OT: 30 For 30 From Elway To Marino

[NJCardFan]

Been wanting to see this and having missed it during ESPN's Christmas 30 for 30 marathon so I saw it was on Netflix(as is 30 for 30 in general). I remember this draft and I remember all the hype about Elway not wanting to go to Baltimore and threatening to play baseball. What I didn't know was the number of teams who came close to trading for him including Dallas and the Raiders. It was one of the better 30 for 30's.

 

[Darkside]

I've watched most of them, the episodes, they're pretty good. The one you mentioned, is exceptional, that was a phenomenal year for QB's. I don't know that there will ever be another year like it.

I hated Elway for what he did, just refusing to play, but it worked out, although I can never say I loved him. He had an awful completion percentage throughout his career, a stat I find important, and didn't win anything until Terrell Davis came into his life. I still find Elway to be totally over rated, but I'm probably the only one. His stats are crap, and he only excelled when he had a HOF running back.

Marino is badass though. One of my favorite QB's. He was like Peyton Manning, in that he made average dudes look HOF. He was badass. He had no players around him. No defense, no running game, no nothing. He may be the best pure passer I ever saw play football. Ever.

Elway couldn't carry Marino's jock. Couldn't carry Tarkenton, or Unitas or a lot of other people's jock either. Elway is a joke compared to those dudes. He's not even better than Otto Graham, who won all kinds of championships. Lesser than Sonny Jurgensen, YA Tittle. Some of those dudes were throwing with a bigger football, with less loft, and still completed more passes, in a day and age when throwing meant destruction to your receivers or QB.

Elway is garbage, with a piece of crap completion percentage, and only won when he had a total beast HOF RB in Davis.

(Case you didn't notice, I think Elway is a total joke as a QB)

 

[NJCardFan]

I find it interesting that you didn't find Marino overrated as he never won anything. He went to one Super Bowl, choked his way through the playoffs, and his playoff numbers are fairly pedestrian. Kurt Warner's playoff numbers blow Marino's away. Don't get me wrong, Marino was a great QB but when it came down to crunch time, he just couldn't get it done. Ironically enough, Elway was nearly traded for Montana.

That said, what I loved about the documentary is that they showed every draft pick and where they ended up in the end. We drafted Leonard Smith who was a half decent defensive back but not better than most players taken after him including Marino and Darryl Green.

 

[GatorAZ]

Elway and Marino were like Manning in the playoffs. Both pretty underwhelming.

Marino peaked early by inheriting a team that had just went to a SB and had an elite defense. Elway peaked late by getting some elite weapons on offense with offensive gurus in Shanahan/Kubiak.

 

[Darkside]

I find it interesting that you didn't find Marino overrated as he never won anything. He went to one Super Bowl, choked his way through the playoffs, and his playoff numbers are fairly pedestrian. Kurt Warner's playoff numbers blow Marino's away. Don't get me wrong, Marino was a great QB but when it came down to crunch time, he just couldn't get it done. Ironically enough, Elway was nearly traded for Montana.

That said, what I loved about the documentary is that they showed every draft pick and where they ended up in the end. We drafted Leonard Smith who was a half decent defensive back but not better than most players taken after him including Marino and Darryl Green.

It was a good documentary, but after having watched the entirety of Marino's career and that of Elway and even Warner's there's really no comparison, if we're just talking pure QB.

I don't even care what Elway won after Davis, if you watched them play, in regards to pure QB, there's no comparison.

Marino was awesome. One of the best ever. Warner was also awesome, badass, just didn't do it as long, along with the pressure that comes with it. Marino was one of the best ever, maybe the best of all time.

I find the comparison between Marino and Elway offensive frankly. Elway is a punk compared to Marino when it comes to passing. Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

You offend me, just stop. I can find QBs from many other eras that beat Elway's ass. Can't do that with Marino.

My other favorite QB, who also didn't win a SB, Dan Fouts, is also way better than Elway as a QB. Marino is better than both.

 

[ajcardfan]

It was a good documentary, but after having watched the entirety of Marino's career and that of Elway and even Warner's there's really no comparison, if we're just talking pure QB.

I don't even care what Elway won after Davis, if you watched them play, in regards to pure QB, there's no comparison.

Marino was awesome. One of the best ever. Warner was also awesome, badass, just didn't do it as long, along with the pressure that comes with it. Marino was one of the best ever, maybe the best of all time.

I find the comparison between Marino and Elway offensive frankly. Elway is a punk compared to Marino when it comes to passing. Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

You offend me, just stop. I can find QBs from many other eras that beat Elway's ass. Can't do that with Marino.

My other favorite QB, who also didn't win a SB, Dan Fouts, is also way better than Elway as a QB. Marino is better than both.

I believe Elway had the record for most 4th qtr comeback victories when he retired and he always played well in late game situations. He's the type of QB that could just kind of fart around for three quarters and then suddenly lead a couple of great drives to steal the game. Especially at Mile High.

