White's tactic.

Thank you for clarifying that none of us are team insiders.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

They are all good starters, it's just your definition of "good starter" is Saquon Barkley or Maxx Crosby.

I'm assuming you're either trolling or perhaps the word "good" means something else across the pond? A good starter means top half of the league at their position. Almost none of your list qualifies.

Please show me by any standard how any of the pu pu platter you mentioned qualify as good starters.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

I'm assuming you're either trolling or perhaps the word "good" means something else across the pond? A good starter means top half of the league at their position. Almost none of your list qualifies.

Please show me by any standard how any of the pu pu platter you mentioned qualify as good starters.

or is it. A team full of top ten talent would be great but it never really happens....the idea here is to build a foundation of solid/good young players who are cost effective, then sprinkle in the top ten talent.

I think Monti is doing a good job so far and totally get what Brit is saying.

 

[MadCardDisease]

It's literally anything that you put into more than you get out of it.

Which is pretty much everyone who is an Arizona Sports Fan

That's what I get for relying on my 18 year old son to be my "Urban Dictionary"

 

[Chris_Sanders]

That's what I get for relying on my 18 year old son to be my "Urban Dictionary"

Well he probably does have a different use for the term than a dude in his 50s (me)

 

[Dr. Jones]

I seem to repeat this in every thread......

--We do not have an owner that people want to work for.
----We get 2nd and 3rd choices for our GM's, coaching and scouting staff because of that absolute fact.

--We do not have a franchise that players want to play for.
----We have players that are being paid to play here at their market price or higher that had no other reasonable option when they chose to sign here.
----We have rookie contract players waiting to leave for better franchises or be overpaid by this 3rd-tier NFL franchise.

--IMO..... Getting upset that things continue to be the same around #BirdCity is an exercise in futility and extremely bad for anyone's mental health if they take it too seriously.


The Bidwill name is a stain on the Valley, the NFL, and this franchise. And we will never be able to shake it unless we get "Tom Brady" level lucky one year at the QB position. And even then, we would have to get "Andy Reid" level lucky at the coaching spot once we have that talent otherwise they would never choose to coach here.

The quicker you get to this reality, the faster you will be "grateful" that you get to see them 17 times each season. Any playoff game, any all-pro selection, any awesome pick in the draft, is just icing on the cake and will only last for so long.

 

[BritCard]

I'm assuming you're either trolling or perhaps the word "good" means something else across the pond? A good starter means top half of the league at their position. Almost none of your list qualifies.

Please show me by any standard how any of the pu pu platter you mentioned qualify as good starters.

You can't have a team full of FA signings that are top half of the league, but let's check shall we by the only metric that ranks players.

Evan Brown - 46th of 135. There are 64 starters so he's not top half. However, he is 27th ranked pass blocking guard, which seems pretty crucial for Kyler. And he's getting paid $2.35m. I'll take that for 27th ranked pass blocker.

Jonah Williams - 40th of 141. Again not in the top half of all tackles, but likely top 15 of right tackles. 71 overall grade, which is better than we had from RT from some time.

Blake Gillikin - 75 overall grade. 15th ranked punter. 4th best average punt distance. That's a straight up win.

Mack Wilson - 63.8 grade 90th of 189. I like Mack, I expected him to be higher, but at $4m per I think he's good value.

Froholdt - 76.1 grade. 6th ranked center in the league. Straight up win.

SMB - 56.5 grade. The worst of the bunch. I thought he was better later than early, but a fail so far.

Kyzir White - He had a poor year which is why I said he should go, but hard to say he was a bad signing at $5m per.

Have all his signing been great players, no, but I'd argue even those that have not been good have been very good value. And that's what you want from FA, because quite often you get the opposite.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You can't have a team full of FA signings that are top half of the league, but let's check shall we by the only metric that ranks players.

Evan Brown - 46th of 135. There are 64 starters so he's not top half. However, he is 27th ranked pass blocking guard, which seems pretty crucial for Kyler. And he's getting paid $2.35m. I'll take that for 27th ranked pass blocker.

Jonah Williams - 40th of 141. Again not in the top half of all tackles, but likely top 15 of right tackles. 71 overall grade, which is better than we had from RT from some time.

Blake Gillikin - 75 overall grade. 15th ranked punter. 4th best average punt distance. That's a straight up win.

