OT: Is Derek Anderson worth 2 first round picks?

[dreamcastrocks]

My thoughts as well. There isnt a team in the league that is going to give the Browns a 1st and 3rd round pick for DA, even more so for any team that is in the top 10 that can pick and choice and groom a QB of their own.

Top 10 picks just are not traded in this day and age. Costs way to much to get that pick and costs way to much for that player selected.

I totally agree. I would be surprised if they can get a 3rd for him. No team will match the 1st and 3rd tender.

 

[Russ Smith]

joeschmo, do you know the details of Quinn's contract? I was under the impression the Browns built themselves several outs into the deal, making Quinn tradeable after year three without much damage to the CAP.

I think a good chunk of Quinn's early wages are subject to playing time, starts made and things like that. Then, parts of the deal void after year three if untriggered. Does this make sense?

Wasn't there something like this in Wadsworth's deal that allowed us to opt out early?

Isn't that why Leinart's deal hurt our cap this year when Green played him right away, kicking in huge bonuses that never would have been earned if Matt had sat and learned, as planned?

Not sure of any of this. Do you know more?

By the way, I stand by my earlier premonition that, barring injury or sudden bad play by Anderson, Quinn will not play for Cleveland. And I like Quinn a lot more than most of you.

You just can't bench a young player playing as well as Anderson is, to gamble on an unproven player in Quinn. Only the San Diego GM does something like that.

his entire contract is only worth 20 million, 7.75 guaranteed could reach 30 million with incentives which he's obviously not going to hit this year.

I don't know the bonus but it does seem that because he fell he might be the rare first round pick QB who can be traded somewhat early in his deal, especially with the cap going up every year right now?

I doubt it though they traded next years pick to get Quinn so they're going to have to REALLY love Anderson to commit to keeping him and moving Quinn.

 

[joeshmo]

joeschmo, do you know the details of Quinn's contract? I was under the impression the Browns built themselves several outs into the deal, making Quinn tradeable after year three without much damage to the CAP.

I think a good chunk of Quinn's early wages are subject to playing time, starts made and things like that. Then, parts of the deal void after year three if untriggered. Does this make sense?

Wasn't there something like this in Wadsworth's deal that allowed us to opt out early?

Isn't that why Leinart's deal hurt our cap this year when Green played him right away, kicking in huge bonuses that never would have been earned if Matt had sat and learned, as planned?

Not sure of any of this. Do you know more?

By the way, I stand by my earlier premonition that, barring injury or sudden bad play by Anderson, Quinn will not play for Cleveland. And I like Quinn a lot more than most of you.

You just can't bench a young player playing as well as Anderson is, to gamble on an unproven player in Quinn. Only the San Diego GM does something like that.

You are correct all the way around. Some Tidbits on some of it though.

Matts Deal - His bonuses that kicked in were bonuses but it wasnt huge(off top of my head it was 2.25 Mill), most of his deal is still made up of the signing bonus. Since he didnt play much this year his cap number will be lower then it was this season. Incentives and escalators not reached becuase of lack of playing time. It will also be harder to reach incentives and escalators that are base on performing for more then one season which would be added on to later years of the deal.

Bradys deal - He can be traded at any time but Cleveland better be ready for a cap hit of pro rated signing bonus not yet paid. If traded in the 2008 offseason Browns lose 6.4 Mill. in cap space. Thats just his signing bonus the still owe for cap purposes, but I think he also gets a roster bonus March 1st that would also be dead cap space if traded.

 

[abomb]

Conventional wisdom says "No".

 

[Camshaft]

Quinn's contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2964653

It's a flexible contract for both Quinn and the Browns. A 6-7 mil cap hit is affordable these days, so Quinn is possible trade bait.

 

[joeshmo]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2964653

It's a flexible contract for both Quinn and the Browns. A 6-7 mil cap hit is affordable these days, so Quinn is possible trade bait.

Since when is a 6-7 Mill cap hit for a player that wont be on your team affordable these days? That will be 5.5% of the cap in 2008. That is the cost of a pro bowl player or two. Average of top 5 salaries of postions listed below.

Wide receivers: $7,613,000
Cornerbacks: $7,790,000
Linebackers: $7,206,000
Running backs: $6,999,000
Defensive tackles: $6,775,000
Safeties: $4,490,000
Tight ends: $4,371,000
Punters and kickers: $2,078,000

 

[Camshaft]

There's not going to be a Quinn trade. My point is IF DA finishes in a progressive manner, he will be offered a contract that the Browns won't match.

At the moment, DA is on pace for a 34 TD season and 4200+ yds season. Last year's toilet training team is going to be in the playoffs if DA continues his present perfomance. DA would be a top ten QB, an acceptable reward for a top ten pick.

If the draft is held today, 7 of the first 12 selecting teams have a strong need at QB. IMO, one of them will accept the risk of DA's future performance over the risky investment of a first round QB.

