OT: The trade deadline watch thread. 02/06/25

[Mainstreet]

I think we would have had to include Dunn to get a player that might help us at the 4 or 5 spot and I don't think there were was a player out there that would have made us true contenders. So the last thing I want is a futile attempt to improve now at the cost of our future. But the way this front office has operated since Ish took over suggested we were going to once again take a huge swing at a pitch that's bounced 5 times before reaching the plate. But despite all the rumors, we didn't swing. So, to me, that's a great thing.

I seem to be one of the few who isn't all in on the blame JJ game. I'm not defending this front office, they've made some really stupid decisions the past couple of years. If it's JJ making those decisions, we need him gone as soon as possible. But, if it's someone else (as I believe it is), we still need JJ gone but it won't accomplish much of anything. Not until we get rid of whoever is in Ishbia's ear.

I wouldn't have traded Dunn or more than one first round pick unless there was something spectacular on the table… and that wasn't Butler.

However, even a modest trade for Jonas Valanciunas would have made the Suns a possible playoff team or at least made them watchable.

I'm not sure what the Suns are now. They may not even be a play-in team. It's hard to get excited about the ho-hum manner the current team plays.

 

[Big Al]

If we were 20 games into the season maybe, but we are past half way, outside the playoffs and have a brutally difficult schedule the rest of the way.

If we can't even get up enough to beat the Blazers when we badly need wins, I just don't see it.

Gambo said no matter what happens the Suns will not go into tank mode. That is not on the table. They will be competitive no matter what. They will look at deals to keep the team competitive.

Gambo said no matter what happens the Suns will not go into tank mode. That is not on the table. They will be competitive no matter what. They will look at deals to keep the team competitive.

Yeah exactly when is this Suns competitive spirit is going surface & kick in? We couldn't get Butler but we got Cody Martin a 6'6" small forward.

Lakers got Charlotte's 7'0 starting center Mark Williams and the Suns got Charlotte' 7"0" back up Center Nic Richardson although he has some good qualities

And we know it is hard to make deals when your are as cash committed as the Suns are. Suns are punishing us. I had hope but it's fading as of today. Suns players maybe are lacking heart.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think we would have had to include Dunn to get a player that might help us at the 4 or 5 spot and I don't think there were was a player out there that would have made us true contenders. So the last thing I want is a futile attempt to improve now at the cost of our future. But the way this front office has operated since Ish took over suggested we were going to once again take a huge swing at a pitch that's bounced 5 times before reaching the plate. But despite all the rumors, we didn't swing. So, to me, that's a great thing.

I seem to be one of the few who isn't all in on the blame JJ game. I'm not defending this front office, they've made some really stupid decisions the past couple of years. If it's JJ making those decisions, we need him gone as soon as possible. But, if it's someone else (as I believe it is), we still need JJ gone but it won't accomplish much of anything. Not until we get rid of whoever is in Ishbia's ear.

We didn't swing but we had the opportunity to move KD and start inching our way back but decided to appease him. That shows a lack of gumption from the front office to tell the players that they don't call the shots. If KD, Book, and Beal all want to be here then they would have played better together and not put the franchise in the spot it's in. Beal is the only one who can contractually stop trades but he didn't, KD did. If it was Ishbia or Jones who gave Durant that power, they're fools. I'm leaning towards JJ but Ishbia definitely bears some responsibility as well. I'd say 70/30 but obviously Ishbia isn't going anywhere so he needs to surround himself with better voices.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd say this should be a reality check to those who think Ishbia will continue to spend frivolously to contend or compete. This trade signals otherwise. They have focused on financial savings over competitive roster construction.

If the Suns players play uninspired and ownership has chosen saving money over roster construction, what do the diehard fans do for the rest of the season?

They can't even look forward to a rebuild or a run in the playoffs.

The Suns lost me at the 2023 NBA trade deadline and have done nothing to repair the damage.

 

[SirStefan32]

As I view it, the Suns had three basic options approaching the trade deadline.

1. Make a trade to improve the team, preferably at the 4/5 position, so they could at least pretend to be a serious playoff team.

2. Start trading off assets to prepare for a rebuild, partial or full, to prepare for the future.

3. Do nothing. Actually, I think the Suns did worse by dumping Nurkic' salary… not even bothering to replace the vacancy in the front court.