Mack Wilson - 63.8 grade 90th of 189. I like Mack, I expected him to be higher, but at $4m per I think he's good value.

Froholdt - 76.1 grade. 6th ranked center in the league. Straight up win.

SMB - 56.5 grade. The worst of the bunch. I thought he was better later than early, but a fail so far.

Kyzir White - He had a poor year which is why I said he should go, but hard to say he was a bad signing at $5m per.

Have all his signing been great players, no, but I'd argue even those that have not been good have been very good value. And that's what you want from FA, because quite often you get the opposite.

Ok, so you're giving me PFF rankings? And even with those rankings, our punter and center are the only ones who qualify?

 

[BritCard]

Ok, so you're giving me PFF rankings? And even with those rankings, our punter and center are the only ones who qualify?

What other rankings would you like to use? The ASUCHRIS rankings?

And no, not really. Jonah had a good year. A 71 grade is a good grade and up there in the top half of right tackles.

The others have all been solid contributors on good value deals.

FA doesn't really get much better than this TBH. You want splash players but splash signing suck far more often than not.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

What other rankings would you like to use? The ASUCHRIS rankings?

Lol, yes, outside of PFF there are only my rankings. Here's the latest feedback on PFF: One scout from a team told me, “We don’t even wipe our ass with that info. Not even a little bit.”

And no, not really. Jonah had a good year. A 71 grade is a good grade and up there in the top half of right tackles.

He was ok. Not a good starter.

The others have all been solid contributors on good value deals.

FA doesn't really get much better than this TBH. You want splash players but splash signing suck far more often than not.

You're moving the goalposts, as usual. I asked for good starters, and you showed yourself by the PFF standard that our punter and center were the only ones that followed that qualification.

The bigger issue overall is competing against teams that have many above average starters on both offense and defense, whilst we have maybe 2 on D, and maybe 2 on offense. Not great!

 

[Stout]

What other rankings would you like to use? The ASUCHRIS rankings?

And no, not really. Jonah had a good year. A 71 grade is a good grade and up there in the top half of right tackles.

The others have all been solid contributors on good value deals.

FA doesn't really get much better than this TBH. You want splash players but splash signing suck far more often than not.

He doesn't get credit for Jonah being a good grade in the top half of RTs when he barely played.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He doesn't get credit for Jonah being a good grade in the top half of RTs when he barely played.

I also think it’s a a stretch to call someone who’s dead set in the middle of RTs “good”. That’s league average.

 

[BritCard]

He doesn't get credit for Jonah being a good grade in the top half of RTs when he barely played.

Monti can't control injuries man. He's played 3 full seasons in a row, GM's don't have crystal balls.

If he had a long list of injuries and missed time then sure, but he doesn't.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Those guys were free agents - they chose to leave. Maybe because of the culture problems/lack of winning etc.

You know the facts about what Allen said. There is your press.

Oh so you’re not saying they were the cultural problem. Got it. Your post made it seem that was the case.

 

[football karma]

Monti can't control injuries man.

Monti had some bad luck. The common denominator for the 3 higher $ guys he signed was availability ---

and i think the Cards got like 8 total games out of Williams, Justin Jones and Bilal Nichols

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I do not think we would be winning more games with Murphy on this team.

Allen is another story - really sucks we couldn’t hold on to him. Keim mucked it first by not locking him in earlier. Monti if I remember showed interest, but was rebuffed. You guys discussing culture are probably half right- I think Allen more so didn’t like the culture here at that time which was a super low point for this franchise with a losers culture that was planning to start from scratch. It’s hard to blame him for wanting to bounce

Murphy would have allowed them to spend some of all that draft capital they used on corners (4 over two years, 3 of which were in the top 3 rounds) on something else we needed.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The DC named his son after White. He’s a captain. Hard to believe they don’t value him.

If White wants to leave that’s also on Monti. Recruiting and retaining free agents is part of his job.

I really don’t understand fans failing to recognize that this is a core requirement of a GM’s job description. It’s the GM’s job to figure out what buttons to push to convince players to stay or come here. Do some GMs have more difficult jobs than others based on what organizations they work for? Absolutely. But monti also gets to recruit to AZ, not Minnesota. So there are some balances in his favor as well.