 

[Russ Smith]

There's not going to be a Quinn trade. My point is IF DA finishes in a progressive manner, he will be offered a contract that the Browns won't match.

At the moment, DA is on pace for a 34 TD season and 4200+ yds season. Last year's toilet training team is going to be in the playoffs if DA continues his present perfomance. DA would be a top ten QB, an acceptable reward for a top ten pick.

If the draft is held today, 7 of the first 12 selecting teams have a strong need at QB. IMO, one of them will accept the risk of DA's future performance over the risky investment of a first round QB.

Who do the Browns prefer long term though? In the end do you really pick your QB because he makes too much money(Quinn) to trade easily?

 

[Jetstream Green]

I don't care for Quinn, but the Browns should be estatic they found a good QB no matter how they got him. Having Quinn could be a bonus much like what already has been mentioned that this reflects the SD situation when they had Rivers and Brees.

 

[joeshmo]

There's not going to be a Quinn trade. My point is IF DA finishes in a progressive manner, he will be offered a contract that the Browns won't match.

At the moment, DA is on pace for a 34 TD season and 4200+ yds season. Last year's toilet training team is going to be in the playoffs if DA continues his present perfomance. DA would be a top ten QB, an acceptable reward for a top ten pick.

If the draft is held today, 7 of the first 12 selecting teams have a strong need at QB. IMO, one of them will accept the risk of DA's future performance over the risky investment of a first round QB.

If you think a team will give up a top 12 pick and a 3rd round pick for a 1 year wonder with weapons and OL around him then pass what you are smoking this way. There hasnt been a player traded for a top 10 draft pick since 1998 when Sean Gilbert was traded.

 

[Camshaft]

1998 is not that long ago. The Gilbert transaction hasn't reached puberty.

Affordable implies acceptable cost/benefit.

What is the top 5 avg salary for a QB?

At least DA performs with good players. Look at how many 1st round QBs don't perform with good players.

No, I don't smoke.

 

[Skkorpion]

Hey, camshaft, good arguments. You should post more.

 

[Southpaw]

Maybe I am brain farting, but I can't remember anyone getting traded for a 1st round draft choice, let alone 2. Does anyone else?

 

[joeshmo]

1998 is not that long ago. The Gilbert transaction hasn't reached puberty.

Affordable implies acceptable cost/benefit.

What is the top 5 avg salary for a QB?

At least DA performs with good players. Look at how many 1st round QBs don't perform with good players.

No, I don't smoke.

So paying 7 Mill for a player that is not on your team while losing the cost benefit of getting another player or two is acceptable in what league?.

And 10 Years is a lifetime in the NFL. We have gone through 2 different collective bargaining agreements since then. Players have come on gone. Considering the average career lifespan of the NFL player is something like under 5 years. 1998 is a lifetime ago.

 

[joeshmo]

Maybe I am brain farting, but I can't remember anyone getting traded for a 1st round draft choice, let alone 2. Does anyone else?

Hasnt happened for what will be 10 years this coming draft.

As for being traded for a 1st and a 3rd you have to go further then that.

Since the RFA tenders have been updated to include the 1st and 3rd rounder compensation it has never happened, and never will happen.

 

[Totally_Red]

Maybe I am brain farting, but I can't remember anyone getting traded for a 1st round draft choice, let alone 2. Does anyone else?

If memory serves, the Boys gave up two first-rounders for Joey Galloway way back when. (1999 or so)

The Titans gave up a very late first for Kevin Carter. The Chiefs traded the #12 overall pick for Trent Green. Those trades happened in the same year, 2001 I believe. (The Rams ended up with Dameon Lewis, Adam Archuleta, and Ryan Pickett that year, none of whom are still on their roster. Talk about bad drafting.)

The Seahawks gave up their first pick last year for Deon Branch.

The Falcons traded a first for John Abraham a couple years ago.

And the Niners gave up next years first for what I do not recall.

 

[joeshmo]

If memory serves, the Boys gave up two first-rounders for Joey Galloway way back when. (1999 or so)

It was 2000 and was the first and only Franchise player to ever be traded for 2 first rounder compensation.

The Titans gave up a very late first for Kevin Carter. The Chiefs traded the #12 overall pick for Trent Green. Those trades happened in the same year, 2001 I believe. (The Rams ended up with Dameon Lewis, Adam Archuleta, and Ryan Pickett that year, none of whom are still on their roster. Talk about bad drafting.)

The Green trade was for QB Trent Green, a 5th rounder and St. Louis's agreement to not match the Chiefs' offer sheet to WR/KR Tony Horne.

The Seahawks gave up their first pick last year for Deon Branch.

The Falcons traded a first for John Abraham a couple years ago.

Along with the Carter trade they were all late round 1st rounders for players that had more then 1 good season and considered yearly pro bowlers at the time.

And the Niners gave up next years first for what I do not recall.

They moved up in the 1st to draft Staley.