I could have respected the first two options, but I never suspected the Suns would choose the third position.

Throwing in the towel without addressing the problem is unacceptable.

Replacing James Jones as the Suns GM might be the only mitigating factor. I no longer trust his judgment in making player personnel decisions.

I am not sure that's what they did. It's quite possible that there was simply no trade available that they could realistically make to improve. I think the second option would be a mistake at this point. Why rush and not simply take your time and do that during the off season? I am as disappointed as anyone, but realistically, I don't think there was much they could do.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am not sure that's what they did. It's quite possible that there was simply no trade available that they could realistically make to improve. I think the second option would be a mistake at this point. Why rush and not simply take your time and do that during the off season? I am as disappointed as anyone, but realistically, I don't think there was much they could do.

Minimally, I think the Suns could have added a center like Jonas Valanciunas.

Many teams contending for a playoff spot went out and improved their roster. A salary dump was the best the Suns could do?

 

[SirStefan32]

Minimally, I think the Suns could have added a center like Jonas Valanciunas.

Many teams contending for a playoff spot went out and improved their roster. A salary dump was the best the Suns could do?

We don't know if Washington would have taken anything the Suns had for Jonas. Even assuming they would have, do you really think Jonas at $10M/ year would make a difference this and next season? Salary dump is not a bad thing. I'd have to look at the numbers closer, but I think that it's possible for the Suns to get under the second apron for next year. I don't think Ishbia is cheap. This wasn't a salary dump for the sake of saving money.
I count about 202M in salaries right now assuming both new guys are let go. I think second apron next season will be about 207M. To be fair, all that is for nine contracts, so I would need to look at some details about how it all works, but it seems possible, if not likely.

 

[Hoop Head]

Minimally, I think the Suns could have added a center like Jonas Valanciunas.

Many teams contending for a playoff spot went out and improved their roster. A salary dump was the best the Suns could do?

Rumor was the trade was there, Nurk for Jonas. Why it didn't happen, I have my guess and the players we received from Charlotte align with that guess. We added 2 Unathletic 3 & below average D wings. Who seems obsessed with signing guys like that? Hint, he fit that mold as a player and he now sits in the Suns front office between 9am to 5pm because he doesn't believe GM'ing is a 24 hour job.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Rumor was the trade was there, Nurk for Jonas. Why it didn't happen, I have my guess and the players we received from Charlotte align with that guess. We added 2 Unathletic 3 & below average D wings. Who seems obsessed with signing guys like that? Hint, he fit that mold as a player and he now sits in the Suns front office between 9am to 5pm because he doesn't believe GM'ing is a 24 hour job.

I don't know, I just assumed we wouldn't meet the price for Jonas. If I were trading JV for Nurk I'm not sure I'd do it even for two low value draft picks let alone one. And the trash we received in the Nurk trade supports that IMO.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't know, I just assumed we wouldn't meet the price for Jonas. If I were trading JV for Nurk I'm not sure I'd do it even for two low value draft picks let alone one. And the trash we received in the Nurk trade supports that IMO.

JV makes $10 million this year and his salary next year isn't guaranteed. So it'd be about the same cost wise as what we did only we'd have a real C behind Richards. Jonas is a better shooter than Nurk was so he might provide more of what Bud wants. I don't like Plumlee. He tries but he's a negative on the floor with his lack of BB IQ and athleticism.

If the cost was the same, I'd do the JV trade easy.

 

[Superbone]

We didn't swing but we had the opportunity to move KD and start inching our way back but decided to appease him.

I don't know that that is true. My impression is the Warriors wanted assurances that KD wanted to be there and re-sign with them but he made it clear that he didn't want to go back to the Warriors.

 

[AzStevenCal]

JV makes $10 million this year and his salary next year isn't guaranteed. So it'd be about the same cost wise as what we did only we'd have a real C behind Richards. Jonas is a better shooter than Nurk was so he might provide more of what Bud wants. I don't like Plumlee. He tries but he's a negative on the floor with his lack of BB IQ and athleticism.

If the cost was the same, I'd do the JV trade easy.

So would I but I'd want a couple of our picks to make that deal if I were Washington and I wouldn't want that deal bad enough to give up 2 picks.