 

[Darkside]

I believe Elway had the record for most 4th qtr comeback victories when he retired and he always played well in late game situations. He's the type of QB that could just kind of fart around for three quarters and then suddenly lead a couple of great drives to steal the game. Especially at Mile High.

My favorites are Fouts, Marino, Montana. They have the stuff that makes a QB. I have man love for Unitas. Look at what he did before any of them. He had such fundamentals, mental toughness, and accuracy, in a time when nobody was doing it.

I'm just not a fan of Elway. His numbers suck and he didn't win anything until he got a HOF RB. His accuracy sucks ass over his career.

I'm a huge stat guy and his suck. I'd take probably 20 dudes over him, maybe more. You'll never convince me he's a great QB. It's like saying Tebow sucked in games until it mattered, I don't care, doesn't make him a great QB. This is back when teams let dudes suck forever, they don't do that anymore.

Arguing that he's a better QB, a better pure passer, than Marino or Unitas or Fouts or Montana or a ton of others is a joke.

 

[Darkside]

I'd even take George Blanda over Elway. He kicked too. Extra value, save me a roster spot.

 

[ajcardfan]

Arguing that he's a better QB, a better pure passer, than Marino or Unitas or Fouts or Montana or a ton of others is a joke.

I wasn't arguing that as far as I can tell?

Personally, I think he's an asshat. He totally screwed Dan Reeves. Don't like him and never have. But, WTH, he got rings and those better passers didn't. Troy Aikman had inferior numbers to Elway and he breezed into the HOF as well.

 

[NJCardFan]

It was a good documentary, but after having watched the entirety of Marino's career and that of Elway and even Warner's there's really no comparison, if we're just talking pure QB.

I don't even care what Elway won after Davis, if you watched them play, in regards to pure QB, there's no comparison.

Marino was awesome. One of the best ever. Warner was also awesome, badass, just didn't do it as long, along with the pressure that comes with it. Marino was one of the best ever, maybe the best of all time.

I find the comparison between Marino and Elway offensive frankly. Elway is a punk compared to Marino when it comes to passing. Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

You offend me, just stop. I can find QBs from many other eras that beat Elway's ass. Can't do that with Marino.

My other favorite QB, who also didn't win a SB, Dan Fouts, is also way better than Elway as a QB. Marino is better than both.

You're letting your bias show. The old saying that stats are for losers is 100% correct. There are intangibles. Just look at The Drive. Marino never, ever had a similar drive in his career. All Marino did was put up numbers but when it came to crunch time, he simply came up short. Look at his playoff numbers. He's a career 77% rated playoff QB. Marino should have won multiple SB's but wilted when the chance presented itself. I'm not bashing him for losing to SF but he had a few other chances including losing to NE in 1985 at home, badly. Elway, on the other hand, went to 5 Super Bowls and won 2. Facts are what they are. You can throw stats at me all day but in the end it's the rings that count. There are scant few SB winning QB's who have rings in spite of themselves. Elway isn't one of them.

 

[NJCardFan]

Arguing that he's a better QB, a better pure passer, than Marino or Unitas or Fouts or Montana or a ton of others is a joke.

I don't recall anyone making that claim. There's more to the game than putting up numbers. That's why Eli Manning has more rings than his more highly touted brother.

 

[NJCardFan]

I wasn't arguing that as far as I can tell?

Personally, I think he's an asshat. He totally screwed Dan Reeves. Don't like him and never have. But, WTH, he got rings and those better passers didn't. Troy Aikman had inferior numbers to Elway and he breezed into the HOF as well.

Winning 3 Super Bowls in 4 season will do that. Personally, I couldn't care less about stats. The only stat that counts is wins. If Ryan Lindley wins us a Super Bowl, every one of us will build a shrine to him and we all know it. Also, no unbiased fan can honestly say Elway sucked. You don't suck and go to 5 Super Bowls. You can go all Ferregamo and go to a SB but you don't suck and go to 5 and be the 1st QB to do so(Brady being the only other).

 

[GatorAZ]

Elway and Big Ben are in the same category for me. Really good but not elite.

Aikman is seen as so overrated that he may actually be somewhat underrated. The numbers were never great but his leadership and toughness were legendary. Dallas had immense talent but they also has massive personalities and egos. Many Cowboy players credit him with being the real coach of that third SB team and say it's almost like he had a phycologist degree managing players.

 

[Brak]

I remember Marino's career mainly for 2 things - that we was CONSTANTLY yelling at teammates, and for the grass-stained white jersey he has as a souvenir from his ONE SB appearance, where Montana and the pre-Rice 49ers buried him alive.

 

[Skumbag]

Was Robert Horry a better small forward than Dominique Wilkins because he got 7 rings to Wilkins' zero? I don't think so.

 

[NJCardFan]

Was Robert Horry a better small forward than Dominique Wilkins because he got 7 rings to Wilkins' zero? I don't think so.

Is Robert Horry the quarterback of his team or in his case the play maker? No, he was a role player who happened to be on the right teams at the right time but thank you for comparing apples to carriage bolts here.