 

[elindholm]

I am as disappointed as anyone, but realistically, I don't think there was much they could do.

Exactly. This is what some of us said right after the Durant trade. When you max out your payroll and give away all of your draft picks, you're very limited in what kinds of moves you can make. The Suns painted themselves into a corner and will be stuck there for several years.

 

[JRakes]

We didn't swing but we had the opportunity to move KD and start inching our way back but decided to appease him. That shows a lack of gumption from the front office to tell the players that they don't call the shots. If KD, Book, and Beal all want to be here then they would have played better together and not put the franchise in the spot it's in. Beal is the only one who can contractually stop trades but he didn't, KD did. If it was Ishbia or Jones who gave Durant that power, they're fools. I'm leaning towards JJ but Ishbia definitely bears some responsibility as well. I'd say 70/30 but obviously Ishbia isn't going anywhere so he needs to surround himself with better voices.

Doesn’t Durant have a no trade clause?

 

[Hoop Head]

Doesn’t Durant have a no trade clause?

Nope. Only 2 players in the entire NBA have a no trade clause, Lebron and Beal.

Durant has another year on his deal also so the idea he could nix a trade with very little leverage is odd. A player asking for an extension, like Jimmy Butler, had leverage because his deal was expiring at seasons end and he had a player option for $50 million for next season. So he could have been a real hindrance in Miami if they didn't move him. That option allowed him leverage as well because not many teams wanted him if he could bolt at season's end.

 

[Big Al]

I

Minimally, I think the Suns could have added a center like Jonas Valanciunas.

Many teams contending for a playoff spot went out and improved their roster. A salary dump was the best the Suns could do?

Yeah it appears salary dump was their only priority. Improving the roster personnel wasn't or couldn't be done by the front office as ownership weren't aggressive at the trade dead line due in part by self inflicted lack of draft pick assets * salary restrictions.

LA & Boston know talent when they see it & can raid & rob other teams of players like no other but the Suns FO don't have that skill. Boston Celtics 18 chips & Lakers 17 championships know what the goal is. Suns haven't figured it out yet.

I glad Suns didn't offer Miami a crazy deal for the 35+ year old Butler like the Suns did with the Nets for Durant. Although the Suns do need a dog type in your face player on this roster like Butler.

We all want the Suns to be a nice mixed group of young & veteran talent and be under the Cap today and with our own picks. But will it ever happen?. Talents like Copper Flagg isn't even on our wish list because of bad moves. Man it would great to have a Copper Flagg type rookie on the Suns. Instead we are outside looking in.

 

[Phrazbit]

Exactly. This is what some of us said right after the Durant trade. When you max out your payroll and give away all of your draft picks, you're very limited in what kinds of moves you can make. The Suns painted themselves into a corner and will be stuck there for several years.

Yup. Once we made that deal we locked ourselves into a roster with almost no hope of actually competing and very limited options to alter it. The Ayton and Beal trades did their damage as well, but they were nails in the coffin, moves made with limited capital and out of desperation.

As limited as their options were, coming out of this deadline having given away another year of our own draft control with absolutely nothing to show for it is egregious. That 2031 pick dump is insanity given the status of the franchise.

Why not wait until you know you have a real deal in place? This team is beyond incompetent right now. Way worse than Sarver's front office ever was, it really hurts to say it, but Ishbia's free wheeling with the cap and our picks have done more damage than Sarver's cheapness and awful GMing did and in a really short window. Sarver slowly killed a contender over the course of 5 years. Ishbia killed one in literal hours and he's done nothing but dig the grave deeper in the years since.

 

[Yuma]

I wouldn't have traded Dunn or more than one first round pick unless there was something spectacular on the table… and that wasn't Butler.

However, even a modest trade for Jonas Valanciunas would have made the Suns a possible playoff team or at least made them watchable.

I'm not sure what the Suns are now. They may not even be a play-in team. It's hard to get excited about the ho-hum manner the current team plays.

I saw an ESPN analyst that said Suns fans shouldn't be too excited about Valanciunas, because his play has fallen off a cliff since the playoffs a couple seasons ago where he looked good. Then the other analyst pointed out that in big games they sit him the whole 4th quarters if not the whole game. I think it would have been just a bigger Nurkic from the way they made it sound. We probably dodged a bullet on that one.